Paul Grignon Just made Bitcoin killer

[cbeast]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

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[sublime5447]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

   

[cbeast]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoin^copyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds.

[bitrider]

Sweet. Well said.

[Xav]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

   

So, you "see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity", but you seem unable to calculate the current value of one BTC ( 12 million in total today) related to that RICI-system? If you want a 'controlled currency' based upon the current state of an economy then you should have means to calculate its current value! Why would anyone believe you as long as you refuse to give an answer?

[cdog]

To ask the question again - what stops defaults from happening in this wonderful world?   

If the answer is "trust" them I'm out. 

The same thing that keeps every market honest. Feedback. Only producers with verifiable credit history will be allowed to issue credit.

Hows that working out with the US Govt? Doesnt seem like they are acting too responsibly to me.

[sublime5447]

To ask the question again - what stops defaults from happening in this wonderful world?   

If the answer is "trust" them I'm out. 

The same thing that keeps every market honest. Feedback. Only producers with verifiable credit history will be allowed to issue credit.

Hows that working out with the US Govt? Doesnt seem like they are acting too responsibly to me.

Government isnt a market, government is a monopoly.

[sublime5447]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

   

So, you "see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity", but you seem unable to calculate the current value of one BTC ( 12 million in total today) related to that RICI-system? If you want a 'controlled currency' based upon the current state of an economy then you should have means to calculate its current value! Why would anyone believe you as long as you refuse to give an answer?

Do your own math.

[sublime5447]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoin^copyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds.

The protocol is not proprietary, they wont use bit dust they will use visa dust.

[Adrian-x]

... Basically real currency not this fake bitcoin shit.

Knew it! 5447 had a preexisting bias.

I too have a bias, but unfortunately the p2p decentralized blockchain still trumps any rules governing a centralized alternate.

[Xav]

Do your own math.

Wow, great answer. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your kindness and your insightful contributions on this board.

BTW maybe one day you will find out that a definition for a unit of currency does not solve anything and maybe you will realize sooner or later that 21 million BTC (a little less actually) neatly define the value of the world wide Bitcoin economy, which is all 'we' need ! Good luck, anyway.

[cbeast]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. 

Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoin^copyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds.

The protocol is not proprietary, they wont use bit dust they will use visa dust.

What is 'visa dust?' Does Visa have a fraud resistant network?

[sublime5447]

Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.

I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington.  

Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoin^copyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds.

The protocol is not proprietary, they wont use bit dust they will use visa dust.

What is 'visa dust?' Does Visa have a fraud resistant network?

Ya they have an existing network and they could build one that works off shaw 256 hashing no problem. Visa doesnt need the bitcoin network it will just create its own network.

[sublime5447]

I don't trust anyone who turns off ratings and comments; the only people who do this realize they'd be negatively impacted if they turned them on.

He turned on the comments

[sublime5447]

... Basically real currency not this fake bitcoin shit.

Knew it! 5447 had a preexisting bias.

I too have a bias, but unfortunately the p2p decentralized blockchain still trumps any rules governing a centralized alternate.

Not sure what you mean I went into bitcoin with an open mind and a lot of enthusiasm. I spend 12k on a litecoin mining operation and started a business buying and selling bitcoin for paypal. I have done over 1 k transactions. I am a show me kinda person and bitcoin showed me why it wont work and what is wrong with deflationary currency
 

[Adrian-x]

... Basically real currency not this fake bitcoin shit.

Knew it! 5447 had a preexisting bias.

I too have a bias, but unfortunately the p2p decentralized blockchain still trumps any rules governing a centralized alternate.

Not sure what you mean I went into bitcoin with an open mind and a lot of enthusiasm. I spend 12k on a litecoin mining operation and started a business buying and selling bitcoin for paypal. I have done over 1 k transactions. I am a show me kinda person and bitcoin showed me why it wont work and what is wrong with deflationary currency
 

Paul Grignon’s solution is centralised, i.e. has a central point of frailer. One of the biggest flours in the system generally speaking is viability of credits, you don’t want to start by making debt, you want to start by saving, savings are deferred consumption, and create excess, and resilience in an economy, time spent doing the wrong thing on credit is wasteful yet it is how most of the sheep in his system will be paid.

Entrepreneurs on the other hand power the economy and generally there live life like this:
 From years 0-25 they are a liability (being educated) from 25-35 years they are very productive, form 35-45 they start to do a little profit taking, from 45-55 they hold my weight in the economy, from 55-85 they become a liability.  Now if entrepreneur was a baker let’s say and he issued most of his IOU’s during his 30’s-50’s they will come back for redemption during his retired years and he will default. 

 I’m more a socialist, results oriented type, while Bitcoin is still inflating and the economy deflating it’s working for me, I know it is not perfect and if you have time for lunch I’ll show you how to supersede it. 

[DoomDumas]

seems like the same fundamental misunderstanding as the venus project people have. business to business barter could never take the place of money because it is necessary to have a heterogeneous unit of account inorder to have prices. Prices are necissary inorder to calculate profit and loss and inorder to account for opportunity costs. Calculating profit loss and opportunity costs is necessary in order to rationally allocate scarce resources and to communicate, in a useful way, the decentralized knowledge of individual market actors. Self issued credit is great, but it must be priced, and inorder to do this you need a widely understood unit of account.

so imagine trying to know how many shoes an elevator is worth, and how many elevators a mongoose is worth, and how many mongeese a cheeseburger is worth, with out using "money" as an intermediary step.

We dont need "bater/money/unit of account/price" to operate a global sustainable society.

The point is that "money/unit of account" are creating scarcity.  In a scientific point of view, there is no real scarcity, and ressources could be used in an efficient and intelligent way, or being replace by something else if there is not enought.

Without "money", the science and technologies would be allowed, and then everyone could live a much more descent life.

Many technologies are not availlable because they are not profitable.  Removing the notion of "bater for profit" then every car would be electric, and much better than actual cars.. Everyone would have access to free and clean energy, and no one would suffer from hunger or cold.  Money/batter, or better called "profit notion" is the source of the scarcity.

I think you just dont fully understand what the Venus Project/Zeitgeist movement have come to.

Many technologies are 100x better than actually availlable one, but not availlable because they cant be produced for profit.

Worse, "Money/Batter" forces competition, wich is not as good as cooperation.. Imagine if every Pharma Research Corp stop to keep their info secret, and they all regroup and share knowledge and ressources, Cancer, Aids, Ms and more would be cured ..

Money/Batter is the brake to evolution..

To be able to function without Batter, a majority of human on earth have to evolve their value, and this have to begins to education of our children !

[Ibian]

seems like the same fundamental misunderstanding as the venus project people have. business to business barter could never take the place of money because it is necessary to have a heterogeneous unit of account inorder to have prices. Prices are necissary inorder to calculate profit and loss and inorder to account for opportunity costs. Calculating profit loss and opportunity costs is necessary in order to rationally allocate scarce resources and to communicate, in a useful way, the decentralized knowledge of individual market actors. Self issued credit is great, but it must be priced, and inorder to do this you need a widely understood unit of account.

so imagine trying to know how many shoes an elevator is worth, and how many elevators a mongoose is worth, and how many mongeese a cheeseburger is worth, with out using "money" as an intermediary step.

We dont need "bater/money/unit of account/price" to operate a global sustainable society.

The point is that "money/unit of account" are creating scarcity.  In a scientific point of view, there is no real scarcity, and ressources could be used in an efficient and intelligent way, or being replace by something else if there is not enought.

Without "money", the science and technologies would be allowed, and then everyone could live a much more descent life.

Many technologies are not availlable because they are not profitable.  Removing the notion of "bater for profit" then every car would be electric, and much better than actual cars.. Everyone would have access to free and clean energy, and no one would suffer from hunger or cold.  Money/batter, or better called "profit notion" is the source of the scarcity.

I think you just dont fully understand what the Venus Project/Zeitgeist movement have come to.

Many technologies are 100x better than actually availlable one, but not availlable because they cant be produced for profit.

Worse, "Money/Batter" forces competition, wich is not as good as cooperation.. Imagine if every Pharma Research Corp stop to keep their info secret, and they all regroup and share knowledge and ressources, Cancer, Aids, Ms and more would be cured ..

Money/Batter is the brake to evolution..

To be able to function without Batter, a majority of human on earth have to evolve their value, and this have to begins to education of our children !

[thaaanos]

That reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy.
If you assume a culture that a gift/favour generates a moral obligation or say a moral Debt.
Essentially you are storing wealth on your network rather on your wallet, that means the less you have the more you can potentially recieve
That of course requires the network to impose a high cost of a No network-effect to the players that decide to become selfish.

[GigaCoin]

i didnt watch the video yet, but as per your description isn't there already a coin called "elacoin" that does the whole elastic crap ?