We are at "THE" ATH

[SuperHakka]

the rats thing was just an analogy he used to explain what an S curve is it wasn't to compare bitcoin. You need to give it a chance and watch further were he analyses Twitter and Facebook Vertical growth period compared to bitcoin. The price is irrelevant to this topic, what you were concerned about is market saturation / peak growth a point which we haven't reached yet with Bitcoin.

vertical growth compared to bitcoin? bitcoin hasn't had any vertical growth. did you see my chart that I posted in my last post? how do you know we are not at saturation yet? just because your auntie and grandma don't use bitcoin then you assume we are not at saturation. Breaking news bud, they are never going to use bitcoin    if you seriously thnk they will, then you need to dunk your head a few times in bucket of iced water and then we continue below ok?

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[Lloydie]

the rats thing was just an analogy he used to explain what an S curve is it wasn't to compare bitcoin. You need to give it a chance and watch further were he analyses Twitter and Facebook Vertical growth period compared to bitcoin. The price is irrelevant to this topic, what you were concerned about is market saturation / peak growth a point which we haven't reached yet with Bitcoin.

vertical growth compared to bitcoin? bitcoin hasn't had any vertical growth. did you see my chart that I posted in my last post? how do you know we are not at saturation yet? just because your auntie and grandma don't use bitcoin then you assume we are not at saturation. Breaking news bud, they are never going to use bitcoin    if you seriously thnk they will, then you need to dunk your head a few times in bucket of iced water and then we continue below ok?

FUD

See https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-total?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

[Ibian]

no fud, just another troll who happens to have more than five posts. no subtlety at all.

[GigaCoin]

the rats thing was just an analogy he used to explain what an S curve is it wasn't to compare bitcoin. You need to give it a chance and watch further were he analyses Twitter and Facebook Vertical growth period compared to bitcoin. The price is irrelevant to this topic, what you were concerned about is market saturation / peak growth a point which we haven't reached yet with Bitcoin.

vertical growth compared to bitcoin? bitcoin hasn't had any vertical growth. did you see my chart that I posted in my last post? how do you know we are not at saturation yet? just because your auntie and grandma don't use bitcoin then you assume we are not at saturation. Breaking news bud, they are never going to use bitcoin    if you seriously thnk they will, then you need to dunk your head a few times in bucket of iced water and then we continue below ok?

- Exactly, Bitcoin hasn't witnessed any vertical growth, because we haven't seen that level of growth it "yet"
- Infrastructure developments and Large scale investments are JUST getting started, we haven't witnessed years and years of investments & infrastructure development.
- Awarness is still low, adoption even lower how can it be the end? Bitcoin provides too many opportunities against traditional money systems and transfer that can't be ignored.
- From an investment asset perspective, there is still huge room for price and demand growth. Second market fund is only the start, funds all around the world will pop up (most other assets are dead with low returns).
- Yes Bitcoin value can be killed, but only by external factors mainly due to complete government ban, hopefully it ends with the Chinese (this is always a lingering risk that we have to accept)


Personally i think we're going to see Bitcoin's vertical Growth in 2014-2015, we haven't reached peak / saturation yet as much as it might feel to anyone holding Bitcoin at the moment.

[SuperHakka]

no fud, just another troll who happens to have more than five posts. no subtlety at all.

well fud you, and fud you too lloydie

[wachtwoord]

I think AMWAY fell due to the amount of typo's in your OP.

tut tut attacking the message and not the messenger now are we yip yip  

I think you mean the other way around.  But anyway, I don't quite understand the message.  What if we've reached bitcoin's saturation point?  Well, then we've reached the saturation point.  I don't know what else can be said about it.  I guess, if this market cap is the end point, then I expect bitcoin will slowly devalue over time since it's not large enough and deep enough to be a reliable store of value, etc, etc.

I like having Proudhon as the voice of reason. Everyone will be converted the same way sooner or later

Resistance is futile! (and foolish)

[zby]

There are two questions.  First is when bitcoin reaches a saturation point - does it mean that its value will now fade to 0? Dollar has reached its saturation point long ago - but it is still worth something. It all depends on how much commerce will the bitcoin universe support - without commerce, at the saturation point the value of bitcoin system as a whole will quite quickly fall down - because of the huge electricity costs. But with commerce there will be much value generated from it. Personally I am a skeptic on this one - I don't see many compelling arguments to use bitcoin in commerce. But it is for example useful for finance startups to work around the red tape - of course that can happen only as long as the regulators don't put new red tape around bitcoin. The second question is if the saturation point is now - I don't know, but I expect yet one wave - mostly fueled by financial guys trying out this new toy.

[GeniuSxBoY]

Compare apples to lemons much, OP?

[SuperHakka]

Compare apples to lemons much, OP?

look here genius, everybody knows that amway and bitcoin are different setups, i was referring to the pych of the people involved, ie the same blind faith shown by amway robots and bitcoiners moonriders. capiche now?

[piramida]

But the faith is different, you can either believe in some marketing bullshit or solid math. Quite different things you know; I won't believe any human and I don't recommend that you do, they lie. But 2+2 stays 4 regardless of humans wishes, so it's pretty safe to believe it'll still be 4 tomorrow. Capiche?

[SuperHakka]

But the faith is different, you can either believe in some marketing bullshit or solid math. Quite different things you know; I won't believe any human and I don't recommend that you do, they lie. But 2+2 stays 4 regardless of humans wishes, so it's pretty safe to believe it'll still be 4 tomorrow. Capiche?

i capiche baby, but you confer perfect maths to the whole bitcoin agenda. only certain parts of bitcoin are perfect in the laws of maths, ie the hashing process. however there are many non-mathematical reasons why bitcoin can go the same way of amway which i alluded to my post earlier, ie, the human factors of the genral public not adopting; You try explaing the math beauty that is bitcoin to the unshaven. also dont forget that bitcoin might be a perfect mathematical idea executed imperfectly. 51% anyone?

[WompRat]

The market cap of Bitcoin is still tiny.   $7.5 billion is nothing in financial terms.  In the UK alone banker's will most likely be receiving a share of a Christmas bonus pool of around £15 billion.  Goldman Sachs alone pays around $15 billion globally in bonuses.  I don't know if bankers will invest more in Bitcoin next year, but it surely gives an indication as to how small Bitcoin would appear to them at this 'ATH'.

[windjc]

Did the OP just compare Amway - a multi-level marketing company that has been around 60 years to Bitcoin, a 5 year old disruptive technology?

Bwahaahhahaahahahaha. 

Yeah, lets compare IBM to the internet.

Discuss.

[amencon]

While it is possible that Bitcoin is at it's adoption saturation point, I don't see what your post really has to do about it.

Seems to boil down to "hey guys this other thing had people that believed it would see massive adoption (JUST LIKE BITCOIN), but didn't, therefore somehow this lends credence to the theory that Bitcoin also won't see more adoption!".

Everything gains it's own level of adoption mostly independent of each other.  Unless you can correlate AMWAY and Bitcoin in some way this post looks like nonsense.

In fact the idea and concept of multi-level marketing (the AMWAY "altcoins" so to speak) is in fact thriving to this day.  As a business owner I've been tricked (or tried to be tricked) into attending meetings for Herbalife, World Financial Group, Quixtar, Organo Gold Coffee, Acai Berry Bullshit, Primerica etc. a countless number of times.  Everyone has a "business proposition" for you out there. 

If anything I'd say that if something as sleazy as MLM can gain such widespread adoption, and we want to bizarrely correlate this reality with Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is looking better than ever!

[oda.krell]

Honest question, please answer to the best of your knowledge OP:

With which volume was this amway thing (never heard of it, probably an American thing) trading at its peak?

Bitcoin is in the ballpark of 6B USD yearly. That's well below the trading volume the stock of a multinational company sees, but a figure that should give you an impression that a lot of the comparisons that are thrown around here probably don't fit.

So maybe Amway was in that range as well, would be interesting to hear that from you OP. But my point is this: I'm not saying that Bitcoin will succeed for sure. But it already reached a size that makes it difficult to compare to pretty much any phenomenon I know about... not even the often refered to Dutch tulip mania qualifies, because that was (to my knowledge) in the end restricted to the national market of the NL, not a global phenomenon.

In other words, even if Bitcoin fails, it will create its *own* point of reference... nothing in the history of finance accurately compares to it.

[SuperHakka]

Honest question, please answer to the best of your knowledge OP:

With which volume was this amway thing (never heard of it, probably an American thing) trading at its peak?

From my memory, i think Amway at its peak was one of the largest if not the largest privately held company in the US. its turnover was well into the billions.

[notme]

Honest question, please answer to the best of your knowledge OP:

With which volume was this amway thing (never heard of it, probably an American thing) trading at its peak?

From my memory, i think Amway at its peak was one of the largest if not the largest privately held company in the US. its turnover was well into the billions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

In 2012, their annual revenue was $11.3B.

[freethink2013]

I remember years ago a work pal of mine said a friend of his might "have a bit of work for you." I went to meet the guy genuinely thinking it was some sort of actual gig. It wasn't it was talk of downlines and incredible earning etc. So annoying. It was more me trying to deprogram the amway guy in the end. All I kept saying to him was "how much have you actually earned so far" and he kept going on about how much he would earn if he had more people in his down line.

In the end I just walked out but he insisted he gave me some cds to listen too. Listened to about a minute. The saddest thing about it all was him contacting me to ask for the cds back.

[DieJohnny]

Amway sucked because their products were limited, their prices were too high, their marketing plan was full of double speak.

Bitcoin sucks because its product is limited, its prices are too high, and this forum is full of double speak.

Yes they are exactly alike

[Hyena]

You're not taking into account the Terence Mckenna's Timewave Theory. Time is speeding up! Things that took 10 years before are now taking just 5 and so on.