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Author Topic: Coming Very Soon, a real Bitcoin you can hold! (and is worth 1 BTC)  (Read 8322 times)
casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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August 19, 2011, 05:34:53 PM
 #21

I think there will probably never a need to tear off and read the key.

I actually hope that people do occasionally test the coins.  It's an integrity check for the whole system and discourages fraud and counterfeiting.  I intend to sell these in bulk packages of "n+1", such as packs of 21, 51, and 101, encouraging buyers to choose one of the coins at random and rip it open to test it.

These coins hold value and are meant as a physical btc exchange medium. Once the BTC is revealed and withdrawn, these coin's only value is its artistic+metal value. Thought there should be a way (like a serial number), for the holder to verify through your website, that the coin is not easily counter-feit and the key is valid.

Each hologram has a factory-printed serial number which is actually just the first 8 characters of the bitcoin address for the coin.  The verification will be possible through any block explorer.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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August 19, 2011, 05:52:15 PM
 #22

Price subject to revision?  So a Bitcoin will be pegged to a Bitcoin of a different value?  So, one of these Bitcoins that is worth 1 BTC can also be worth a different amount than 1 BTC?  This is all getting very confusing.  "Hey!  I have 20 BTC! They are worth 15.5 BTC!"

I'm guessing he's talking about the 0.15 portion that covers the cost to make the coins.

But if they drop below 1 BTC, I'll take em all!
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August 19, 2011, 05:54:42 PM
 #23

Price subject to revision?  So a Bitcoin will be pegged to a Bitcoin of a different value?  So, one of these Bitcoins that is worth 1 BTC can also be worth a different amount than 1 BTC?  This is all getting very confusing.  "Hey!  I have 20 BTC! They are worth 15.5 BTC!"

I'm guessing he's talking about the 0.15 portion that covers the cost to make the coins.

But if they drop below 1 BTC, I'll take em all!

I hope, but he said the price is subject to revision due to Bitcoin price fluctuations.  I assume that means volatility.

Edit:  Oops.  Duh.

casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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August 19, 2011, 06:02:29 PM
 #24

By the way, the private key inside the coin is represented as 22 characters, rather than 50+.  To get the real private key, simply take the SHA256 hash of the characters inside the coin.  The characters are legible to the eye, and not any sort of QR code etc.  The reduced character count keeps it legible, but were it a QR code, it would drop the density and make it more readable.

The Casascius Bitcoin Utility can do this conversion and reveal the private key and public address, and hopefully the standard will be adopted by others as well (it's pretty simple and straightforward, and also includes a simple check digit scheme to prevent typos).

Sample: (formatted this way because it fits nicely on a circular insert)

SP8uj
59ZK24
jMZdhN
1ezw1

Casascius Bitcoin Utility gives a matching private key and bitcoin address: 5JjDdAyDmwCsuDLgcd6aPdpS7kbPLE63pArUZPSYzLRkUHe3vp9 and 1GcJ96oXeaFzEZLox1VfjHbdYtzrSUC54

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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August 19, 2011, 06:20:10 PM
 #25

By the way, the private key inside the coin is represented as 22 characters, rather than 50+.  To get the real private key, simply take the SHA256 hash of the characters inside the coin.  The characters are legible to the eye, and not any sort of QR code etc.  The reduced character count keeps it legible, but were it a QR code, it would drop the density and make it more readable.

The Casascius Bitcoin Utility can do this conversion and reveal the private key and public address, and hopefully the standard will be adopted by others as well (it's pretty simple and straightforward, and also includes a simple check digit scheme to prevent typos).

Sample: (formatted this way because it fits nicely on a circular insert)

SP8uj
59ZK24
jMZdhN
1ezw1

Casascius Bitcoin Utility gives a matching private key and bitcoin address: 5JjDdAyDmwCsuDLgcd6aPdpS7kbPLE63pArUZPSYzLRkUHe3vp9 and 1GcJ96oXeaFzEZLox1VfjHbdYtzrSUC54

I'm still a little confused with this bitbill and bitcoin coin things... when you GET one of these things, and you want to actually use the value and put it into your wallet, how do you do it?  I only see the option to send coins and receiving coins is done automatically... I'm on Win 7 client.  Where do you enter this public and private key?



 

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August 19, 2011, 07:15:04 PM
 #26

+1
I think, physical bitcoins should remain decentralized and controlled by me only. They shouldn't be a part of some service or bank during their lifetime, except our blockchain. Can bitcoin exist without wallet.dat file? If not, where's the wallet.dat for this bitcoin? Excuse me if I lack some technical knowledge, please explain.
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August 19, 2011, 07:20:10 PM
 #27

Or wait.. is the private key just the text that you save as the wallet.dat file? and it will have 1btc in it..... still confused as to how this works


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August 19, 2011, 07:27:42 PM
 #28

II don't think so, wallet is much heavier. OK, what's private key?
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August 19, 2011, 07:34:39 PM
 #29

what happens once the Value from the coin is redeemed and used?

dose the coin self-destruct?  

maybe there should be no key on the coin at all!
only a promises that if you send back the coin(s), you can exchange them to what ever currency you want.
when the coin is sent back to you, you'll pay them and sell the coin again.

having "no longer valid coins" in the system is kinda sucks.

my 2 bitcents

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August 19, 2011, 07:40:41 PM
 #30

Call me dumb but i don't get the hologram/private key thing...
If the coin holds the private key, what prevents someone from reading it, sell the coin, and move the BTC away after it's sold? :-/
Can someone explain please?

They would have to destructively tear off the hologram to read the key. These holograms tear in a tamper evident pattern.
D'Oh...now i get it. The hologram is a sticker and covers the private key... i had some sort of hologram directly lasered on the coin's surface in my mind...you know, to make it look pretty Roll Eyes

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August 19, 2011, 07:44:29 PM
 #31

yeah and a coin with a cannabis-plant for holland!

Ill buy it!

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moOo


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August 19, 2011, 07:46:47 PM
 #32

Or wait.. is the private key just the text that you save as the wallet.dat file? and it will have 1btc in it..... still confused as to how this works



pywallet will do it.. I suspect a future client will do it


but I suspect casascius might know the best ways, as he has had the paper wallets for a long time now.

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August 19, 2011, 08:00:14 PM
 #33

If you create a wallet, save the private and public key then shutdown and delete your wallet.  Now send it a BTC to the public address the Bitcoin network will process this transaction.

Later you go and create a wallet importing your previous private key, when the wallet finishes processing the block chain database you will have a shiny new BTC in the wallet.

This works on the same concept.

Pro's - ease of mind to people, it starts to feel more like the "real" money they use every day.

Con's -  It could be a con (after customer receives goods, the manufacturer transfers the BTC back because they still had the private key.
            Reportedly easy to counterfeit by creating your own custom holograms that are identical or near enough most wouldn't catch the difference.
            As from the above you could spend the same coin in multiple places and bypassing the safeguards of the Bitcoin network.


I think these are great innovations (Bitbill as well) combined they equate almost perfectly to today's monetary trading :-D ... as with BTC digital wallets they just have to address and ease security concerns and they would make for very solid business :-D
Thank you, I'm beginning to understand. Great! I think, counterfeiting is not a big problem: there always were fake money, it will not be some bad feature of bitcoin itself. But of course it must be a method to check if the coin is not fake. A detector!
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August 19, 2011, 08:23:13 PM
 #34

about the double spending and counterfeiting.

this isnt quite fool proof but does help a ton

Quote
The first 8 characters of the public Bitcoin address are visible on the outside, pre-printed on the hologram by the hologram manufacturer.

most addies can be verified by block explorer with just 8 chars.  You could at least see if right at that moment there was exactly 1 coin in there.

Now If I was a store.... I would break it open, import the key to a temporary wallet, and send that money immediately to a permanent wallet.

This is so if he did actually counterfeit the entire coin, and still controls the private keys on his machine at home, the merchant can still get paid right away.

there might still be a small window.. due to the time it takes to get confirmations, but hardly a window very large for him to run home and quickly do a double spend. I'm not sure how that all works so cant say for sure but it adds a layer of difficulty if merchants destroy them immediately.



which would be good for casascius's bottom line..

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August 19, 2011, 09:02:32 PM
 #35

about the double spending and counterfeiting.

this isnt quite fool proof but does help a ton

Quote
The first 8 characters of the public Bitcoin address are visible on the outside, pre-printed on the hologram by the hologram manufacturer.

most addies can be verified by block explorer with just 8 chars.  You could at least see if right at that moment there was exactly 1 coin in there.

Now If I was a store.... I would break it open, import the key to a temporary wallet, and send that money immediately to a permanent wallet.

This is so if he did actually counterfeit the entire coin, and still controls the private keys on his machine at home, the merchant can still get paid right away.

there might still be a small window.. due to the time it takes to get confirmations, but hardly a window very large for him to run home and quickly do a double spend. I'm not sure how that all works so cant say for sure but it adds a layer of difficulty if merchants destroy them immediately.



which would be good for casascius's bottom line..



" I would break it open, import the key to a temporary wallet, and send that money immediately to a permanent wallet."


Sorry to still be so dense about this..... but how do you go about "importing the key to a temporary wallet" ?

Am I missing something... I have the windows 7 client...  is this only a linux thing?  I see no option to import keys or scan key or manually enter a key... I am still lost as to how I get the 1 btc from the bitbill or bitcoin coin to my actual wallet that I use....


http://blackout.com
Insane writings for an Outsane world: http://blackoutsblog.com

Blackout Radio on android or iphone DL TuneIn APP & search for Blackout Radio http://tunein.com/tuner/?StationId=136506

https://secure.btcontilt.com/register.php?referred=Blackout (BTC Poker)
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August 19, 2011, 09:14:57 PM
 #36

about the double spending and counterfeiting.

this isnt quite fool proof but does help a ton

Quote
The first 8 characters of the public Bitcoin address are visible on the outside, pre-printed on the hologram by the hologram manufacturer.

most addies can be verified by block explorer with just 8 chars.  You could at least see if right at that moment there was exactly 1 coin in there.

Now If I was a store.... I would break it open, import the key to a temporary wallet, and send that money immediately to a permanent wallet.

This is so if he did actually counterfeit the entire coin, and still controls the private keys on his machine at home, the merchant can still get paid right away.

there might still be a small window.. due to the time it takes to get confirmations, but hardly a window very large for him to run home and quickly do a double spend. I'm not sure how that all works so cant say for sure but it adds a layer of difficulty if merchants destroy them immediately.



which would be good for casascius's bottom line..



" I would break it open, import the key to a temporary wallet, and send that money immediately to a permanent wallet."


Sorry to still be so dense about this..... but how do you go about "importing the key to a temporary wallet" ?

Am I missing something... I have the windows 7 client...  is this only a linux thing?  I see no option to import keys or scan key or manually enter a key... I am still lost as to how I get the 1 btc from the bitbill or bitcoin coin to my actual wallet that I use....


You can import keys with pywallet

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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August 19, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
 #37

Because Bitcoin is projected to deflate in the future, I don't know how well any of these "tangible" Bitcoin projects will do. What happens when Bitcoins are worth "thousands", how are you going to get change back for that coin? A deflationary system would only have a chance to work in the digital world, since a deflationary system will always require you to break off from what you already have.

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August 19, 2011, 11:45:01 PM
 #38

The potential future issue of having a single tangible bitcoin to spend when its value has become high is not much different from the issue of wanting to buy a soda and just having a hundred dollar bill in your pocket. Assuming that the vendor will accept such a valuable item in the first place, they need to give you change. They might give you change in the form of tangible bitcents, bitdimes, etc. that would presumably be created if the value of a bitcoin goes through the roof and tangible coins become popular. Or they might transfer the change electronically. Or they might decline to accept it and ask you to go change it out for smaller denominations, just as a soda seller might decline to accept a hundred dollar bill.

Personally, I would have marked the private key as a QR code instead of or in addition to an alphanumeric form. In any case, I am interested in seeing how this new coin turns out.
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August 20, 2011, 12:21:15 AM
 #39

Portable coins are great for promotion  Cool
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firstbits.com/1ce5j


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August 20, 2011, 12:21:41 AM
 #40

For the visible public key, you should just use the address' firstbits.

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