Press Release: New Physical Bitcoin Goes on Sale January 2 at AlitinMint.com

[worldtreasurefinders]

I received my shipping info today, along with USPS tracking number.  I will post a picture and my overall thoughts when it arrives.

[DrahogErusiel]

This will signal a new standard in physical bitcoins.  The inaugural coin is 1.75 inches in diameter and 5 mm in thickness. Struck in two ounces of pure silver, the hefty coin dwarfs the U.S. silver dollar.

* morgan dollar

[smoothie]

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

[smoothie]

How much are these selling for?

Currently going for 2.9294 BTC each.

[htspringer]

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you verify that they are silver if you had them out of the cases?
How can anyone "verify" that something is solid silver vs silver-plated?

[smoothie]

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you verify that they are silver if you had them out of the cases?
How can anyone "verify" that something is solid silver vs silver-plated?

There are acid tests, but you could also measure the coin's weight in troy oz. Using the normal volume of silver per mass this could be established. Of course I am no expert in this area but not having access to the coin at any point prior to redeeming removes any verification of the coin being actually silver.

I'm sure there are other way to determine this.

[htspringer]

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you verify that they are silver if you had them out of the cases?
How can anyone "verify" that something is solid silver vs silver-plated?

There are acid tests, but you could also measure the coin's weight in troy oz. Using the normal volume of silver per mass this could be established. Of course I am no expert in this area but not having access to the coin at any point prior to redeeming removes any verification of the coin being actually silver.

I'm sure there are other way to determine this.

Does the "acid test" of which you speak do anything to deface the silver?  Does it determine whether it's solid silver or silver plated? 
I think your point would be more valid if these were  bullion coins. Given the value of the attached two bitcoins, it seems unlikely that someone would be attempting to defraud on the silver content of the coin.

[smoothie]

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

Just out of curiosity... How would you verify that they are silver if you had them out of the cases?
How can anyone "verify" that something is solid silver vs silver-plated?

There are acid tests, but you could also measure the coin's weight in troy oz. Using the normal volume of silver per mass this could be established. Of course I am no expert in this area but not having access to the coin at any point prior to redeeming removes any verification of the coin being actually silver.

I'm sure there are other way to determine this.

Does the "acid test" of which you speak do anything to deface the silver?  Does it determine whether it's solid silver or silver plated?  
I think your point would be more valid if these were  bullion coins. Given the value of the attached two bitcoins, it seems unlikely that someone would be attempting to defraud on the silver content of the coin.

These are bullion coins ...silver bullion to be specific based on the assay written on the coin's face.

You are speaking in terms of current silver prices. Now if silver went to the moon you would likely retract your statement as 2 oz of silver could be worth much more than $40 to $60.

My question still remains unanswered. Hopefully I will get a response from the OP.

The other issue I can see is that because said radiologist claims the casing is secure enough not to be broken with current technologies is not enough for me to believe it. I've claimed this all over this forum and in real life that talk is cheap.

Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. Now whether or not the casing mentioned does what is claimed remains to be proven publicly.

Defcon perhaps?


Edit: My comments above are basing the word BULLION on the statement of "FINE SILVER" on the coin's face. I presume this means at least .999 Fine Silver.

Let's be clear I am making no accusations here. Merely questioning the modes of verification of said claims both in the metal content and the security of the casing made by the radiologist.

[worldtreasurefinders]

If the reputation of the company is good, there's really no reason to doubt the weight and purity of the coin as stamped on the coin.

I would be interested to know if Alitin mints their own bullion, or if they source it to a third party minting service, but if the reputation of the mint is good, I see no reason to doubt the authenticity of the silver.  One nice thing about these physical bitcoins (and Casascius' bitcoins, and Lealana Litecoins) is that I can verify the balance of the coin at any time, with little difficulty.

One more thing.  Outside of a density test which most people are not equipped to do, other methods of testing are destructive to the coin, like the acid test (to test for purity) or a scratch test (to test for plating).

[htspringer]

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

There are certainly levels of tamper-resistance, and I think these coins appear far more tamper resistant than any other physical bitcoins out there. 
First, if the cases cannot be entered without breaking them, then the crook must somehow manufacture his own identical cases... That is, to say the least, an expensive proposition.
Second, if entering the case destroys the hologram and the signature and the hologram, then two additional barriers are introduced.
Third, the coins themselves are of moderately complex design...and would be far more difficult to counterfeit than most physical bitcoins.
Finally, even if a thief successfully counterfeited a case, Alitin Mint claims to have a proprietary cipher system in place where they can verify if a case is legitimate.

The only other physical bitcoin out there that appears this secure seems to be titan bitcoin.  The only drawback is that [it is my understanding] you have to concede actual ownership of the bitcoins to a third party until they are redeemed.

[smoothie]

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

There are certainly levels of tamper-resistance, and I think these coins appear far more tamper resistant than any other physical bitcoins out there.  
First, if the cases cannot be entered without breaking them, then the crook must somehow manufacture his own identical cases... That is, to say the least, an expensive proposition.
Second, if entering the case destroys the hologram and the signature and the hologram, then two additional barriers are introduced.
Third, the coins themselves are of moderately complex design...and would be far more difficult to counterfeit than most physical bitcoins.
Finally, even if a thief successfully counterfeited a case, Alitin Mint claims to have a proprietary cipher system in place where they can verify if a case is legitimate.

The only other physical bitcoin out there that appears this secure seems to be titan bitcoin.  The only drawback is that [it is my understanding] you have to concede actual ownership of the bitcoins to a third party until they are redeemed.

Keep in mind that there are other methods of "gaining access" to something without actually opening the container. Ever heard of ultrasound as one simple example?

Your second point I am not sure I follow. You say "if" but I'm not sure I read that that is what happens when opening the case.

Your third point is concerning counterfeit coins. Tampering and counterfeiting coins are two separate topics.

Your last point are just claims. I'm not saying any of the claims aren't true, but until it has been proven to be true as in the claim about the case being "tamper-proof" and the comment the radiologist made concerning current technology, are simply just that, claims without proof publicly given.

Hopefully someone can give these coins a test to different tampering mechanisms to prove or disprove said claims. As I've said, talk is cheap.

[smoothie]

If the reputation of the company is good, there's really no reason to doubt the weight and purity of the coin as stamped on the coin.

I would be interested to know if Alitin mints their own bullion, or if they source it to a third party minting service, but if the reputation of the mint is good, I see no reason to doubt the authenticity of the silver.  One nice thing about these physical bitcoins (and Casascius' bitcoins, and Lealana Litecoins) is that I can verify the balance of the coin at any time, with little difficulty.

One more thing.  Outside of a density test which most people are not equipped to do, other methods of testing are destructive to the coin, like the acid test (to test for purity) or a scratch test (to test for plating).

Very true reputation is very important. I agree that with reputation it would almost be a non-issue for the company to sell coins without them being tested for purity.

But exactly what is the reputation of said company and OP?

I guess time will tell on that one.

Did I miss where they posted which mint mints these coins?

I was under the impression that there were other devices that could be used to determine the purity of a silver or gold coin. One of my local coin shop dealers said he's used a type of "gun". Not sure if it was ultrasonic or whatever but he claimed it works. Then again that is just talk and I haven't verified that claim myself.

Like I keep saying I don't claim to be an expert on the topic. Just merely wanted to ask the question that comes to mind concerning purity.

[BurtW]

Expected Delivery Date: January 24, 2014
Product & Tracking Information
Postal Product:
Priority Mail 2-Day™
Features:
Certified Mail™
Return Receipt
DATE & TIME
STATUS OF ITEM
LOCATION
January 22, 2014 , 5:33 pm
Dispatched to Sort Facility   
SPRINGFIELD, MO 65804
January 22, 2014 , 4:51 pm
Acceptance   
SPRINGFIELD, MO 65804

Very excited.

[htspringer]

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

There are certainly levels of tamper-resistance, and I think these coins appear far more tamper resistant than any other physical bitcoins out there.  
First, if the cases cannot be entered without breaking them, then the crook must somehow manufacture his own identical cases... That is, to say the least, an expensive proposition.
Second, if entering the case destroys the hologram and the signature and the hologram, then two additional barriers are introduced.
Third, the coins themselves are of moderately complex design...and would be far more difficult to counterfeit than most physical bitcoins.
Finally, even if a thief successfully counterfeited a case, Alitin Mint claims to have a proprietary cipher system in place where they can verify if a case is legitimate.

The only other physical bitcoin out there that appears this secure seems to be titan bitcoin.  The only drawback is that [it is my understanding] you have to concede actual ownership of the bitcoins to a third party until they are redeemed.

Keep in mind that there are other methods of "gaining access" to something without actually opening the container. Ever heard of ultrasound as one simple example?

Your second point I am not sure I follow. You say "if" but I'm not sure I read that that is what happens when opening the case.

Your third point is concerning counterfeit coins. Tampering and counterfeiting coins are two separate topics.

Your last point are just claims. I'm not saying any of the claims aren't true, but until it has been proven to be true as in the claim about the case being "tamper-proof" and the comment the radiologist made concerning current technology, are simply just that, claims without proof publicly given.

Hopefully someone can give these coins a test to different tampering mechanisms to prove or disprove said claims. As I've said, talk is cheap.

My second point... You are correct... I'm supposing that you can't enter the case without destroying the hologram and signature.

I think it's up to a skeptic to prove that something is out there that can image an etched engraving on metal. I can tell you that I am almost  certain that no conventional medical imaging equipment could obtain an engraved private key off of a silver coin.  In the first place, metal interferes with CT and MRI imaging. Secondly, the engraving is on a curved surface, so any imaging would require thousands of slices.  Thirdly, no medical imaging devices are even close to that precise as far as resolution is concerned.   If you are aware of any device that could achieve such resolution, I would be interested to know what it is and how expensive it would be. 

[smoothie]

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

There are certainly levels of tamper-resistance, and I think these coins appear far more tamper resistant than any other physical bitcoins out there.  
First, if the cases cannot be entered without breaking them, then the crook must somehow manufacture his own identical cases... That is, to say the least, an expensive proposition.
Second, if entering the case destroys the hologram and the signature and the hologram, then two additional barriers are introduced.
Third, the coins themselves are of moderately complex design...and would be far more difficult to counterfeit than most physical bitcoins.
Finally, even if a thief successfully counterfeited a case, Alitin Mint claims to have a proprietary cipher system in place where they can verify if a case is legitimate.

The only other physical bitcoin out there that appears this secure seems to be titan bitcoin.  The only drawback is that [it is my understanding] you have to concede actual ownership of the bitcoins to a third party until they are redeemed.

Keep in mind that there are other methods of "gaining access" to something without actually opening the container. Ever heard of ultrasound as one simple example?

Your second point I am not sure I follow. You say "if" but I'm not sure I read that that is what happens when opening the case.

Your third point is concerning counterfeit coins. Tampering and counterfeiting coins are two separate topics.

Your last point are just claims. I'm not saying any of the claims aren't true, but until it has been proven to be true as in the claim about the case being "tamper-proof" and the comment the radiologist made concerning current technology, are simply just that, claims without proof publicly given.

Hopefully someone can give these coins a test to different tampering mechanisms to prove or disprove said claims. As I've said, talk is cheap.

My second point... You are correct... I'm supposing that you can't enter the case without destroying the hologram and signature.

I think it's up to a skeptic to prove that something is out there that can image an etched engraving on metal. I can tell you that I am almost  certain that no conventional medical imaging equipment could obtain an engraved private key off of a silver coin.  In the first place, metal interferes with CT and MRI imaging. Secondly, the engraving is on a curved surface, so any imaging would require thousands of slices.  Thirdly, no medical imaging devices are even close to that precise as far as resolution is concerned.   If you are aware of any device that could achieve such resolution, I would be interested to know what it is and how expensive it would be.  

You make very valid points here. I still am a big believer if an attacker is given enough resources and time any security feature will break. This debunks the claim of tamper-proof in my view.

I am very curious to see these coins be tested especially the casing. Very exciting stuff.  

[BTCINVESTOR]

I bought 10 of them. Here is a picture of one.

Case looks very carefully sealed. Very pretty.

They publish all of the public addresses on their website as they ship them. I got an early one because I am related to the artist and because I bought a larger amount.

I will be handing them down to my children.

[geoffreyqp]

really nice looking

[culexevilman]

looks nice, too bad I have no more to spend at the moment...

[dave00]

looks really nice!

[htspringer]

These are the only physical bitcoins I've ever purchased. (should receive them any day)  I love the fact that they've got quality art as well as collectible value.  ...and the case really does look tamper proof.