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Dafar
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January 04, 2014, 05:01:19 AM
 #21

Lol at 'speculators' .... you guys don't know shit. The opposite of what you say will happen. Go back to the stock market if u wana analyze charts




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arepo
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January 04, 2014, 05:06:07 AM
 #22

Lol at 'speculators' .... you guys don't know shit. The opposite of what you say will happen. Go back to the stock market if u wana analyze charts

at the risk of feeding a troll, the bolded statement is false in at least this one instance.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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January 04, 2014, 05:19:01 AM
 #23

Charts and trend speculation only work at markets, where the market controlling minority isn't effectively organized in a common goal of mutual profit. When the market controlling minority consists of a group small enough, that there can be cooperation, then the common goal will be to enlarge profit at the expense of the submissive majority.
In another words, masses are dumb and can be predicted. Small groups are smart and hard to predict. So, I think that trend speculation isn't as useful with the bitcoin market.



ah yes trends are awful at predicting bitcoin price. oh wait Huh

Yes I think it is awful and it has been awful for quite some time. I don't see people here who are able to do consistently true speculations based on trends. Mostly there are many different kinds of speculations and mostly different people will get the answer right. To me it means that skill isn't a factor in determining the future of the price. And when skill isn't a factor in success, then there is no actual control with trend speculation and it's really gambling with  an illusion of control.
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January 04, 2014, 05:43:01 AM
 #24

Charts and trend speculation only work at markets, where the market controlling minority isn't effectively organized in a common goal of mutual profit. When the market controlling minority consists of a group small enough, that there can be cooperation, then the common goal will be to enlarge profit at the expense of the submissive majority.
In another words, masses are dumb and can be predicted. Small groups are smart and hard to predict. So, I think that trend speculation isn't as useful with the bitcoin market.



ah yes trends are awful at predicting bitcoin price. oh wait Huh

Yes I think it is awful and it has been awful for quite some time. I don't see people here who are able to do consistently true speculations based on trends. Mostly there are many different kinds of speculations and mostly different people will get the answer right. To me it means that skill isn't a factor in determining the future of the price. And when skill isn't a factor in success, then there is no actual control with trend speculation and it's really gambling with  an illusion of control.

i was being sarcastic... not quite sure if you were able to tell Undecided

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January 04, 2014, 05:53:31 AM
 #25

i was being sarcastic... not quite sure if you were able to tell Undecided

And I was being serious in spite of your sarcasm. Better luck next time with being sarcastic.
arepo
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January 04, 2014, 06:04:47 AM
 #26

i was being sarcastic... not quite sure if you were able to tell Undecided

And I was being serious in spite of your sarcasm. Better luck next time with being sarcastic.

b-b-but "trends are awful at predicting bitcoin price" is a demonstrably false statement...

i'm even more confused now Tongue

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January 04, 2014, 08:21:43 PM
 #27

This analysis makes more sense than most of the "pro" ones. Good to see some common sense for a change.

perhaps, but it leads to no strong conclusions, just a general sense of what one person believes about market sentiment at the moment. how would one trade using this analysis? what strategies does it suggest are successful? how likely is it that these strategies will actually be successful?

can the OP answer any of these questions?

--arepo

If we do go up sharply as Hellork says then I think although we might go quite far (certainly past $1,000) then it would become unsustainable. In which case be prepared for a correction back to the green trend line. Not so much of a margin to trade on if you do not have a lot of money but there we go.

Best strategy = Hodl (not what you wanted to hear I know Smiley )

                                                                               
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January 04, 2014, 09:03:06 PM
 #28

Lol at 'speculators' .... you guys don't know shit. The opposite of what you say will happen. Go back to the stock market if u wana analyze charts

at the risk of feeding a troll, the bolded statement is false in at least this one instance.

I didn't mean to insult you my friend, i'm exaggerating a bit but I still think bitcoin and crypto is too unpredictable




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arepo
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January 05, 2014, 06:02:04 AM
 #29

Lol at 'speculators' .... you guys don't know shit. The opposite of what you say will happen. Go back to the stock market if u wana analyze charts

at the risk of feeding a troll, the bolded statement is false in at least this one instance.

I didn't mean to insult you my friend, i'm exaggerating a bit but I still think bitcoin and crypto is too unpredictable

i am well aware that that's what you believe.

this sentence has fifteen words, seventy-four letters, four commas, one hyphen, and a period.
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T.Stuart (OP)
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January 08, 2014, 10:55:41 AM
 #30

I would just like to point out to people that the green trend line indicated on the chart in first post is attracting the price back as stated would happen.

It is not magic - the trend line roughly corresponds to the log chart.

With recent news that the US government, through intermediary Senator Tom Carter of Homeland Security, is looking towards supporting a bright future for Bitcoin, and other news showing Bitcoin being accepted (and regulated) by other countries, confidence in Bitcoin post-bubble is higher than ever before. This is why the tail end of the last bubble is playing out very differently from before, and confusing many experts in the process.

Do your own research and rely on your own common sense!

                                                                               
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January 10, 2014, 08:09:04 PM
Last edit: January 10, 2014, 09:48:32 PM by T.Stuart
 #31

A week ago I posted the chart below, minus the yellow cross (which shows roughly where we are today).




As I proposed in the OP of this thread, the analyst Hellork was not able correctly to compute into his models, as detailed and technical as they were, the strong positive change in Bitcoin market sentiment, the game of catch up being played by exchanges as they deal with increased interest, and importantly the powerful force that Hodlers are exerting on the market. Beating his odds of 100:1 we broke up as indicated by the red line on the chart, and then fell back and consolidated to just above green line. We have not come even close to the capitulation he proposed as being much more likely.

If you look carefully at today's charts with a week of fresh data you will see that we are following almost exactly the slight curve towards sideways movement, proposed in the OP a week ago.

I believe that this trajectory will continue to progress as proposed.

But... Over the next few days we may break up into a rally as we did last weekend, travelling a similar distance upwards – past $1,000 and then losing momentum just as we did then. Yet again, in this situation, do not panic. Just as before, look for a measured retracement to the green trend line.

A recent post on this forum linked to an article at http://www.wallstreetcrypto.com/. Setting aside for a moment the preliminary subject of the article entitled “Was it Zynga? January in Depth” – news and its effect or lack of on the market – the analyst posted a chart showing what he calls a “Crash Zone”. Similar to Hellork before him, he posits that when we reach this area we will likely experience a large crash. He does include a caveat: “without a major catalyst”. I believe that the market sentiment today – what most professional traders are in fact trying to read from past data with whatever tools they use – is already sufficient to keep the price steady around the green trend line on my chart despite spikes up and retracements on the way. On the website I made a comment to the author of the article, Alpha FourNineTwo, asking for the odds he would give on his model's success, but the comment has not yet appeared.

To go back to my chart... As we come towards the end of the month, the curve will begin becoming steeper again and this time we will break $1,000 definitively. This will happen just before or at the time of the New York Department of Financial Services Bitcoin hearing on 28 and 29 January.

It is crucial to realise the depth of the change in market sentiment, due to the perception that Bitcoin has an almost certain future now in the mainstream and that this future is coming fast, a perception that did not exist after any previous bubble. This psychological change is extremely significant. Of course it is not as powerfully obvious as the adrenalin rush (choo choo!) during the incredible run ups in price as a bubble expands exponentially, but this brand new post-bubble market sentiment is what is causing Bitcoin to carry on floating lazily, miles above previous prices, well out of the reach of those who still believe or hope that a final crash is imminent.

Have a nice weekend and good luck to all of you!

Note: no geometry, mathematics, Calculus or triangles were used to create this report. Everything above and in the OP is based on common sense.

                                                                               
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January 10, 2014, 11:33:58 PM
 #32

Everything above and in the OP is based on common sense.

KARHU once met a shoeshine boy who had tips and common sense once.

KARHU enjoyed the taste of his tears in the valley of capitulation. Give up your losses to KARHU before KARHU destroys you!
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January 18, 2014, 10:01:52 AM
Last edit: January 18, 2014, 11:02:45 AM by T.Stuart
 #33



Picking up from last week...

Looking at today's prices, we can see that after another week (week 2) of data we have been following the green trend line proposed in the OP closely, with the tendency to sideways movement playing out as predicted. The second yellow cross marks where we are today.

When I resumed our progress last week I made the point of saying that we might break back up into a rally and then fall back again to around the green trend, which we did.

Last week's post also made the following point:

“As we come towards the end of the month, the curve will begin becoming steeper again and this time we will break $1,000 definitively. This will happen just before or at the time of the New York Department of Financial Services Bitcoin hearing on 28 and 29 January.”

Hovering under $1,000

When I made the first post in this series on 3 January, I was asked about the shape of the proposed trend.

The current sideways movement reflects two things:

1. The psychological wall of $1,000.

2. The wait for the Chinese New Year.

$1,000

Although we are now seeing the first indisputable evidence of Bitcoin's move into the mainstream and of the beginning of mass-adoption, the barrier of $1,000 holds a certain power.

The Chinese New Year 31 January doomsday scenario

For several weeks now the forum has been awash with claims that come 31 January, we will see a mega-crash due to various factors including the Chinese dumping their Bitcoins and withdrawing their money from exchanges en masse.

A lot of people have been building up reserves of fiat to cash in on the panic sell they imagine will happen.

But think about it. With less than two weeks until 31 January, don't you think that any sensible Chinese person wishing to throw in the towel and cash in would have already at least sold their Bitcoins? I mean, how long does it take to withdraw money from the exchanges over there? If it is anything like over “here” then usually 5-10 working days in the best cases. And with the apparent rush to withdraw, wouldn't a few prudent Chinese whales have dumped already to get to the front of the queue?

The Chinese scenario is just a smokescreen. Chinese Bitcoiners are enthusiastic. They are also not doing anything illegal. The market for Bitcoin is going to continue in China and despite the FUD you read here, of all the official statements coming from the government in China none have claimed otherwise.

As it becomes clear over the following days that there is going to be no such mega-crash, those waiting for cheap coins will start to get nervous.

End of January

The pressure from China is keeping the price suppressed, and yet the behaviour of the market post China-bubble is incredible, with Bitcoins commanding a supported high premium. The change in market sentiment is palpable; we all know that over the days and weeks and months to come Bitcoin will keep exploding into the mainstream. Within the next few days we are going to see more large businesses adopt Bitcoin, decisions from the world's governments, and conferences taking place including the New York hearing. And importantly, as the Chinese smoke clears the market will lift again.

Holders

Over the past weeks we have not seen any panic selling. Whatever bad news has come out has only resulted in small-scale, measured sell-offs. Hodlers are controlling the market now. They know that waiting for the weeks to pass as 2014 unfolds is going to be very well worth it. It makes sense to sit back and relax now – no need for the stress of trying to trade unreliable intra-day trends.

In short, time has proven that investing in Bitcoin for the long-term rather than trying to ride the waves up and down is by far the most profitable strategy. But today, at this very moment at the outset of 2014, a potential investor has not only the security of past data on which to base their decision to buy and hold, but also diverse evidence of vast growth to come in 2014, adding a hugely significant extra layer of security.

This has caused the biggest change in market sentiment since the beginning of Bitcoin. This is what is being reflected today in the charts, and what I showed with my trend line two weeks ago.

EDIT: Just to point out the dangers of listening to TA experts on here, so far my chart has soundly beaten the predictions of at least 3 independent experts using all kinds of intricate methods.

                                                                               
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January 18, 2014, 12:43:08 PM
Last edit: January 18, 2014, 04:11:52 PM by segeln
 #34

[Hovering under $1,000

When I made the first post in this series on 3 January, I was asked about the shape of the proposed trend.

The current sideways movement reflects two things:

1. The psychological wall of $1,000.

2. The wait for the Chinese New Year.

$1,000

Although we are now seeing the first indisputable evidence of Bitcoin's move into the mainstream and of the beginning of mass-adoption, the barrier of $1,000 holds a certain power.

The Chinese New Year 31 January doomsday scenario

For several weeks now the forum has been awash with claims that come 31 January, we will see a mega-crash due to various factors including the Chinese dumping their Bitcoins and withdrawing their money from exchanges en masse.

A lot of people have been building up reserves of fiat to cash in on the panic sell they imagine will happen.

But think about it. With less than two weeks until 31 January, don't you think that any sensible Chinese person wishing to throw in the towel and cash in would have already at least sold their Bitcoins? I mean, how long does it take to withdraw money from the exchanges over there? If it is anything like over “here” then usually 5-10 working days in the best cases. And with the apparent rush to withdraw, wouldn't a few prudent Chinese whales have dumped already to get to the front of the queue?

The Chinese scenario is just a smokescreen. Chinese Bitcoiners are enthusiastic. They are also not doing anything illegal. The market for Bitcoin is going to continue in China and despite the FUD you read here, of all the official statements coming from the government in China none have claimed otherwise.

As it becomes clear over the following days that there is going to be no such mega-crash, those waiting for cheap coins will start to get nervous.

End of January
The pressure from China is keeping the price suppressed, and yet the behaviour of the market post China-bubble is incredible, with Bitcoins commanding a supported high premium. The change in market sentiment is palpable; we all know that over the days and weeks and months to come Bitcoin will keep exploding into the mainstream. Within the next few days we are going to see more large businesses adopt Bitcoin, decisions from the world's governments, and conferences taking place including the New York hearing. And importantly, as the Chinese smoke clears the market will lift again.

I appreciate your analysis very much,especially the China issue.
What worse thing could come frome China?
They are all prized in.
China could only surprise us with good news which would rise the price of bitcoin
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January 18, 2014, 04:09:36 PM
 #35

Thanks segeln!

                                                                               
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January 18, 2014, 05:02:41 PM
 #36

@ T.Stuart
since you made a good comment on the Situation in/from China I think it is up now for a comment about FBI/FED-SR auction.because I think it was great News regarding the legal-implications:
Quote
After selling the SR-Coins the USA says:thanks american citizens for buying the Coins off our Hands .But now they are completely useless,you cannot trade them
Would this be realistic ?
Quote
When the goverment sells bitcoins for FIAT money, thois would be some kind of ultimative legitimation. Or does the goverment auction seized drugs or guns? No! And does it auction things whose status is unclear?
 -> no!
Since there is an auction of the seized Coins the exchanges won`t be affected and the price remains at least stable.

And here another important jugdement:

Judge Orders CoinLab to Give Bitcoin to Bitvestment
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/07/judge-orders-coinlab-to-pay-up-in-bitcoin/

So I think the legalisation of bitcoin is well going on and this is a very important and huge issue

What do you, T.Stuart, think about this?
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January 18, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
 #37

@ T.Stuart
since you made a good comment on the Situation in/from China I think it is up now for a comment about FBI/FED-SR auction.because I think it was great News regarding the legal-implications:
Quote
After selling the SR-Coins the USA says:thanks american citizens for buying the Coins off our Hands .But now they are completely useless,you cannot trade them
Would this be realistic ?
Quote
When the goverment sells bitcoins for FIAT money, thois would be some kind of ultimative legitimation. Or does the goverment auction seized drugs or guns? No! And does it auction things whose status is unclear?
 -> no!
Since there is an auction of the seized Coins the exchanges won`t be affected and the price remains at least stable.

And here another important jugdement:

Judge Orders CoinLab to Give Bitcoin to Bitvestment
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/07/judge-orders-coinlab-to-pay-up-in-bitcoin/

So I think the legalisation of bitcoin is well going on and this is a very important and huge issue

What do you, T.Stuart, think about this?


I concur wholeheartedly with these points!

What continues to amaze me, I mean really amaze me, is that so many people here apparently can't see these things. I think quite a significant few still believe that Bitcoin is going to be banned in the US. I guess it takes time for things to seep in, as a year or two ago that a US ban appeared to be on the cards.

What is happening now is that government advisors, think tanks, etc. not just in the US but in the UK and other countries, are receiving information that is leading them to conclude that Bitcoin is just tipping right now into an extremely viral situation, and they are scrambling to make sure that they benefit from this. Just like the Chinese government understands that Bitcoin is on the verge of going viral in China, and they are moving quickly to control it in a tighter way (but I believe they will allow it to continue for the foreseeable future). Two approaches to the same understanding - things are going to move fast.

                                                                               
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January 18, 2014, 05:45:44 PM
 #38

Thanks for your approvement

What continues to amaze me, I mean really amaze me, is that so many people here apparently can't see these things.
it does surprise me as well.
To many People are talking and writing about my NO-GO-WORDS:

chrash
bubble
collapse
end-game
doom
Rocket
Moon
Oort cloud

and to many are very shortsighted

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January 18, 2014, 05:49:15 PM
 #39

Are we at the moon yet? If not then later guys... wake me up when it's July




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January 18, 2014, 05:52:19 PM
 #40

Thanks for your approvement

What continues to amaze me, I mean really amaze me, is that so many people here apparently can't see these things.
it does surprise me as well.
To many People are talking and writing about my NO-GO-WORDS:

chrash
bubble
collapse
end-game
doom
Rocket
Moon
Oort cloud

and to many are very shortsighted



I hope everyone tries to use their own common sense when looking at Bitcoin and what will happen this year, and not rely on the madness they find here!  Smiley

But I must admit to getting somewhat carried away by all the "CCMF" when things get going though! It's irresistable!  Cheesy

                                                                               
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