Yeah, but there's no evidence that any religious process ever actually really achieved anything ever, other then the 2nd hand accounts of people who didn't achieve Nirvana.
Isn't that the whole point of religion? That there is a reality outside of physical human consciousness (beyond death)?
Anyway, your argument is invalidated by the opposing viewpoint (no evidence that religion HASN'T achieved anything). Of course there isn't any evidence, because that evidence would need to be located in our 4 physical dimensions.
Exactly. It can't be proven, or even understood in the conventional sense ( that would be like a knife trying to cut itself or
trying to bite ones own teeth*
) but can only be experienced directly.
And I try to avoid the use of the word "religion" in reference to such things as it tends to make one think of this or that
particular organized system of dogma derived from the type of 'second-hand' accounts dancupid mentioned...
of course the word "spiritual" is problematic so I often try to avoid it too...
Now that I think more on this it seems that the word "consciousness" can be defined many ways as well.
This link might help show what I mean by it here: The Nondual Philosophy of Franklin Merrell-Wolffhttp://www.integralscience.org/gsc/
It is certainly not the only one I could dig up to try and get across the 'mystic view' but it seems that because he was
also a mathematician and teacher of philosophy that Franklin Merrell-Wolff communicates this kinda stuff (which he directly
experienced himself) to modern western minds better than most.
And the Hare Krishna putdown is rather disappointing to see and if things are going to go that way I will just bow out of this
I have my views based on my experiences and that is good enough for me, and I am not interesting in pushing them on
anyone else, even if it was possible for me to adequately communicate such things... I just wanted to share my view on the
notion of whether machines could ever become conscious. Nothing worth getting disrespectful over I didn't think...
see that link for more info on that:
"Consciousness is original, self-existent, and constitutive of all things..."
"The Subject to Consciousness transcends the object of Consciousness..." etc.
No disrespect intended - I've spent several years involves in meditation, various Taoist practices and even Thelema for a while. By personal current belief system is that I am made out of reality and therefore I will function naturally as a consequence of that (like any other living thing). I am what I am (like a dog is a dog). Since I am already made of reality it doesn't matter much what reality actually is since I can only be the thing I already am. If I was a special enlightened being I would already be that - but I'm not. (and I like Krishna so the reference wasn't a put down - I've read the Bhagavad Gita many times)