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Author Topic: [OPEN LETTER] to Thomas Nasakioto  (Read 2888 times)
smoothie
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August 19, 2011, 09:17:34 PM
 #1

LINK: https://ixcoin.org/forum/index.php?topic=52.0


Thiriel, I'm not quite sure how allocating the bounties to myself would make Ixcoin more transparent.

Either way, the bounties/source code/wiki/forum are all public. I'd be happy to hear any suggestions as to how we can make Ixcons more transparent.

Perhaps we could do a network restart where no ixcoins are pemined and some actual changes that mean something in the source code are modified to give them value. This would make things more transparent because then you are giving everyone equal opportunity to mine ixcoins as opposed to giving yourself a huge advantage prior to public release.

That would be fair and transparent. Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.

If this is not a money/power grab then you would be okay with restarting the network with zero premined coins and start the network off at a higher difficulty giving ixcoins more rarity because of how difficult they will be to mine them. Say the start difficulty was 10,000 instead of 1.

You would gain more interest in your project if everything I listed above was executed and the network was restarted.

But then again, your motives for having this network will show based on how you do or do not respond to this posting. Everyone else is watching too.

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August 19, 2011, 09:42:31 PM
 #2

Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.
Do said people also stay away from Bitcoin, given that Satoshi probably owns 1.5 million BTC?

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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August 19, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
 #3

Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.
Do said people also stay away from Bitcoin, given that Satoshi probably owns 1.5 million BTC?

Good point. Only difference is that Satoshi actually created bitcoin and Thomas copied bitcoin.

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August 19, 2011, 11:03:49 PM
 #4

If you had any kind of investment in ixcoin your opinion might hold some value. 
Judging by your relentless trolling and general disdain toward ixcoin, smoothie you are being completely asinine.

You are correct, I do not have any investment in ixcoin give the CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

I am wanting to see how reasonable Thomas is willing to be to offer a fair network start without premined coins and ZERO advantages or changes that hold ANY value to be considered WORTH anything.

I would be crazy to want to invest anything for a long period of time into a network which adds NO value to the original bitcoin client.

At the current block rate the next difficulty adjustment will occur in 14 days. So those of you who are still mining ixcoins will be mining at a loss for at least the next 14 days as the network speed holds steady at a low rate.

How am I being unreasonable to ask the tough questions like why premien 580k coins which have ZERO value and hold less than half of them up for bounties in which work that has value by the community should be exchanged for these things which have no value?

If ixcoins offered anything but a power grab and early adopter opportunity to the very few that got in (mostly Thomas) I might consider speaking for it as opposed to against it.

Ultimately the life span of this network is determined by people like me who reside in the community who are watching what goes on. If none of us choose to invest and speak against it the project is doomed to fail given it offers nothing of potential value over the original bitcoin client.

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August 19, 2011, 11:23:20 PM
 #5

Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.
Do said people also stay away from Bitcoin, given that Satoshi probably owns 1.5 million BTC?
I read the thread you read, all it states is that 1.5 million BTC were mined in 2009. Are you saying that Satoshi is the only 2009 miner? Seriously? Come on...
Moreover, as NO FUCKING BLOCK was premined it is absolutely impossible to know how many blocks Satoshi did mine, and we just don't care because the point is that if YOU started to mine on 1/3/2009, you would have at least as many bitcoins as Satoshi
Mad not to be an early adopter? Don't say it's Satoshi's fault

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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August 19, 2011, 11:31:49 PM
 #6

Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.
Do said people also stay away from Bitcoin, given that Satoshi probably owns 1.5 million BTC?
I read the thread you read, all it states is that 1.5 million BTC were mined in 2009. Are you saying that Satoshi is the only 2009 miner? Seriously? Come on...
Moreover, as NO FUCKING BLOCK was premined it is absolutely impossible to know how many blocks Satoshi did mine, and we just don't care because the point is that if YOU started to mine on 1/3/2009, you would have at least as many bitcoins as Satoshi
Mad not to be an early adopter? Don't say it's Satoshi's fault

+1

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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August 19, 2011, 11:33:51 PM
 #7

I read the thread you read, all it states is that 1.5 million BTC were mined in 2009. Are you saying that Satoshi is the only 2009 miner? Seriously? Come on...
Moreover, as NO FUCKING BLOCK was premined it is absolutely impossible to know how many blocks Satoshi did mine, and we just don't care because the point is that if YOU started to mine on 1/3/2009, you would have at least as many bitcoins as Satoshi
Mad not to be an early adopter? Don't say it's Satoshi's fault
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37333.msg458441#msg458441

What does your post have to do with the fact that if Satoshi owns any amount as significant as the Ixcoin owner does (which is very probable), he could equally crash the market on his whim? How is the situation any different?

Until then many of us will likely stay away from ixcoins given that you could potentially crash the exchange(s) with your large amount of ixcoins in one sitting.

Are you mad because you can’t handle economic realities without resorting to moral/philosophical nonsense and stupid accusations?

Also, one key difference:

We know exactly which blocks have been pre-mined by the Ixcoin creator and can track those coins. We can see if they are sent somewhere else than an address for a bounty. It’s transparent, and if he fucks up once, Ixcoin will be done.

PS: I don’t own any more Ixcoins and I own a larger number of Bitcoins, so don’t come with arguments of bias etc.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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August 19, 2011, 11:46:01 PM
 #8

LINK: https://ixcoin.org/forum/index.php?topic=67.0

If you had any kind of investment in ixcoin your opinion might hold some value. 
Judging by your relentless trolling and general disdain toward ixcoin, smoothie you are being completely asinine.

You are correct, I do not have any investment in ixcoin give the CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

I am wanting to see how reasonable Thomas is willing to be to offer a fair network start without premined coins and ZERO advantages or changes that hold ANY value to be considered WORTH anything.

I would be crazy to want to invest anything for a long period of time into a network which adds NO value to the original bitcoin client.

At the current block rate the next difficulty adjustment will occur in 14 days. So those of you who are still mining ixcoins will be mining at a loss for at least the next 14 days as the network speed holds steady at a low rate.

How am I being unreasonable to ask the tough questions like why premien 580k coins which have ZERO value and hold less than half of them up for bounties in which work that has value by the community should be exchanged for these things which have no value?

If ixcoins offered anything but a power grab and early adopter opportunity to the very few that got in (mostly Thomas) I might consider speaking for it as opposed to against it.

Ultimately the life span of this network is determined by people like me who reside in the community who are watching what goes on. If none of us choose to invest and speak against it the project is doomed to fail given it offers nothing of potential value over the original bitcoin client.

EDIT: One last thing. You thought I was trolling? Just look at all the postings that your "moderator" Oldminer made on the bitcoin forums about i0coin. So you're going to tell me that my trolling in response to his trolling is bad yet because he moderates this forum I am the only one that should change his outlook and attitude? How about you make appropriate comments about Oldminer too concerning his trolling? Or does that make ixcoins look bad?

And if you did not notice my trolling was directed at Oldminer and his inability to explain why ixcoin has ANY value.

After going through what you have posted to and about Oldminer as well as ixcoin, here on this forum, the bitcointalk forum and the i0coin forum. I don't honestly think anyone is capable of changing your stance in this matter. It is in my opinion there is no resolve for you or anyone else who holds similar views as you about ixcoin or even bitcoin. ixcoin does have the benefit of a shield against newcomers who are skeptical of bitcoin. Skepticism is a never-ending barrage of questions, and to entertain you with any actual answer to your requests would certainly mean to welcome more skepticism in an area where personal research into matters is necessary. I'm sorry I can't give you an answer.

How does ixcoin shield against nercomers who are skeptical of bitcoin?

How would someone be skeptical of bitcoin but not a copycat currency like ixcoin?

How is that a benefit?

I have still yet to hear any portion of the "development" of ixcoin which would add any value to its release as a new currency. This sheild you talk about I'm still confused about.

What FEATURES were added that give ixcoin more functionality/security/operability over bitcoin to give it value?

Funny how you say there is no answer you could give to convince me. That basically sums up what ixcoin is a worthless copycat version of bitcoin which adds nothing of value to the original client.

If someone can answer the question of value ixcoins add I will likely be more apt to change my views.

But in addition that still does not remove the GLARING fact that Thomas has premined 580k coins (~ 1/3 of the total mined) and has offered less than half of them up for bounties in exchange for people's time and effort (which have value) for ixcoins which still presents no new value over the original.

I sure hope you have not invested much into ixcoins because if these GLARING questions are not answered here soon, this network and currency are doomed to fail very shortly.

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August 19, 2011, 11:58:58 PM
 #9

LINK: https://ixcoin.org/forum/index.php?topic=67.msg290#msg290

All this time you have spent questioning answers given to you,
you surely could have completed several bounties without any expense to you.
Just complete a bounty smoothie.

Um no. Why should I spend any more time than necessary to research the inner workings of a new cryptocurrency and why I should invest?

Your bounties are worthless in terms of bitcoin value on the ixcoin exchange.

I0coins are trading at close to 3 times the value of ixcoins and actually are newer and have added functionality to the original.

Why not, you answer my questions if you so believe in this new currency??

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August 20, 2011, 12:04:52 AM
 #10

I read the thread you read, all it states is that 1.5 million BTC were mined in 2009. Are you saying that Satoshi is the only 2009 miner? Seriously? Come on...
Moreover, as NO FUCKING BLOCK was premined it is absolutely impossible to know how many blocks Satoshi did mine, and we just don't care because the point is that if YOU started to mine on 1/3/2009, you would have at least as many bitcoins as Satoshi
Mad not to be an early adopter? Don't say it's Satoshi's fault
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37333.msg458441#msg458441

What does your post have to do with the fact that if Satoshi owns any amount as significant as the Ixcoin owner does (which is very probable), he could equally crash the market on his whim? How is the situation any different?
Satoshi might have such an amount if he was the only 2009 miner
Thomas does have it

There's always a risk of an individual owning a huge amount of a cryptocurrency, so what? Let's get back to the good old dollar?

We know exactly which blocks have been pre-mined by the Ixcoin creator and can track those coins. We can see if they are sent somewhere else than an address for a bounty. It’s transparent, and if he fucks up once, Ixcoin will be done.
I don't think tracking the outputs of 6000+ blocks is easy

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
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August 20, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
 #11

Um no. Why should I spend any more time than necessary to research the inner workings of a new cryptocurrency and why I should invest?

The sad part is we're talking about a currency where the creator didn't even do any research, or, lacked the intellectual capacity to understand any research he did.

If Thomas knew enough about code or the system to actually inspire even the smallest amount of confidence in his ability to wisely use the "bounty" money, he would not have spent months mining six thousand blocks...

He would have simply altered his fork to put a million coins in block 1, and then a smaller number in all future blocks. That would have been extremely easy for someone with even rudimentary programming skill and understanding of the system.

That it took him six thousand blocks to get the coins he wanted before anyone else got a chance proves he doesn't know what he's doing. And that is why ixcoins should be ignored: forget the initial mining, forget the questions about his motives. This would be like trusting an operating system that was coded by someone who didn't understand that computers could have different amounts of RAM.

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August 20, 2011, 12:46:35 AM
 #12

Um no. Why should I spend any more time than necessary to research the inner workings of a new cryptocurrency and why I should invest?

The sad part is we're talking about a currency where the creator didn't even do any research, or, lacked the intellectual capacity to understand any research he did.

If Thomas knew enough about code or the system to actually inspire even the smallest amount of confidence in his ability to wisely use the "bounty" money, he would not have spent months mining six thousand blocks...

He would have simply altered his fork to put a million coins in block 1, and then a smaller number in all future blocks. That would have been extremely easy for someone with even rudimentary programming skill and understanding of the system.

That it took him six thousand blocks to get the coins he wanted before anyone else got a chance proves he doesn't know what he's doing. And that is why ixcoins should be ignored: forget the initial mining, forget the questions about his motives. This would be like trusting an operating system that was coded by someone who didn't understand that computers could have different amounts of RAM.

+1

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August 20, 2011, 01:55:47 AM
 #13

Smoothie, I'm sorry to hear you take issue with the possibility that Fred and I have an incentive and might eventually make a return on Ixcoin. We are committed to making Ixcoin a success and have invested time and money towards this. For example, we just spent over $500 sponsoring the bitcoin conference to promote Ixcoin.

You might also eventually make a return yourself if you invested a handful of BTCs at Ixcoin's launch to purchase the same amount of Ixcoins we both have. The going rate was 15K IXC for 1 BTC back then. It's still very affordable right now. Or maybe you mined ten of thousands of Ixcoins during the initial mining rampup.

You feel that Ixcoin has no value? I've heard similar arguments from Bitcoin neophytes about Bitcoin. It's their perspective. I see value in Ixcoin and that's why I'm sticking with it. I see other people trading Ixcoins so apparently they see value in it too. If you don't, then please do not feel obliged to focus your energy on something you do not value.

You still did not answer my most important question:

What added value does ixcoin have over bitcoin in an attempt to get others to invest in it?

Spending $500 on advertising is your choice, but should not be by no means why anyone should invest in your currency named ixcoin.

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question above, if you have an answer that is.

Thanks for replying.

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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
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August 20, 2011, 01:56:42 AM
 #14

Could somebody tell me why BitCoin have any value at all?
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August 20, 2011, 02:03:05 AM
 #15

Could somebody tell me why BitCoin have any value at all?
Without maintaining SR?
I would really  like to hear feedback.

Bitcoin originally was created to be decentralized with no central authority. You keep your money safe without any middle man. No counterfeiting.

All of this ixcoin does as well, but that doesn't give it added value for investors to pick it over bitcoin.

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August 20, 2011, 03:44:04 AM
 #16

Ah, I get it now, smoothie heavily invested in namecoins, and now he sees the proliferation of ixcoins in the market as a direct competitor to namecoins. He likes to mention the current price of i0coins, but for some odd reason he can't justify buying any.

You've got quite a bit of presumptions here. Any links to reference that proves your statements/claims?

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August 20, 2011, 04:10:42 AM
 #17

Um no. Why should I spend any more time than necessary to research the inner workings of a new cryptocurrency and why I should invest?

The sad part is we're talking about a currency where the creator didn't even do any research, or, lacked the intellectual capacity to understand any research he did.

If Thomas knew enough about code or the system to actually inspire even the smallest amount of confidence in his ability to wisely use the "bounty" money, he would not have spent months mining six thousand blocks...

He would have simply altered his fork to put a million coins in block 1, and then a smaller number in all future blocks. That would have been extremely easy for someone with even rudimentary programming skill and understanding of the system.

That it took him six thousand blocks to get the coins he wanted before anyone else got a chance proves he doesn't know what he's doing. And that is why ixcoins should be ignored: forget the initial mining, forget the questions about his motives. This would be like trusting an operating system that was coded by someone who didn't understand that computers could have different amounts of RAM.

Not to say he has other compensating knowledge, but what is the argument here? He is running a currency. What does ability to code have to do with this? Would you hire a coder to run the FED?

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August 20, 2011, 04:28:11 AM
 #18

He is running a currency. What does ability to code have to do with this? Would you hire a coder to run the FED?

LOL!!!
Let's have Greenspan run the next forkscam.

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August 20, 2011, 05:00:55 AM
 #19

Not to say he has other compensating knowledge, but what is the argument here? He is running a currency. What does ability to code have to do with this? Would you hire a coder to run the FED?

He is running a _digital_ currency, the behavior of which is defined solely by the software he released.

He wouldn't need computer knowledge to create his own, oh, I don't know ... physical metal bus tokens. But he's not creating metal bus tokens. We're talking about a cryptographic currency.

I wouldn't hire a coder to run the FED. Unless, that is, the dollar was being replaced with a 100% computer-controlled cryptographic currency...

To put it another way: I wouldn't hire a coder to be a bank's CEO. I would hire a coder to actually handle the computerized payment system. And if a bank's senior coders were to demonstrate they didn't realize that dollar values were numeric data I'd sure as fuck take my money to another bank as fast as my two legs could bring me there.

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August 20, 2011, 08:52:56 AM
 #20

Okay, let's turn this around. To the degree you have placed any faith in bitcoin, you have done something like hiring a coder to run the FED. To me, this is analogous to hiring Bernanke to write the code for bitcoin. Here, everyone would be outraged by the latter, but not the former. Why? Because the people here are largely coders. 

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