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Author Topic: How come everyone that points of bitcoin weakness are called trolls  (Read 1095 times)
gen. specific
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August 27, 2011, 02:29:42 PM
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Okay guys, this is intended to be a rational market thread.

How come everyone that points out bitcoin weaknesses are called trolls? I mean I have seen some entirely well thought out posts simply showing supply/demand based cons of bitcoin (sorry, no citations for this thread) but the first reply is always a reference to the OP being a troll


EVERYONE in here long at Bitcoin/USD $30 and absorbing a huge paper loss? The only reason I can come up with for this kind of behavior is that people are married to their speculative positions


anyway, hoping someone can explain the mentality.  I can accept flaws in investments in slightly more rational markets (with more short selling participants) ie. I've made more money shorting gold than buying it just because I know it is mostly retail traders and they are stupid, I shorted BP for 30 days,  shorted AIG, Bank of America, etc etc.  But I don't really talk to people when I decide that there is something negative about the current price of an asset, I just do, yet here when I see people talking about rational negative qualities about the bitcoin asset, they are automatically trolls

I understand that in the general public (or perhaps tech. community), people DO have a negative opinion of bitcoin, but here I see very well thought out discussions... so please explain how these people are so easily villified
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August 27, 2011, 02:40:32 PM
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EVERYONE in here long at Bitcoin/USD $30 and absorbing a huge paper loss? The only reason I can come up with for this kind of behavior is that people are married to their speculative positions



I see that as the reason. They got in early/early enough on something that they have a vested interest in hyping. Also, this is a passionate early adopter market, don't expect a lot of rational behaviour :  )

You'll see the same things at small cap trading forums. Everyone likes to root for their underdog. If I had  a massive wallet of BTC, I'd be pretty well occupied taking down critism as well, as that reduces the long term value of my Btc.

Here, as in all places, it's best to ignore the trolls and carry ever on with reasoned exchanges.
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August 27, 2011, 02:44:15 PM
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What points are you referring to?

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August 27, 2011, 02:48:02 PM
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sorry, no citations for this thread
Without citations how could we explain?

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August 27, 2011, 03:54:14 PM
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I have never called anyone a troll on this board, and have been accused of being a troll on a few other boards, but I'll take a stab at this.  Of course, I'm not a troll, but that's also exactly what a troll would say, so you have to be wary of people claiming not to be trolls (I know, very meta)

Most people assume trolls are idiots.  This is greatly (but not always) true,or they wouldn't spend their time trolling, they would find something better to do.

Most people who are smart enough to actually understand BitCoin (or think they understand it, at least) and interested enough in it to discuss it are CONVINCED they are correct in a lot of cases.  However, the appeal of relatively concrete (in the investor's mind) long term gains makes them feel "smarter", and feel a need to disparage people who point things out they didn't see, because how could they be stupider than the investor and still see this real weakness in BitCoin that the investor didn't see.

This is the Internet.  Trolls are a relatively hot meme now (also very meta, and ironic, also a very hot meme on the Internet, and throughout human history.

People react irrationally to truths they don't like.  Hence, someone who is long on BitCoin will sometimes ignore a real potential weakness in their investment position on the grounds that someone is a troll (in their flawed subjective opinion).

And trolling is kind of subjective - the troll may believe he has a point, whereas the individual could only perceive it as an attempt at trolling.  And of course, there are actual trolls out there some of the time, which people mistake for real user, also known as successful trolls, as rare as they should be (but sadly aren't).

But the reason people accuse people of trolling when they aren't trolls, and are actually pointing out legitimate weaknesses, shortcomings, hurdles, or even breaking points in anything, let alone money is because they're idiots.

Way bigger idiots than actual trolls.

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August 27, 2011, 03:57:20 PM
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sorry, no citations for this thread
Without citations how could we explain?

Right. You haven't given any examples of posts or bitcoin flaws.

Still around.
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August 27, 2011, 04:20:23 PM
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How would the choir react if the preacher revealed doubts?

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August 27, 2011, 04:27:51 PM
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I have never called anyone a troll on this board, and have been accused of being a troll on a few other boards, but I'll take a stab at this.  Of course, I'm not a troll, but that's also exactly what a troll would say, so you have to be wary of people claiming not to be trolls (I know, very meta)

Most people assume trolls are idiots.  This is greatly (but not always) true,or they wouldn't spend their time trolling, they would find something better to do.

Most people who are smart enough to actually understand BitCoin (or think they understand it, at least) and interested enough in it to discuss it are CONVINCED they are correct in a lot of cases.  However, the appeal of relatively concrete (in the investor's mind) long term gains makes them feel "smarter", and feel a need to disparage people who point things out they didn't see, because how could they be stupider than the investor and still see this real weakness in BitCoin that the investor didn't see.

This is the Internet.  Trolls are a relatively hot meme now (also very meta, and ironic, also a very hot meme on the Internet, and throughout human history.

People react irrationally to truths they don't like.  Hence, someone who is long on BitCoin will sometimes ignore a real potential weakness in their investment position on the grounds that someone is a troll (in their flawed subjective opinion).

And trolling is kind of subjective - the troll may believe he has a point, whereas the individual could only perceive it as an attempt at trolling.  And of course, there are actual trolls out there some of the time, which people mistake for real user, also known as successful trolls, as rare as they should be (but sadly aren't).

But the reason people accuse people of trolling when they aren't trolls, and are actually pointing out legitimate weaknesses, shortcomings, hurdles, or even breaking points in anything, let alone money is because they're idiots.

Way bigger idiots than actual trolls.

okay, this basically confirms what I was seeing
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August 27, 2011, 04:31:00 PM
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How come everyone that points out bitcoin weaknesses are called trolls? I mean I have seen some entirely well thought out posts simply showing supply/demand based cons of bitcoin (sorry, no citations for this thread) but the first reply is always a reference to the OP being a troll

EVERYONE in here long at Bitcoin/USD $30 and absorbing a huge paper loss? The only reason I can come up with for this kind of behavior is that people are married to their speculative positions

Are there any references you can point to? Without having some examples, it's impossible to tell.

There are a lot of blatant trolls of many different agendas here, and they seem to constantly increase in number. You see, there weren't almost any until the USD/BTC climbed to above 10 (Check the archives, you won't find a comment like the one netrin posted above me and won't find people who are shouting "troll".). After that, really caring and knowledgeable people got less and less responsive for obvious reasons, and trolls seem to be taking over. In a trollish atmosphere, people who normally post valuable information start to get lousy as well. Trolls killed a lot of forums this way (kuro5hin comes to mind).

There are also genuinely concerned non-troll people who point out flaws that have been pointed out many many times before, without even checking about previous discussions, and act extremely self-confident and write in a condescending tone. This invites negativity, since it's common sense that people who seek genuine information act humbly. I'm not saying core Bitcoiners respond to them negatively, they usually don't respond at all and posters only get negative responses, are called trolls, etc.

This forum is flooded with criticism since its inception and it's a very good thing. Even at this low point in this forum, I wouldn't expect a well written argument of Bitcoin's flaws to be greeted negatively. That's why I was asking about examples, maybe I've been missing something.

EDIT: What I wrote above reads as if trolls are only critical about Bitcoin. I don't think trolls have a side, it's just easier to piss off people by acting negatively towards it since this is the Bitcoin forum. People shouting "troll" inappropriately are also trolling, aren't they?
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August 27, 2011, 04:50:55 PM
 #10

WEll a good bit of them havent done any research, havent looked at the wiki and then speak like they are an expert on the issue and have discovered something that rest of us were sooo stupid we didnt even think of it.

and they just scream out.. "BITCOIN WONT WORK CAUSE IT ISNT BACKED BY ANYTHING" as if we had never had this discussion.


"BITCOIN WILL NEVER WORK CAUSE THE TRANSACTIONS TAKE FOREVER"

same as if we have never discussed this before.

I dont mind well thought out comments on the negative of bitcoin or that it might crash or w/e but I do mind when people dont do even the most basic of searches to see if this has been well discussed or many of these people dont even look at the bitcoin wiki to see if their complaint is actually real "Bitcoin cant work cause when we run out of blocks there will be no miners left to verify transactions"

the other people who get called trolls a lot are people who troll a lot.. it doesnt matter if their comments this time are well thought out, if you have been a troll for most of your life here, people are not going to listen today.

Most trolls are called trolls for a reason, it would be much harder to call them trolls if they came to the table with their home work done

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August 27, 2011, 05:27:23 PM
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(Check the archives, you won't find a comment like the one netrin posted above me and won't find people who are shouting "troll".)
...
I don't think trolls have a side, it's just easier to piss off people by acting negatively towards it since this is the Bitcoin forum. People shouting "troll" inappropriately are also trolling, aren't they?

Did you just lump me in with the "people who are shouting "troll""? I believe I said the same thing as you in so many fewer words. If the preacher (poster) reveals doubts (negative bitcoin comments) then the choir (pro-bitcoin forum members) will be shocked.

There is a difference between someone posting technical/fundamental reasons for declining price in the speculation forum or someone posting cryptographic/networking concerns in the development forums versus a tiny minority who contribute nothing constructive seeking only a reaction. I believe unconstructive posters are trolls by definition, it's only that a bitcoin forum has a higher tolerance for blind love for bitcoin than for blind hate.

For example, I've been involved in numerous discussions where people legitimately don't understand massive numbers or exponentiation (a common human defect) and while the posters are very wrong (such as fear of accidental address collision), the responses tend to be thoughtful, patient, and ultimately productive if not redundant. I've generally found the "troll" label rare and appropriately attributed, on the other hand I don't read the majority of threads after reading the title.

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August 27, 2011, 11:49:28 PM
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Did you just lump me in with the "people who are shouting "troll""? I believe I said the same thing as you in so many fewer words. If the preacher (poster) reveals doubts (negative bitcoin comments) then the choir (pro-bitcoin forum members) will be shocked.

No, I did lump you with the trolls. I perceived your sentence as a more derogatory remark than you meant (not really good with religious analogies); please accept my sincerest apologies. Thanks for explaining it again. Smiley
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August 28, 2011, 01:02:01 AM
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In a trollish atmosphere, people who normally post valuable information start to get lousy as well.

There are also genuinely concerned non-troll people who point out flaws that have been pointed out many many times before, without even checking about previous discussions

it's common sense that people who seek genuine information act humbly.

This forum is flooded with criticism since its inception and it's a very good thing.

I wouldn't expect a well written argument of Bitcoin's flaws to be greeted negatively.


and they just scream out.. "BITCOIN WONT WORK CAUSE IT ISNT BACKED BY ANYTHING" as if we had never had this discussion....

"BITCOIN WILL NEVER WORK CAUSE THE TRANSACTIONS TAKE FOREVER"

I do mind when people dont do even the most basic of searches to see if this has been well discussed

the other people who get called trolls a lot are people who troll a lot.. it doesnt matter if their comments this time are well thought out, if you have been a troll for most of your life here, people are not going to listen today.

Most trolls are called trolls for a reason, it would be much harder to call them trolls if they came to the table with their home work done

emphasis mine - these points bear repeating, especially to newbies

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August 28, 2011, 01:40:31 AM
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Bitcoin opinions positive and negative are cool imo  Cool
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August 28, 2011, 01:44:46 AM
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Because we have a naturally long market in which participants for the most part can either go long.  So the majority of individuals are long bitcoin and profit on its rise and lose on its declines.  If the market were two-sided like the trading markets discussion would be more rational.

Emotions follow the direction of PNL.

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August 28, 2011, 03:32:33 AM
 #16

I just move on to the next post when someone says "troll". Bitcoin is a crazy idea and thus attracts crazy people. It's pointless to speculate intentions.
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August 29, 2011, 01:21:40 AM
 #17

No, I did lump you with the trolls. ... please accept my sincerest apologies. Thanks for explaining it again. Smiley

No worries. Humbly accepted. Here is perhaps a good example of a thoughtful post that was immediately stamped "troll". I probably would have thought the same at the time in July at my future's peril:

This is why I have liquidated my position in Bitcoins.  There is very little upside going forward.  No forward moves of late have any traction whatsoever and demand continues to lag.  Way too little upside for such a risky proposition so my advice is to move into dollars.  Only a significant change in the economy could alter this forecast.
Are you trolling?

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