If tax calculators are to believed, staying in the UK means getting robbed

[Lethn]

This country and most 'civilised' countries just keep managing to find new ways to piss me off. I was doing some poking around as you do when you have hopes and dreams and for shits and giggles I've been looking at the tax calculators out there as well as trying to find information on the actual percentages and whatnot on income ( which predictably seems to be pretty difficult ) and if all this data is to believed not only is our economics situation ridiculous but the middle class in particular get robbed for just about everything they have.

Here's what I've found so far, I'd be happy to talk to other UK about this and see if it confirms my suspicions.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm

According to the UK government and anybody who supports taxation of the rich it seems to me that the 'rich' are people with middle class incomes who have a huge chunk of their money taken from them and then the people who are actually wealthy barely feel a thing because of the amount of money that's going to be coming in for them each year and all the investment choices they can make even if they paid honestly without using any loopholes.

Don't these fuckers know anything about percentages? If it is 40% that's going to be taking out a lot more from someone who's earning say £100,000 - £300,000 than somebody who earns £600,000 - £1,000,000 a year and can increase that amount practically any time they like especially if they take advantage of speculation and know how to do it. My favourite example of this little trick is when there was an article I saw about Mark Zuckerberg shorting on his own stock because he knew the price would fall and netting himself some ridiculous profit.

Seriously, help me out with the maths here guys, I really wish and hope I'm wrong about the middle class getting screwed, thank Satoshi for Bitcoin otherwise I would have no savings if I somehow managed to get past the £100,000 mark because that seems to be the moment when everything goes to hell for somebody who's trying to climb the ladder. I'm not surprised people who get success just leave the UK and go to the Caribbean somewhere because the tax rates here look ridiculous.

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[deed02392]

Mark Zuckerberg shorting on his own stock because he knew the price would fall and netting himself some ridiculous profit

Isn't this called insider trading? Thought that was illegal.

[TheButterZone]

Getting robbed, with no means of defense, or revolution.

[Lethn]

Mark Zuckerberg shorting on his own stock because he knew the price would fall and netting himself some ridiculous profit

Isn't this called insider trading? Thought that was illegal.

No idea, he did do it though, so he must have found some sort of loophole to exploit.

Getting robbed, with no means of defense, or revolution.

Going by the maths I've seen it is much worse being middle class than poor or rich here because there's that much income taken off you every time you earn that much you end up going in the poor category anyway, that's sort of my point I guess, I'm just staggered at how bad it is when I see the actual maths and I'm just going by estimates really too, the worse part is a lot of western countries are like this.

[Markov]

Middle class means easily taxed and robbed, lower class is thank you and keep being there, Upper class is can we have a dinner with you and pay for it. The more you have, as in money, the more you get and the less you spend. It is capitalism and the UK is in it. UK is in my opinion a shit country if you are honest and middle class.

[elasticband]

The UK is a mess with political and economic corruption, biggest criminals and gangsters running the show. Get out while you still can, the island is sinking.

[Hawker]

This country and most 'civilised' countries just keep managing to find new ways to piss me off. I was doing some poking around as you do when you have hopes and dreams and for shits and giggles I've been looking at the tax calculators out there as well as trying to find information on the actual percentages and whatnot on income ( which predictably seems to be pretty difficult ) and if all this data is to believed not only is our economics situation ridiculous but the middle class in particular get robbed for just about everything they have.

Here's what I've found so far, I'd be happy to talk to other UK about this and see if it confirms my suspicions.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm

According to the UK government and anybody who supports taxation of the rich it seems to me that the 'rich' are people with middle class incomes who have a huge chunk of their money taken from them and then the people who are actually wealthy barely feel a thing because of the amount of money that's going to be coming in for them each year and all the investment choices they can make even if they paid honestly without using any loopholes.

Don't these fuckers know anything about percentages? If it is 40% that's going to be taking out a lot more from someone who's earning say £100,000 - £300,000 than somebody who earns £600,000 - £1,000,000 a year and can increase that amount practically any time they like especially if they take advantage of speculation and know how to do it. My favourite example of this little trick is when there was an article I saw about Mark Zuckerberg shorting on his own stock because he knew the price would fall and netting himself some ridiculous profit.

Seriously, help me out with the maths here guys, I really wish and hope I'm wrong about the middle class getting screwed, thank Satoshi for Bitcoin otherwise I would have no savings if I somehow managed to get past the £100,000 mark because that seems to be the moment when everything goes to hell for somebody who's trying to climb the ladder. I'm not surprised people who get success just leave the UK and go to the Caribbean somewhere because the tax rates here look ridiculous.

The problem is that people vote for policies and then someone has to pay the tax for those policies.  There is no point complaining about the tax unless you are also prepared to give up the goodies that we get in return.

The 1% are the big payers of tax - they pay about 30% of all income tax and you'll find that they are the big payers of capital gains tax as well.  The middle class, the people who vote for the policies, get off lightly.

[hilariousandco]

Middle class means easily taxed and robbed, lower class is thank you and keep being there.

What are these classes you talk about? How much money you have?

[t1000]

All things considered UK is actually not that bad in comparison with other nations.

There is an NHS. Delays at the emergency rooms are shocking, but at least there is 'free' health care.

Politicians are not untouchable, some do go to jail when they break the law.

Alcohol consumption rules here are not as strict as say in the US. (Can drink from 16, can buy from 18)

Most cops here don't carry guns.

Most people are pretty honest here too  .

Property ownership: you do actually get perpetual land ownership here with freehold properties, something that is not possible in places like China.

I am not saying the government always follow its own laws... but it does it more often and more consistently than other countries. E.g. They are actually going to release convicted terrorists after they have served their prison sentences, whether they have changed their views or not.

The UK values techies like myself, the wages aren't bad for writing software.

Interbank transfers are free.

The taxes are kind of heavy on the income side though ($%#!"&^? 40%!), I agree. It would have been better to have land value tax and less income tax IMO. Those who can afford to own a property are more able to pay than those who have only income. Oh and the 20% VAT should be scraped, so should CGT, calculating CGT gives everyone headache. LVT alone will probably be enough.

[Lethn]

It honestly seems like the only option for someone like me to become a millionaire immediately and move out of the country or the more realistic option, stay in the low income 'bracket' on purpose until I can save enough money in Bitcoin to move out and flee like a dissident, this is another reason why I was considering renouncing my citizenship because then the UK government wouldn't be able to attack me for having Bitcoins stored away if they found out.

Yes, I realise that's a pretty paranoid scenario, but I honestly believe with the way they've been acting that's what they'll get up to soon enough.

Oh and saying the UK isn't as bad as other nations is a bit like saying drinking piss isn't as bad as eating shit, It's really sad when I see UK people get defensive about their nation but I guess everybody tends to do that wherever you go .

[sgbett]

This country and most 'civilised' countries just keep managing to find new ways to piss me off. I was doing some poking around as you do when you have hopes and dreams and for shits and giggles I've been looking at the tax calculators out there as well as trying to find information on the actual percentages and whatnot on income ( which predictably seems to be pretty difficult ) and if all this data is to believed not only is our economics situation ridiculous but the middle class in particular get robbed for just about everything they have.

Here's what I've found so far, I'd be happy to talk to other UK about this and see if it confirms my suspicions.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm

According to the UK government and anybody who supports taxation of the rich it seems to me that the 'rich' are people with middle class incomes who have a huge chunk of their money taken from them and then the people who are actually wealthy barely feel a thing because of the amount of money that's going to be coming in for them each year and all the investment choices they can make even if they paid honestly without using any loopholes.

Don't these fuckers know anything about percentages? If it is 40% that's going to be taking out a lot more from someone who's earning say £100,000 - £300,000 than somebody who earns £600,000 - £1,000,000 a year and can increase that amount practically any time they like especially if they take advantage of speculation and know how to do it. My favourite example of this little trick is when there was an article I saw about Mark Zuckerberg shorting on his own stock because he knew the price would fall and netting himself some ridiculous profit.

Seriously, help me out with the maths here guys, I really wish and hope I'm wrong about the middle class getting screwed, thank Satoshi for Bitcoin otherwise I would have no savings if I somehow managed to get past the £100,000 mark because that seems to be the moment when everything goes to hell for somebody who's trying to climb the ladder. I'm not surprised people who get success just leave the UK and go to the Caribbean somewhere because the tax rates here look ridiculous.

Its crap yes (tax is) but its reasonably "fair"

UK income tax is banded. So whether you earn 200k or 800k you still pay the same on the lower bands, you just pay more on the difference in the upper band. e.g.

Gross Income 200k
Personal Allowance is nil because you are well over the income limit (100k)
20% on first 31,865 = 6373
40% on next 118,134 (eg "£31,866 - £150,000" band) = 47253.60
45% on remaining 50,000 (e.g. "over £150,000" band) = 22500
Total = £76126.6 (effective rate 38%)

Gross Income 800k
Personal Allowance is nil because you are well over the income limit (100k)
20% on first 31,865 = 6373
40% on next 118,134 (eg "£31,866 - £150,000" band) = 47253.60
45% on remaining 650,000 (e.g. "over £150,000" band) = 292500
Total = £346126.6 (effective rate 43%)

The more you earn the more you pay. At least, that's the way the tax code is written.

[sgbett]

It honestly seems like the only option for someone like me to become a millionaire immediately and move out of the country or the more realistic option, stay in the low income 'bracket' on purpose until I can save enough money in Bitcoin to move out and flee like a dissident, this is another reason why I was considering renouncing my citizenship because then the UK government wouldn't be able to attack me for having Bitcoins stored away if they found out.

Yes, I realise that's a pretty paranoid scenario, but I honestly believe with the way they've been acting that's what they'll get up to soon enough.

Oh and saying the UK isn't as bad as other nations is a bit like saying drinking piss isn't as bad as eating shit, It's really sad when I see UK people get defensive about their nation but I guess everybody tends to do that wherever you go .

The *most* realistic option (imho - at least for me so far), is not to realise significant profits whilst you are a UK taxpayer. Keep it under the capital gains allowance of £10,900 for the year (2013-14) and you can take profits tax free. Anything above that and you start paying tax. Offset costs/losses. Most important get an accountant to make sure you are doing it right

Be thankful the early rumours about BTC being VATable did not come to fruition. Silver is a right mess because of VAT.

[Colin Miner]

I'm not surprised people who get success just leave the UK and go to the Caribbean somewhere because the tax rates here look ridiculous.

Not to mention the weather!

[gentlemand]

Compared to vast swathes of the present world and at any other time and place in human history the UK is a glittering paradise.

Sure, tax is a huge drain and it's squandered constantly. I'd rather be paying my protection money to The Man than be hiding in a bush in the Congo hoping my limbs aren't going to be hacked off.

It's perfectly understandable to moan about it. But you're moaning whilst well fed with some kind of roof over your head, using your education, (hopefully) decent health, pretty darned safe surroundings and handy infrastructure all provided in part by that pesky tax.

Any tax payments via Bitcoin gains have been long written off in my mind. I'm not going to throw away my life, culture, family and friends for the sake of only 28% of it.

And I like the weather here. There, I said it.

[t1000]

I <3 rain! My miner loves the cold.

[Lethn]

I like the weather here as well and honestly, I couldn't give a fuck about conditions of a country really these days, it's all about the people, I'd be perfectly happy living on my own in a semi-detached house or flat for years as long as I have my own privacy but even that's going to get taken away eventually, I'm not just one of those anti-tax people I truly hate everything about western governments and I don't have much love for those in the East either but at least they aren't hypocrites and are openly tyrannical.

I'll find a way around this, I found Bitcoin despite it being hidden away in the deep web so it must be possible .

Oh yeah and the weather is fantastic for miners, I was getting worried that the U.K was going to become another horrid heater always turned up at maximum type country but nope always manages to keep raining and get cold

[Hawker]

I like the weather here as well and honestly, I couldn't give a fuck about conditions of a country really these days, it's all about the people, I'd be perfectly happy living on my own in a semi-detached house or flat for years as long as I have my own privacy but even that's going to get taken away eventually, I'm not just one of those anti-tax people I truly hate everything about western governments and I don't have much love for those in the East either but at least they aren't hypocrites and are openly tyrannical.

I'll find a way around this, I found Bitcoin despite it being hidden away in the deep web so it must be possible .

Oh yeah and the weather is fantastic for miners, I was getting worried that the U.K was going to become another horrid heater always turned up at maximum type country but nope always manages to keep raining and get cold

If you don't want to pay the taxes, at least be man enough to say you feel the problem is that the people are greedy twats who vote for stupid policies which require taxation.

If you like the people and the people vote for the policies that require taxes, then pay the taxes. 

Simples

[Lethn]

The problem with that logic is Hawker, most people here aren't that bad, it's the voting block that causes all the problems and they don't even make up more than 50% of the country, the situation isn't as simple as people like you like to make out, voting turnout is ridiculously low in this country and in the U.S. so I'd argue that legally these governments aren't representing these countries at all.

[Hawker]

The problem with that logic is Hawker, most people here aren't that bad, it's the voting block that causes all the problems and they don't even make up more than 50% of the country, the situation isn't as simple as people like you like to make out, voting turnout is ridiculously low in this country and in the U.S.

The Brits like the NHS, the roads, the Queen, the Armed forces and so on.  They will always vote for them and thus for taxes to support them.    If you add together the Tories, Labour and LibDems, you have well over 90% of the population and all of them have the same tax policies. 

[Lethn]

LOL - http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/Complete-set-of-provisional-turn-out-figures-for-referendum-now-published

The figures are always a bit sketchy but I remember a BBC article practically complaining that about 42% or so? Were the only ones to show up, it was even worse in some of the local elections, dramatically worse.