If you own 3000 or more Bitcoin, Wall Street wants your advice

[Minor Miner]

My skin is plenty thick but the level of ignorance that people have to assume things without basis never ceases to amaze me.   BTW -- what's your real name and credentials/ LinkedIn etc?

Why would you like to know?   Are we starting a business together?
I do not use Linked In because it is useful mostly for trolling stock brokers that want to sell people sketchy income trusts and software salespeople that want to eff your entire business backend up.
My credentials are similar to what you would like others to believe yours are.
But, somewhere along the way, somehow, I gleaned enough common sense to know how to find 20,000 bitcoins (if I actually had the money to buy them) without posting on "craiglist".
You are now leaving no doubt in my mind, that I just saw right through your paragraph of bullshit.

[1715021752]

1715021752

[medUSA]

The topic has been going on for a week now, I suppose you have already reached out to several 3000btc holders. So, whatever happens to this topic here doesn't matter anymore. My guess is you plan is on its course.

You have said you wanted to do something about letting "average" people buy exposure to bitcoin. In my opinion, the only "exposure" they actually need is actually buying and using bitcoins, not any sort of "vehicle". The community do not need any investment bank/firm/fund backed "vehicle", only those who wants to make a quick buck needs "vehicle". The best for bitcoin in the long term is LOTS of "average" people, holding a adequate amount each, spending and using them.

The thing I worry most is when one day, a trusted institution started accepting bitcoin deposits and lending them out, and there is no regulatory body to enforce a reserve requirement. Then bitcoin will be dollars all over again.

Less than 20k Bitcoins are traded at Gox these days, translates to about $20M. This is minute in Wall Street. If the Wall Street have enough bitcoins, they could do pretty much anything to the prices, and these large bitcoin holders could be helping.

I just hope you are really doing something good to the bitcoin community.

[Bostonbitcoin]

But, somewhere along the way, somehow, I gleaned enough common sense to know how to find 20,000 bitcoins (if I actually had the money to buy them) without posting on "craiglist".

So you won't say who you are?  

I never said anything about Craigslist....I never said I was looking to buy coins, your other assumptions about the purpose of the coins were wrong ....your assumption about "locates" and long /short is wrong, like much of what you've said it's based on nothing at all ....and I really don't care what you think of Morgan Stanley....I didn't even mention MS in my original post ....only in response to armchair troll keyboard warriors like yourself who claimed I didn't really work for AF, also with no basis.....I was clear elsewhere that I started as a retail broker... that was almost 22 years ago -- I did the job much younger than average and with much better results than average and if you want to judge someone you know nothing about based on the job they had in their 20s which was two decades ago, have at it.   The $4.5-5 bn I did was almost all after MS and by transaction I mean placing money into a LP or other fund which I raised.

I know it's much easier on the Internet, hiding behind anonymity, to mudsling and make accusations ....but when there is no basis in truth and there is no statement the other person has said which is untrue or misleading then it doesn't serve the mudslinger very well.

[Bostonbitcoin]

You have said you wanted to do something about letting "average" people buy exposure to bitcoin. In my opinion, the only "exposure" they actually need is actually buying and using bitcoins, not any sort of "vehicle". The community do not need any investment bank/firm/fund backed "vehicle", only those who wants to make a quick buck needs "vehicle". The best for bitcoin in the long term is LOTS of "average" people, holding a adequate amount each, spending and using them.

I just hope you are really doing something good to the bitcoin community.

I really believe that more broad access is key.

There are lots of posts about new ATMs or new merchants accepting....yet all of the BTC on planet earth is still worth less than the teen clothing store The Limited or less than 5% of Nestle. 

I think we really need to get more real, WS sized, capital into BTC and key to this I think are several vehicles like Fortress, Winkelvoss and what I'm researching doing.

For BTC enthusiasts it does not seem a big deal to buy BTC....but for either the institutional investor or the general public....it's a hurdle.   They don't understand private keys, liquidity etc.

Something that allows a dentist in San Diego to call the same broker he has known for 20 years and say "sell 1200 AAPL, buy 900 BTC Fund" is key to increasing market cap and therefor increasing stability.

IMHO I think this is the most key thing to help BTC.....I really believe the price stability is a major barrier for consumers and retailers and I think market size will help that and have it's own benefits.

[Inedible]

Can you provide some more info on what you're planning on doing?

[Minor Miner]

But, somewhere along the way, somehow, I gleaned enough common sense to know how to find 20,000 bitcoins (if I actually had the money to buy them) without posting on "craiglist".

So you won't say who you are?  
I never said anything about Craigslist....I never said I was looking to buy coins, your other assumptions about the purpose of the coins were wrong ....your assumption about "locates" and long /short is wrong, like much of what you've said it's based on nothing at all ....and I really don't care what you think of Morgan Stanley....I didn't even mention MS in my original post ....only in response to armchair troll keyboard warriors like yourself who claimed I didn't really work for AF, also with no basis.....I was clear elsewhere that I started as a retail broker... that was almost 22 years ago -- I did the job much younger than average and with much better results than average and if you want to judge someone you know nothing about based on the job they had in their 20s which was two decades ago, have at it.   The $4.5-5 bn I did was almost all after MS and by transaction I mean placing money into a LP or other fund which I raised.
I know it's much easier on the Internet, hiding behind anonymity, to mudsling and make accusations ....but when there is no basis in truth and there is no statement the other person has said which is untrue or misleading then it doesn't serve the mudslinger very well.

Why would I say who I am?  I am not asking people on a public forum for anything.  Especially, a public forum that is inhabited by hackers.
I think highly of MS, it was hard to get a job there in the 90s.  But, you did not work there so it is irrelevant other than they replaced the sign above your door one one day with MWD.  You are the one sensitive about it.
The "craiglist" was an indication of the equivalent of what you are doing....
If you do not want to buy the coins OR to use the coins in any way, you should be able to do what you please WITHOUT any coins.   If you think your idea is so brilliant, you should air it here.   Some strong criticism may actually help you.
If your idea had any credibility, and you only needed 10-20k bitcoins AND could make the person or people that held those coins money, it is VERY easy to find people that have that many coins.  Why don't you hire a high school student familiar with google.  It should not take him more than a day to get you a list of 20 people.  And yes, I think you are a little dense, if you were successful at smiling and dialing in the 90s and you cannot find these people yourself.
Or, your idea a good one mostly for yourself and the easy to find people, do not feel like helping you make money with their coins.   Simply air it.

[DPoS]

He hasn't answered why he just doesn't get his backers to buy from Mt Gox

So, he doesn't really have $$$ backers but rather wants to represent a pool of old money bitcoiners to the money bags of wall street to start something.

As I said earlier, the way to do this would be to ask maybe ~10% of holdings from old money types and then get some momentum and perhaps others would add to it.   The reason being, someone with 5000 btc can't really realize their gain anyway since that amount is pretty impossible to actually cash out of an exchange.. sure you can sell 5000 on an exchange but are they about to drain all that cash out of their liquidity to your bank account?  Maybe once.. not 20 times for sure

But the other question will be a hard answer.  What sets the price of bitcoin anyway?  A bot run on mt gox that other bots react to? Coinbase is a headless chicken during fast pumps and crashes triggering very wide spreads trying to save its ass from being exploited. 

The irony is that easier access to cash out would kill the price at least in the short term but then it could get more widespread after that and then the value trend back up.

Or, if things progress as it is now and the current exchanges can survive as is (can coinbase survive in this chaotic climate?), the price can stay pretty high and slowly bitcoins can spread out to the masses.

[ex-trader]

So, he doesn't really have $$$ backers but rather wants to represent a pool of old money bitcoiners to the money bags of wall street to start something.

Which is not a bad business model.

It makes sense for larger holders of bitcoins to be able to be part of a large co-investment vehicle and allow shares in that vehicle to be sold over time to new buyers into Bitcoin who want to buy in an easier way. Saves disturbing the small traded market. I also imagine there are a few people who have recently become worth quite a lot in Fiat from Bitcoins and don't really know what to do with them regarding selling, tax and subsequent asset diversification and have no idea about who to discuss it with given the sharks, scams and general bad behaviour that is so often around Bitcoin and this forum.

PS I did work in MS on the trading floor, so am quite amused by the name calling. Happy to prove my identity privately to anyone who is willing to do likewise.

[Bostonbitcoin]

He hasn't answered why he just doesn't get his backers to buy from Mt Gox

You're asking why not get new people to invest in Bitcoin by buying on MtGox and then work with them?

Sure, that's an option and something I could do.....I have plenty of access to capital from people who hold no Bitcoin.  

I'd much rather work with people who already understand Bitcoin and believe in it.  There are a handful of large investors interested in the space, some believe in it, some want to dabble in it as what they thrink might be a way to make some quick money on what they see as mania.  

In those types of meetings the conversation is 95% focused on what Bitcoin is, why they should be interested, questions about negative articles etc.  Happy to have those conversations with investors who are interested in BTC but I'd much rather talk with people who already get all of that, already believe in BTC and who want to keep BTC exposure.

I also like the idea of doing a full BTC based idea: paying the law firm and other service providers with BTC, paying employees with BTC etc and starting entirely with BTC.

Also, I'm talking to large BTC holders to get a feel for what the viability is and the interest levels.

The reason I'm not simply publishing the plan on here is:
- regulation-- if this does become an offering at some point I want to avoid anything in a public forum which could be construed by regulators as an offering of securities
- it's harder to wade through Internet forums to separate trolls and serious people and on boards it's easy to be confused -- also don't want to broadcast what I think is a good idea to competitors.
 

[MPOE-PR]

The reason I'm not simply publishing the plan on here is:
- regulation-- if this does become an offering at some point I want to avoid anything in a public forum which could be construed by regulators as an offering of securities
- it's harder to wade through Internet forums to separate trolls and serious people and on boards it's easy to be confused -- also don't want to broadcast what I think is a good idea to competitors.

3. Announce your business plan. If you think your business plan has to be kept secret because otherwise others will steal it you are probably too stupid to be in business (not just BTC, but in general).

Let me explain to you how business "stealing" works: at the time MPEx was created (Feb 2012) there existed GLBSE already, which sucked at that time. Nobody flailing around in a cloud of stupidity almost mould-like in consistency seemed to be aware of it, but GLBSE sucked. And so Mr. P decided to make a securities exchange that worked right and was run correctly.

So, pro tip #1: there's so much to do and so few people capable of doing it in Bitcoin that if your plan makes sense and you seem even remotely competent everyone else who is competent will breathe a sigh of relief. They aren't going to "steal" your idea of doing the absolutely fucking obviously banal, cause so much is needed I couldn't begin to tell you.

Pro tip #2: if you are incompetent, the people who are competent aren't going to steal your business early. They are going to steal it late, just like MPEx demolished GLBSE. They don't need early mover advantage, they will come to your market six months or a year late, break off your arms and beat you over the head with them until you are reduced to a bloody mess.

So, forget about anyone "Stealing" your business. When S.DICE was announced, a bunch of forum muppets rambled on about how it's not worth its valuation because "everyone could do it". And I laughed at them then and so to prove my point that they're laughable idiots they declared that they shall do it! It's been months, who has managed to steal the business? You can't steal any business from the competent, and if you're competent yourself you don't even try to, cause it makes no business sense.

Thus, at the very least, step 3 gives you this measure of protection, whereby other competent people know you're doing X and so don't start doing X too. It saves our time and effort, rather than doing something twice do two of the fifty billion things that still need doing.

Obviously your announcement will gather a bunch of crap from a bunch of nobodies. But lucky for you, you've been doing this by the numbers, and you have the list. You know why you don't care what Joel Katz says about anything: what people who don't run businesses say is irrelevant. You know why you care what piuk says about anything to do with the blockchain (do you?).

Full text.

Anyway, if you want to talk to bitcoin finance, take the hint kindly offered to you by a few others a few pages ago and drop by assets.

[Rival]

If you own 3000 or more Bitcoin, Wall Street wants your advice you to own zero and for them to own 3000.

I fixed that for you.

[Bostonbitcoin]

If you own 3000 or more Bitcoin, Wall Street wants your advice you to own zero and for them to own 3000.

I fixed that for you.

Clever but not close to true.

[Bostonbitcoin]

The reason I'm not simply publishing the plan on here is:
- regulation-- if this does become an offering at some point I want to avoid anything in a public forum which could be construed by regulators as an offering of securities
- it's harder to wade through Internet forums to separate trolls and serious people and on boards it's easy to be confused -- also don't want to broadcast what I think is a good idea to competitors.

3. Announce your business plan. If you think your business plan has to be kept secret because otherwise others will steal it you are probably too stupid to be in business (not just BTC, but in general).

Anyway, if you want to talk to bitcoin finance, take the hint kindly offered to you by a few others a few pages ago and drop by assets.

I'm not worried about people stealing....it's primarily regulation. 

[Bostonbitcoin]

Liquidity is the last thing a large holder of bitcoins needs to worry about these days.  Being publicly identified is a more serious risk now.  Targeted hacking and much worse is a real possibility at this stage.

I'm  not looking to get people to sell or provide liquidity.

[Minor Miner]

Liquidity is the last thing a large holder of bitcoins needs to worry about these days.  Being publicly identified is a more serious risk now.  Targeted hacking and much worse is a real possibility at this stage.

I'm  not looking to get people to sell or provide liquidity.

If you do not need the bitcoins (since you do not want the people to sell them nor do you need locates or liquidity of any kind), you should probably speak with ross ulbricht.   He has a lot of coins.  He is pretty easy to locate too.

[Entropy-uc]

Liquidity is the last thing a large holder of bitcoins needs to worry about these days.  Being publicly identified is a more serious risk now.  Targeted hacking and much worse is a real possibility at this stage.

I'm  not looking to get people to sell or provide liquidity.

That makes absolutely no sense.  You have already said you want 10-20k bitcoins.  Are you seeking donations?

[Bostonbitcoin]

Liquidity is the last thing a large holder of bitcoins needs to worry about these days.  Being publicly identified is a more serious risk now.  Targeted hacking and much worse is a real possibility at this stage.

I'm  not looking to get people to sell or provide liquidity.

That makes absolutely no sense.  You have already said you want 10-20k bitcoins.  Are you seeking donations?

And people wonder why people are cautious of troll boards...

No, as I explained before I have an idea for a vehicle which would be public and provide easy access -- I believe this type of vehicle is superior to ETFs, private offerings and the other plans that people have announced.   In order for it to work, we'd need critical mass of 10-20k coins.

[Bostonbitcoin]

As I told you before, people smart enough to still have control of thousands of bitcoins aren't going to be rushing for some great opportunity peddled by an ex-boiler room operator.  It's been seen before and the folks that fell for it don't have any bitcoin left.

I'm not asking for a loan or donation--  I have an impeccable record for over 20 years and have worked with some of the largest most reputable firms in the industry.  I've never remotely been close to involved in any boiler room operation and have not had any regulatory issue, ever.

If you think you have the wisdom you need to judge me based on almost no information which was gleaned from a bulletin board then have at it....don't contact me and don't provide the input I'm asking for in this thread....it's clearly not a fit for you and clearly you are not a fit either.

[Minor Miner]

He is full of crap.   He has stated that he DOES NOT need the bitcoin in any way.   Does not want to buy them and does not want to use them as collateral.   But needs 20,000 of these things that he really doesn't need.  If you truly do not need them, then there is a place you can search wallets.   Pick one with 20,000 in it and use that for your show.   Since you will NEVER need to access the wallet, it does not matter whose it is.

I already told him to use Ross' as he will not be accessing his for at least a couple years.   Ross is easy to find and probably would enjoy a visit.   

[Bostonbitcoin]

I already told him to use Ross' as he will not be accessing his for at least a couple years.   Ross is easy to find and probably would enjoy a visit.   

Clever....not sure why you are so focused on wasting time.

I'm not going to argue about proving who I am to anonymous people on a chat board when I've already provided my real name and it's easily verifiable on Linkedin etc.

You are picking apart something you have absolutely no earthy clue about. 

I'm not being cagey but I'm not going to post details on a public forum....if we are involved in an offering at some point this could be construed as a "public communication" by regulators.   Without details you are just making wild accusations and assumptions.