Chargebacks

[empoweoqwj]

So lets then assume consumers aren't willing to?  Where does that leave the proposition that Bitcoin use will become widespread common currency?  I agree with the OP, chargeback is an advantage of Bitcoin that only benefits seller and as most people are buyers, the advantage is overstated.

No, the advantage is clear and huge. Chargebacks are the main vector of credit card fraud and probably the biggest source of all fraud in the world.

This leads to higher prices for goods and services which are passed directly to the consumer.

By eliminating these excessive fees, Bitcoin allows businesses to operate with much lower margins which has a massive benefit to everyone.

Furthermore, credit cards as they exist today are simply exploitive of the 99%. I own a couple simply for credit score purposes.

If you cant afford to buy something or cant be sure you trust the company you are buying from, you shouldnt be buying the product at all. Period.

Exactly. But most consumers are "protected" from knowing about chargebacks, how they work, how much they cost, how they stop people from buying things, how they increase prices. Too many people have been "educated" by credit card companies. Time for change.

I don't know how many normal people with credit cards really know about chargebacks. Most people only find out about them when something goes seriously wrong. I don't think I knew about them until I started working with e-commerce projects as a developer, and I'd had a credit card for many years before then.

I did my first chargeback last year, ~14 years after getting my first credit card. I suspect many people are like me.

Fraudsters on the other hand... it's a weapon for them!

Believe me, in the US at least, every consumer I have come across knows about chargebacks. With my domain registration biz, I have had literally hundreds of threatened chargebacks, and dozens of actual chargebacks. As a merchant, it costs me a bomb. The consumer gets away without a scratch. And this is when they've done something stupid like register a domain with the wrong spelling and only notice a few weeks later, lol. They call and threaten a chargeback if I don't give them a refund. If I do the refund, I end up paying for the domain myself. If I don't do the refund and they do the chargeback, the merchant processor charges me a $100 fee.

I don't like chargebacks

[Duane Vick]

Possible solutions that I see:

New companies can seek a bond that guarantees their transactions. This bond would have to be issued by a reputable bonds company or insurer. This gives the customer the assurance that they can make a claim against a company's bond if they fail to deliver.

Independent association that vets the reputation of a business. Sort of like the Better Business Bureau (BBB). People can register complaints against a business and the association will work towards a voluntary resolution that satisfies both parties. Companies will be rated highly if they are complaint-free, next if they resolve complaints quickly, all the way down to scammy companies with "F" ratings. Companies can advertise their ratings. Association should be funded by current bitcoin businesses who want to promote the integrity of bitcoin - based transactions and businesses.

[guybrushthreepwood]

So lets then assume consumers aren't willing to?  Where does that leave the proposition that Bitcoin use will become widespread common currency?  I agree with the OP, chargeback is an advantage of Bitcoin that only benefits seller and as most people are buyers, the advantage is overstated.

No, the advantage is clear and huge. Chargebacks are the main vector of credit card fraud and probably the biggest source of all fraud in the world.

This leads to higher prices for goods and services which are passed directly to the consumer.

By eliminating these excessive fees, Bitcoin allows businesses to operate with much lower margins which has a massive benefit to everyone.

Furthermore, credit cards as they exist today are simply exploitive of the 99%. I own a couple simply for credit score purposes.

If you cant afford to buy something or cant be sure you trust the company you are buying from, you shouldnt be buying the product at all. Period.

Exactly. But most consumers are "protected" from knowing about chargebacks, how they work, how much they cost, how they stop people from buying things, how they increase prices. Too many people have been "educated" by credit card companies. Time for change.

I don't know how many normal people with credit cards really know about chargebacks. Most people only find out about them when something goes seriously wrong. I don't think I knew about them until I started working with e-commerce projects as a developer, and I'd had a credit card for many years before then.

I did my first chargeback last year, ~14 years after getting my first credit card. I suspect many people are like me.

Fraudsters on the other hand... it's a weapon for them!

Believe me, in the US at least, every consumer I have come across knows about chargebacks. With my domain registration biz, I have had literally hundreds of threatened chargebacks, and dozens of actual chargebacks. As a merchant, it costs me a bomb. The consumer gets away without a scratch. And this is when they've done something stupid like register a domain with the wrong spelling and only notice a few weeks later, lol. They call and threaten a chargeback if I don't give them a refund. If I do the refund, I end up paying for the domain myself. If I don't do the refund and they do the chargeback, the merchant processor charges me a $100 fee.

I don't like chargebacks

It's definitely a big problem, but dealing with BTC I've seen a lot of people being scammed by comapnies not delivering the products and then the consumer is left out of pocket. It's a shit situation either way.

[empoweoqwj]

So lets then assume consumers aren't willing to?  Where does that leave the proposition that Bitcoin use will become widespread common currency?  I agree with the OP, chargeback is an advantage of Bitcoin that only benefits seller and as most people are buyers, the advantage is overstated.

No, the advantage is clear and huge. Chargebacks are the main vector of credit card fraud and probably the biggest source of all fraud in the world.

This leads to higher prices for goods and services which are passed directly to the consumer.

By eliminating these excessive fees, Bitcoin allows businesses to operate with much lower margins which has a massive benefit to everyone.

Furthermore, credit cards as they exist today are simply exploitive of the 99%. I own a couple simply for credit score purposes.

If you cant afford to buy something or cant be sure you trust the company you are buying from, you shouldnt be buying the product at all. Period.

Exactly. But most consumers are "protected" from knowing about chargebacks, how they work, how much they cost, how they stop people from buying things, how they increase prices. Too many people have been "educated" by credit card companies. Time for change.

I don't know how many normal people with credit cards really know about chargebacks. Most people only find out about them when something goes seriously wrong. I don't think I knew about them until I started working with e-commerce projects as a developer, and I'd had a credit card for many years before then.

I did my first chargeback last year, ~14 years after getting my first credit card. I suspect many people are like me.

Fraudsters on the other hand... it's a weapon for them!

Believe me, in the US at least, every consumer I have come across knows about chargebacks. With my domain registration biz, I have had literally hundreds of threatened chargebacks, and dozens of actual chargebacks. As a merchant, it costs me a bomb. The consumer gets away without a scratch. And this is when they've done something stupid like register a domain with the wrong spelling and only notice a few weeks later, lol. They call and threaten a chargeback if I don't give them a refund. If I do the refund, I end up paying for the domain myself. If I don't do the refund and they do the chargeback, the merchant processor charges me a $100 fee.

I don't like chargebacks

It's definitely a big problem, but dealing with BTC I've seen a lot of people being scammed by comapnies not delivering the products and then the consumer is left out of pocket. It's a shit situation either way.

Sure. People are getting scammed every day on these forums. Sad but true. But its because the sellers are anonymous, and the buyer pays some or all up front. People should never do that.

In the real world, where companies care about their reputation, it will be a lot less of a problem i.e. they will have a stated refund policy, which they will honour, regardless of how you pay for something.

[Nagle]

When using an irreversible payment method, consumers have to make a conscious effort to transact with businesses that have a solid history of being honest and trustworthy,

Well. that excludes every Bitcoin exchange.

or use escrow.

Bogus escrow services are a big problem. There are probably more fake ones than real ones for eBay. The various Bitcoin escrow services are rather flaky - many are run anonymously, but hold your money.

[empoweoqwj]

When using an irreversible payment method, consumers have to make a conscious effort to transact with businesses that have a solid history of being honest and trustworthy,

Well. that excludes every Bitcoin exchange.

or use escrow.

Bogus escrow services are a big problem. There are probably more fake ones than real ones for eBay. The various Bitcoin escrow services are rather flaky - many are run anonymously, but hold your money.

Nobody was suggesting using an eBay escrow service,  lol. What use would that be with bitcoins?

As you well know, there are several totally trustworthy bitcoin escrow services here at bitcointalk. Stop creating problems which don't exist.