[2BTC BOUNTY] New useless scammy blockchains

[jackjack]

We had ixcoin, now solidcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38453.msg0#new
Will this stop? Unlikely
How can we stop that?

I pledge 1BTC for a proved successful double-spend attack on solidcoin in the next 3 days
Anybody with me?

[1715614571]

1715614571

[1715614571]

1715614571

[Sukrim]

Why should we?!

If someone wants to buy these coins, they should be able to. It's not like you don't get anything or something else than expected, so I don't see a reason to call these alternative chains "scam".

There are probably a few people who profit and another few people who gamble and loose - but it's not as if they were scammed, they just took (in my opinion) very bad buying decisions.

[jackjack]

The problem is not what is the reality, but what the average joe will see: Bitcoin divided into many non understandable moneys

[Are-you-a-wizard?]

This is how I see it:

I don't have an amazing mining setup, I can make about 1BTC/day with Bitcoin at the current difficulty. So far I have made twice that in just a couple of hours with SolidCoin trading, making the coins through a combination of bounty and mining.

Do I think it will last? No.
Do I care? No.

Also note, I'm talking BTC here. I don't care for fiat money. I am making more BTC mining SolidCoin than I make mining Bitcoin directly.

[Kartoff]

We had ixcoin, now solidcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38453.msg0#new
Will this stop? Unlikely
How can we stop that?

I pledge 1BTC for a proved successful double-spend attack on solidcoin in the next 3 days
Anybody with me?

No need to stop ! It is like it should be ! Maybe you still didnt see in how many ways SolidCoin is better than BitCoin We need this to happen so better blockchain will be chosen by the most of the people regarding its positives and negatives...

And why you call SolidCoin useless when you can make payment 3 times faster than with BitCoin ? So you can go in some shop or pub or hypermarket and make payment for something you buy and it will pass for 18 minutes instead of 60 !

[SomeoneWeird]

We had ixcoin, now solidcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38453.msg0#new
Will this stop? Unlikely
How can we stop that?

I pledge 1BTC for a proved successful double-spend attack on solidcoin in the next 3 days
Anybody with me?

lawl

[julz]

...inwardly focused path Bitcoin is on thanks to its unimaginative and rigid libertarian community.

You might take heart from this perspective then: http://presentcynosure.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/bitcoin-and-ethics/

Like the author of that piece - I don't think bitcoin is represented by such a narrow part of the political spectrum. There are plenty of people who are on board for more pragmatic reasons.   

[julz]

You might take heart from this perspective then: http://presentcynosure.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/bitcoin-and-ethics/

Like the author of that piece - I don't think bitcoin is represented by such a narrow part of the political spectrum. There are plenty of people who are on board for more pragmatic reasons.   

Thank you for that. I do agree with what the author said. Is he a regular here?

I've no idea..  the article just turned up in my bitcoin googling.  There are some earlier posts on bitcoin too... all pretty good stuff.

[jackjack]

I would say if you want to offer a bounty, do it against the coin systems that are economically identical to Bitcoin and offer us no new features to see what would be good or bad in a coin system in the long run.

That's what I do, only a bouty against solidcoin (as ixcoin is already dead)
Both are the only ones I know that were just created to make their "creator" richer

[ElectricMucus]

New blockchains are awesum, they expose people not knowing even the slightest about how cryptocurrencies work 

[wareen]

...inwardly focused path Bitcoin is on thanks to its unimaginative and rigid libertarian community.

You might take heart from this perspective then: http://presentcynosure.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/bitcoin-and-ethics/

Like the author of that piece - I don't think bitcoin is represented by such a narrow part of the political spectrum. There are plenty of people who are on board for more pragmatic reasons.   

+1

Also, I wouldn't judge the Bitcoin community by the people most vocal in this forum - many of the more pragmatic/practical/productive members hardly ever post here. Bitcoin has great potential for everyone and unimaginative is probably one of the last words I would use to describe its community.

Do you really think Bitcoin is on a deadend path? c'mon

[cunicula]

This is healthy. If even inferiorcoin can make profit, people will be motivated to bring superiorcoin to the table. It's a matter of time.

[markm]

From a developer's side, I get it but from a promoter's side, good luck selling a merchant on accepting a coin that gives no benefits for spending/loaning.

Two blockchains are already doing very profitable lending, secured loans at that, so much so they are able to offer 1% per week to investors who loan them coins that they re-loan at exorbitant, but secured, rates. So it seems there isn't really anything inherent in deflationary blockchain-based currency that preclused lucrative loan businesses.

-MarkM-

[markm]

What about the arguments based on the theory that the value will increase the same over time whether or not a loan is given, and thus there is less incentive to loan? I've seen this opinion quite a lot.

There was some talk about not bothering to charge interest on the loans because the coins would, or could be caused to, increase in value by as much as the interest would have been.

But then they looked at the other side of it, borrowing coins to loan. Aha. They figured they would be more likely to be able to borrow coins if they offered interest. So, in order to attract investors so as to have more coins to loan, they eventually decided they would go ahead with the plan of charging interest.

So the poor suckers they are loaning to have to be doing something pretty darn lucrative with the borrowed coins since not only are they being charged interest but in addition the amount of stuff they will have to fork over, or the amount of service they will have to provide, in order to buy enough coins to pay the loan would be increasing even without also having interest on top of that.

So basically what you need to do this effectively is a very lucrative opportunity people need your coins to get into, and in order to be able to do it as secured loans you need to be pretty much in control of that opportunity (so you can repossess it if the debtor defaults, and easily repay your investors with the repossessed value/opportunity).

-MarkM-

[Litt]

New useless and scammy blockchains are great imo. Why? because more and more of these useless alt chain that gets created, faster and faster the previous "scammy blockchain" dies the sames death to the next upcoming "scammy blockchain". See where I'm getting at?

So far most of all these new and "scammy" alt blockchains that do not offer anything more and have not really materialized past 16k difficulty level where it's price cannot compete with btc in exchange. It then starts to die all on it's own just like ixcoin and i0coin now is.

Seems like the solution to eliminating and killing off the scammy blockchains for good is to create more and more of these useless blockchains untill all of the community's trust for a new blockchain outside of btc blockchain is gone. Just like the story of "Boy who cried wolf", at the end, only people left to mine these will be the ones trying to pump and dump these shitcoins who will then just buy/mine and dump it on themselves for time wasted. There isn't a level of trust for any new alt chains currencies right now that exists among speculators unlike bitcoin. Only reason why people even mine them is because they are also making the exchange sites themselves as well. The new blockchain may offer better exchange value at low diffculties for a short time, but the duration of time to make the profit is shrinking as well as proved with ix then i0coins. This time frame is only gonna be shorter and so on because only reason why they mine these alt chains is to trade them for bitcoins.

Just let them kill themselves off.. It seems that the alt blockchain threatening Bitcoin idea is turning out to be just a myth thus far because in reality, alt chains have yet to survive past the point where the difficulty and cost of generating these shitcoins approaches the level of btc. Noone will mine them if they can mine btc for the same amount of cost.

[Are-you-a-wizard?]

New useless and scammy blockchains are great imo. Why? because more and more of these useless alt chain that gets created, faster and faster the previous "scammy blockchain" dies the sames death to the next upcoming "scammy blockchain". See where I'm getting at?

So far most of all these new and "scammy" alt blockchains that do not offer anything more and have not really materialized past 16k difficulty level where it's price cannot compete with btc in exchange. It then starts to die all on it's own just like ixcoin and i0coin now is.

Seems like the solution to eliminating and killing off the scammy blockchains for good is to create more and more of these useless blockchains untill all of the community's trust for a new blockchain outside of btc blockchain is gone. Just like the story of "Boy who cried wolf", at the end, only people left to mine these will be the ones trying to pump and dump these shitcoins who will then just buy/mine and dump it on themselves for time wasted. There isn't a level of trust for any new alt chains currencies right now that exists among speculators unlike bitcoin. Only reason why people even mine them is because they are also making the exchange sites themselves as well. The new blockchain may offer better exchange value at low diffculties for a short time, but the duration of time to make the profit is shrinking as well as proved with ix then i0coins. This time frame is only gonna be shorter and so on because only reason why they mine these alt chains is to trade them for bitcoins.

Just let them kill themselves off.. It seems that the alt blockchain threatening Bitcoin idea is turning out to be just a myth thus far because in reality, alt chains have yet to survive past the point where the difficulty and cost of generating these shitcoins approaches the level of btc. Noone will mine them if they can mine btc for the same amount of cost.

Agree.

Also, I made my fortunes (lol) on SolidCoin. The difficulty now is 128 and it's no longer easy money.

It went from easy money to utter shit in less than 24 hours

[gw4tt]

yea, need another blockchain. Solidcoin's difficulty is too high now.

[AngelusWebDesign]

The scam gets less profitable after each cycle, as more and more people anticipate the pattern.

[Jack of Diamonds]

I'll pledge a BTC towards a successful double-spending attack on one of these new chains (ix, solid, etc).
Attacker can claim it after documenting & executing the attack in public

[BitcoinBug]

New useless and scammy blockchains are great imo. Why? because more and more of these useless alt chain that gets created, faster and faster the previous "scammy blockchain" dies the sames death to the next upcoming "scammy blockchain". See where I'm getting at?

So far most of all these new and "scammy" alt blockchains that do not offer anything more and have not really materialized past 16k difficulty level where it's price cannot compete with btc in exchange. It then starts to die all on it's own just like ixcoin and i0coin now is.

Seems like the solution to eliminating and killing off the scammy blockchains for good is to create more and more of these useless blockchains untill all of the community's trust for a new blockchain outside of btc blockchain is gone. Just like the story of "Boy who cried wolf", at the end, only people left to mine these will be the ones trying to pump and dump these shitcoins who will then just buy/mine and dump it on themselves for time wasted. There isn't a level of trust for any new alt chains currencies right now that exists among speculators unlike bitcoin. Only reason why people even mine them is because they are also making the exchange sites themselves as well. The new blockchain may offer better exchange value at low diffculties for a short time, but the duration of time to make the profit is shrinking as well as proved with ix then i0coins. This time frame is only gonna be shorter and so on because only reason why they mine these alt chains is to trade them for bitcoins.

Just let them kill themselves off.. It seems that the alt blockchain threatening Bitcoin idea is turning out to be just a myth thus far because in reality, alt chains have yet to survive past the point where the difficulty and cost of generating these shitcoins approaches the level of btc. Noone will mine them if they can mine btc for the same amount of cost.

+1

[ElectricMucus]

If these extra blockchain creators only where to lurk some more..... 

protip: namecoin is doing it right.

[dree12]

The scam gets less profitable after each cycle, as more and more people anticipate the pattern.

"Less profitable" does not mean people will stop. Look at the miners, for example.

[fcmatt]

The scam gets less profitable after each cycle, as more and more people anticipate the pattern.

"Less profitable" does not mean people will stop. Look at the miners, for example.

How about not profitable at all then? Exactly what happened with namecoin when people started realizing they
could make more via bitcoin directly.

[foggyb]

Let me clarify that statement by saying I am not against libertarians at all, but I think Bitcoin could be useful to the world in more ways than just the absolute extreme "change the entire world" way, and be accepted in the world much quicker if it weren't always promoted by people claiming it is supposed to 'destroy banks', etc. As far as I'm concerned, I hope banks use Bitcoins themselves.

Bit of a straw man there, Mathew. Libertarians are not out to destroy banks. You know better than that.

[joulesbeef]

it is really getting to me all these kids that are so hurt over the new gambling currencies.

they are like damn babies about it.

It isnt like any of these currencies did shit to you, you arent forced to mine, you arent forced to buy, then STFU about it.

the whinning is getting grating.

I made 12 coins in 12 hours on a 5770 and FO if you think I shouldnt have the right to gamble and play.. what the hell are you a farken dictator?


This is the free market, if you dont want to put your BTC or hash rate to the alternative currencies than dont.

Do you have a problem as well with all the gambling apps and games and crap that come out each day?

are you playing any of them? no? THEN QUIT CRYING AND GO BACK TO DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

None of us are trying to pay people to screw with what you are doing.. you know you are soliciting someone to break the law? a double spend is stealing. SO not only are you a winey little brat, but you are also a sleezy scummy dude., Grow the hell up and mind your own damn business.


I dont mind people warning others that is is gambling, but this sleezy whiny douchebag stuff is getting on my nerves. WOrry about your own damn life, let me worry about mine.  How would you feel if I offered a bounty to steal from you?

[fcmatt]

it is really getting to me all these kids that are so hurt over the new gambling currencies.

they are like damn babies about it.

It isnt like any of these currencies did shit to you, you arent forced to mine, you arent forced to buy, then STFU about it.

the whinning is getting grating.

I made 12 coins in 12 hours on a 5770 and FO if you think I shouldnt have the right to gamble and play.. what the hell are you a farken dictator?


This is the free market, if you dont want to put your BTC or hash rate to the alternative currencies than dont.

Do you have a problem as well with all the gambling apps and games and crap that come out each day?

are you playing any of them? no? THEN QUIT CRYING AND GO BACK TO DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

None of us are trying to pay people to screw with what you are doing.. you know you are soliciting someone to break the law? a double spend is stealing. SO not only are you a winey little brat, but you are also a sleezy scummy dude., Grow the hell up and mind your own damn business.


I dont mind people warning others that is is gambling, but this sleezy whiny douchebag stuff is getting on my nerves. WOrry about your own damn life, let me worry about mine.  How would you feel if I offered a bounty to steal from you?

perhaps the forum mods should just delete all these new block chain threads and the creators will have to spam other places to
get their "experiment" going.

and honestly... when you tell others to quit crying about it.. is that not basically a pot calling the kettle black?

[foggyb]

it is really getting to me all these kids that are so hurt over the new gambling currencies.

they are like damn babies about it.

They are babies. Lots of kids in this forum who just got weaned.

[joulesbeef]

and honestly... when you tell others to quit crying about it.. is that not basically a pot calling the kettle black?

Not when someone is offering a crook money to steal from me. No it is not. That is exactly the WRONG way to prove a security hole.

[pointbiz]

We had ixcoin, now solidcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38453.msg0#new
Will this stop? Unlikely
How can we stop that?

I pledge 1BTC for a proved successful double-spend attack on solidcoin in the next 3 days
Anybody with me?

Jackjack, you're awesome!

I keep thinking is i0 or ix the joke?

In my opinion, the largest threat to bitcoin was/is an alt chain fork. Undefended by Satoshi's code or his choice of licence. I agree with the poster who said the more scammy chains the better; I realize this is the only method that will de-legitimize them.

ix and solid are also scams on the namecoin reputation. Namecoin is genuine innovation that serves a purpose and solves a problem. It's unique and does not compete with Bitcoin.

Anyone with genuine intentions towards Bitcoin would not create a fork that directly competes with bitcoins. These are folks who want to pull a greedy scam, I don't think they are currency speculators because why would they want to fuck with the value of BTC.

If Bitcoin is analogous to gold, it may one day require a sister silver. But today it's too early for that. I hope non of these alt chains that are analogous to commodity money survives.

Bitcoin ~= commodity money
Namecoin ~= BitDNS tokens

i0coin/ixcoin/solidcoin == shit coins

Like some people suggested I won't be pointing my BTC or rigs @ shit coins

The one nice thing about shit coins is they help to demonstrate the intrinsic value of Bitcoins.

[dree12]

The scam gets less profitable after each cycle, as more and more people anticipate the pattern.

"Less profitable" does not mean people will stop. Look at the miners, for example.

How about not profitable at all then? Exactly what happened with namecoin when people started realizing they
could make more via bitcoin directly.

Gambling is not profitable at all. People haven't stopped that, last time I checked.

[joulesbeef]

if you offered a $1million  bounty to prove the bank of americans banking system was flawed.. what do you think would happen?
a bunch of people attacking their system, it doesnt matter whose money it is, and you might want to read up on your law, he is offering a bounty for the attack, he is not a security research following a code of ethics.


There very well could be legal ramifications for paying someone to destroy solid coin. But hey it isnt my ass

I screamed to high heaven that ixcoin was a scam, But I never tried to sabotage it.

Dont get me wrong, i like jackjack, he seems to be a decent enough guy, despite the heated discussion, but he is dead wrong on this. That is the absolutely wrong way to go about it. You cant publicly call for people to hack a system, if you have no part in that system.

[Jack of Diamonds]

if you offered a $1million  bounty to prove the bank of americans banking system was flawed.. what do you think would happen?
a bunch of people attacking their system, it doesnt matter whose money it is, and you might want to read up on your law, he is offering a bounty for the attack, he is not a security research following a code of ethics.


There very well could be legal ramifications for paying someone to destroy solid coin. But hey it isnt my ass

I screamed to high heaven that ixcoin was a scam, But I never tried to sabotage it.

Dont get me wrong, i like jackjack, he seems to be a decent enough guy, despite the heated discussion, but he is dead wrong on this. That is the absolutely wrong way to go about it. You cant publicly call for people to hack a system, if you have no part in that system.

Making a double spending attack on one of these whatshisname-coins is fully legal.
It can be done with coins only you own, for example. As long as you create the longest chain, your transactions become legitimate & you can reverse past transactions.

Anyone can feel free to try that on the bitcoin blockchain as well, if you have a couple million dollars lying around for hardware.
There are no legal ramifications because you are not destroying anything. The longest blockchain is only maintained by the consensus of other miners.

If you can create the longest blockchain then that one becomes legitimate & you get to decide it's history.
This is especially easy in the case of very low-difficulty blockchains like solidcoin.

A bigger miner like Vladimir or ArtForz alone could hijack the ixcoin/solidcoin blockchain within a few hours if they wanted to.

[joulesbeef]

If you can create the longest blockchain then that one becomes legitimate & you get to decide it's history.

Not sure why you cant see that is destruction.. and he isnt doing security research he is inviting people to attack the chain. which will bring a few people attacking the chain.. it doesnt matter if it is your own money, it doesnt matter if you dont mess with anything else in the chain.. you control it;s history.. you broke the chain. it is no longer trustworthy. And sure people can do this, but it is different when you call on people to do this.

What ever, It is still the wrong way to approach the "scammy coins" and I may complain and call them scammy, but I would never hire a hacker to actively make people lose money, that is just antithesis to the bitcoin community.


The thing isnt bothering you, why hire a hitman?

[julz]

Making a double spending attack on one of these whatshisname-coins is fully legal.
It can be done with coins only you own, for example. As long as you create the longest chain, your transactions become legitimate & you can reverse past transactions.

Anyone can feel free to try that on the bitcoin blockchain as well, if you have a couple million dollars lying around for hardware.
There are no legal ramifications because you are not destroying anything. The longest blockchain is only maintained by the consensus of other miners.

If you can create the longest blockchain then that one becomes legitimate & you get to decide it's history.
This is especially easy in the case of very low-difficulty blockchains like solidcoin.

A bigger miner like Vladimir or ArtForz alone could hijack the ixcoin/solidcoin blockchain within a few hours if they wanted to.

While from a technical perspective I'd like to see some double-spend attempts on an alternative chain - I don't see how you can argue it has no legal ramifications due to some implied consensus of other miners.
You may as well argue that some HTTP software 'agreed' to send you some private documents when you sent some perfectly valid HTTP requests that were crafted to take advantage.  
It's not what the protocols or systems allow - it's the intent.  

Deliberately invalidating other people's transactions that were made in good faith can't be defended on the basis that you had the technical capability to do it.

Now.. given that there is no specific company behind the chain.. so therefore no obvious terms & conditions.. it might make the case very 'interesting' and/or difficult to proceed with, but in theory any affected individual could argue that you had defrauded them.

If you could perform a double-spend against another of your own wallets, or with a party who agreed to it - then I guess that would be fine so long as you didn't invalidate any 3rd party transactions in the process.

EDIT: I guess you hinted at this with "you get to decide it's history. "     If you meant that in this history you ensured that all other legitimate transactions were maintained.. then I suppose this could be done without any 'damage'.. aside from proof that the system is vulnerable.

[fcmatt]

Just throwing this out there....

Bitcoin and others are a p2p currency that is controlled/managed by the "network".

If the "network", a majority of it, consists of one or more people working together to manage it.. well that is how it
goes. No crime was committed when the program is working as expected. It was designed this way. The minority
may get their panties in a knot with the result but they signed on knowing, in many cases, that this could happen.

So what is the problem here? What crime is being committed? Sucks to be using an insecure scammy fly by night currency eh?

It seems you have to take the bad with the good. With bitcoin it is unlikely to happen. With scamcoins it has a higher
chance of happening and the "majority of the network" is always right. Right?

[Maged]

perhaps the forum mods should just delete all these new block chain threads and the creators will have to spam other places to
get their "experiment" going.

I was in support of doing that, but we decided to just put them all in the trash binAlternate cryptocurrencies board instead. The justification (which I agree with) was that members of this forum might be interested in it. That said, no subforums for individual alternate cryptocurrencies will be created, because this is not supposed to be the primary community for these cryptocurrencies.

[Anonymous]

I'll pay a 3000 sc bounty for someone to dox the op

Lets see which gets done first.

Edit: I'll match the op on btc if you can do a proven double spend also.

[RandyFolds]

We had ixcoin, now solidcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38453.msg0#new
Will this stop? Unlikely
How can we stop that?

I pledge 1BTC for a proved successful double-spend attack on solidcoin in the next 3 days
Anybody with me?

No need to stop ! It is like it should be ! Maybe you still didnt see in how many ways SolidCoin is better than BitCoin We need this to happen so better blockchain will be chosen by the most of the people regarding its positives and negatives...

And why you call SolidCoin useless when you can make payment 3 times faster than with BitCoin---with 1/3 of the security ? So you can go in some shop or pub or hypermarket and make payment for something you buy and it will pass for 18 minutes instead of 60 !

FTFY

[pointbiz]

For educational purposes only: You cannot double spend someone else's coins. You can only change your mind and double spend your own coins if you have sufficient CPU power to build the longest chain.

[SomeoneWeird]

For educational purposes only: You cannot double spend someone else's coins. You can only change your mind and double spend your own coins if you have sufficient CPU power to build the longest chain.

Lawl

...

[jackjack]

Looks like I was not that wrong after all

[dree12]

Looks like I was not that wrong after all

In all fairness, it wasn't a double-spend attack. It did kill solidcoin (as well as ignite a licence change), though.

[jackjack]

I just meant about wanting to kill solidcoin

[RichG]

Yes, let's try to kill a dead blockchain.

[jackjack]

Yes, let's try to kill a dead blockchain.

Let's try to learn reading dates, too.

this thread is proof of haters soothsayers everywhere in timespace (even in such old topic)

yeah, but you were right with solidcoin

FTFY

[podizzle]

45k for 16btc solidcoin buy orders

dead blockchains arent worth $2000.... in 2013

[barwizi]

hahahaha, hater. wow, this must be one of the guys who ddos new coins.

[RichG]

hahahaha, hater. wow, this must be one of the guys who ddos new coins.

Why would I want to DDoS a chain? Let the users have their fun.

Sheesh.

[barwizi]

hahahaha, hater. wow, this must be one of the guys who ddos new coins.

Why would I want to DDoS a chain? Let the users have their fun.

Sheesh.

who quoted you? oy, get off my back!!!! m talking bwt the OP, wow 

[Balthazar]

Hm... "Proof of Haters"... I like this, sounds like concept of the new "Proof-of-Work" replacement

[jackjack]

hahahaha, hater. wow, this must be one of the guys who ddos new coins.

Why would I want to DDoS a chain? Let the users have their fun.

Sheesh.

who quoted you? oy, get off my back!!!! m talking bwt the OP, wow 

answering 2 years later, wow

[Eli0t]

[RichG]

LOL.

[ElectricMucus]

I hereby propose borgcoin: A a cryptocurrrency which uses multiple hashing algorithms and is generated by successful double spends on other chains.