No ROI on future Mining, its a FACT!

[heisenbit]

If you can buy hardware, you can buy BTC.  Just find a trusted escrow like John K. and then find someone to do a direct sale.

Otherwise you are going to end up spending 10k to buy 5k worth of bitcoin.

Not really. At least in my country (Argentina) you are not allowed to make wire transfers in USD unless you are paying for a contractual service or with travel purposes. The only leaphole I found in this USD shutdown is to cloud-mine, and I know for a fact that some other countries have similar situations in regards to foreign currencies.

[heisenbit]

@Entropy-uc  a significant value. Since USD is unavailable, many people turned into BTC to have savings in a currency different than ARS due to the devaluation. To give you an idea, USD has an official government exchange rate, which is 1USD=6.50ARS more or less, and then there is the "real" exchange rate, which is 1USD=10.50ARS
People are selling/buying 1BTC at 12000ARS more or less, which translates to roughly 1100USD at today's exchange rate (1BTC=800USD or so)

If you have Bitcoins, secure some buyers, come to Argentina and then convert your BTC at the "real" value, you'd still profit, all while eating good steaks, wine and women

[af_newbie]

Well for one you assume a lot about the future difficulty. Just because the difficulty is doubling every month now doesn't mean it will continue to do so. I personally don't believe we'll see 10 billion until at least june-july, and start plateauing after that.

So difficulty projections are religion now? Difficulty will be doubling every month until all 98%+ coins are mined.  Why would you think the difficulty increase would slow down?
The hardware will be produced and deployed.  Older hardware will continue to run until mining profit is there.  You honestly believe people will stop buying or manufacturers will stop making the hardware?

I think there will be more irrational actors entering bitcoin (and alt) space.  These folks will not stop buying mining hardware just because you think they should.

[ScaryHash]

It depends on what you mean by ROI, and when you expect ROI.

I'll give you a few facts, from a personal standpoint.

I got into BTC in May, total noob at it. Many people helped me on these nice forums, so I will help you, hopefully.

I decided I would buy a 7950 and a 7850 (this was middle of May, 2013). That was ~$500 bones in graphics cards (not including another computer, but I needed one anyway, so that doesn't count). Those graphics cards started hashing at about 1.6 million difficulty, and mined all summer long, for about 1.5 BTC.

Needless to say, when BTC hit about 700 in october-ish, that BTC was put to very good use.

So, ROI factor was 2x. Those graphics cards are still mining LTC right now, at a pure profit.

I'm not boasting in anyway. In fact, I wish I had gotten into BTC much earlier.

My point is, do not worry about ROI. Learn about BTC, get the miners going, learn to run them, overclock them, build some rigs, have a little fun !!! Fight the current fiat monetary system while at it ! Rejoice in rebellion ! That reminds me, I gotta send CKOlivas a donation finally....be right back.

If you constantly worry about making your money back, you might as well piss away 5k and get a Scottrade account and start gambling in the stock market. But of course, you will be supporting a corrupt and evil economic system, not digital monetary freedom.

[cp1]

I decided I would buy a 7950 and a 7850 (this was middle of May, 2013). That was ~$500 bones in graphics cards (not including another computer, but I needed one anyway, so that doesn't count). Those graphics cards started hashing at about 1.6 million difficulty, and mined all summer long, for about 1.5 BTC.

So you turned 5 BTC into 1.5 BTC?

[ScaryHash]

I decided I would buy a 7950 and a 7850 (this was middle of May, 2013). That was ~$500 bones in graphics cards (not including another computer, but I needed one anyway, so that doesn't count). Those graphics cards started hashing at about 1.6 million difficulty, and mined all summer long, for about 1.5 BTC.

So you turned 5 BTC into 1.5 BTC?

minus electricity and the value of 6 months of his labor.

Even if you just count the electricity cost as lost opportunity to buy bitcoin it's more like 8 BTC for 1.5 BTC.

But the cards could be sold for .2 BTC or so!

I don't look at it that way. The cards were also used for gaming type stuff, and I turned $500 into $1500, using my BTC hobby. Not many hobbies you can do that with.

I would have bought the cards anyway, is my point. LTC and Bitcoin is just a fun hobby, I don't think of it as "OMG, I have to have ROI" or " I cuda, shuda, wuouda bought BTC at $2/btc, and sold it at $1000/BTC".

That's just a way to give yourself headaches.

[cp1]

I don't look at it that way. The cards were also used for gaming type stuff, and I turned $500 into $1500, using my BTC hobby. Not many hobbies you can do that with.

True, if everything is free then you will make a profit.  If you view it as a hobby then you don't need to make a profit.

[N[e]wBie]

buying a miner is probably one of the best ways to launder money in the world

[ssbn506]

buying a miner is probably one of the best ways to launder money in the world

I don't know anything about laundering money but it doesn't seem like a good way to do it. Or at least no better than buying a BTC then selling that BTC to someone ells. You still have to give that stolen money to someone for the hardware then wait 6 months to get sum of it back. I would think their are much better ways.

 

[cp1]

I'm sure it's easier to use a casino to launder money.  Or HSBC if you're a terrorist.

[ssbn506]

buying a miner is probably one of the best ways to launder money in the world

I don't know anything about laundering money but it doesn't seem like a good way to do it. Or at least no better than buying a BTC then selling that BTC to someone ells. You still have to give that stolen money to someone for the hardware then wait 6 months to get sum of it back. I would think their are much better ways.

 

It's a pretty good method if you define laundering money as turning $10 000 in your pocket into $0, with some future hope it might be $4000

I wonder if every 8 days criminals get shot after they find out they overlooked difficulty changes and then learn the best way to launder money is not so good.

[tibdraw]

buying a miner is probably one of the best ways to launder money in the world

I don't know anything about laundering money but it doesn't seem like a good way to do it. Or at least no better than buying a BTC then selling that BTC to someone ells. You still have to give that stolen money to someone for the hardware then wait 6 months to get sum of it back. I would think their are much better ways.

 

It's a pretty good method if you define laundering money as turning $10 000 in your pocket into $0, with some future hope it might be $4000

I wonder if every 8 days criminals get shot after they find out they overlooked difficulty changes and then learn the best way to launder money is not so good.

hahah, if there was a "like" button on posts I would press now

[crocko]

buying a miner is probably one of the best ways to launder money in the world

You are sooo out of topic !

And FYI, mining / trading BTC and other crypto-currencies are not related to the criminal activities !

[superfastkyle]

-People will stop buying asic for any price soon. It probably won't be until after 1st gen devices can't pay for their own electric costs. Then people will stop and realize what they did. Buying gpu's for mining had little risk, which in fact ended up being practically no risk. People haven't realized that asic is not the same. Even the gpu's I bought at the peak in cost ($500 for a 5970 in late 2012 for example), I have had an opportunity to resell at almost the same cost at least once.

[rext]

once people stop investing in asics because of the electrical costs, the difficulty charts will start ranging if not it will go down just a little bit. For those with free electricity, business as usual.

[PolkRB]

Bitcoin will revolutionize not only money/markets etc, but many other aspects of our life. It will bring free abundant energy possibilities soon enough.

[e521]

Bitcoin will revolutionize not only money/markets etc, but many other aspects of our life. It will bring free abundant energy possibilities soon enough.

Bitcoin is based on PoW, how can you say that?

[krampus]

Bitcoin will revolutionize not only money/markets etc, but many other aspects of our life. It will bring free abundant energy possibilities soon enough.

Bitcoin is based on PoW, how can you say that?

Because unicorns, of course.

[PolkRB]

Bitcoin will revolutionize not only money/markets etc, but many other aspects of our life. It will bring free abundant energy possibilities soon enough.

Bitcoin is based on PoW, how can you say that?

What's PoW?

[krampus]

What's PoW?

Proof of Witchcraft, which is very well known for its energy efficiency.