I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too

[Eamorr]

Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead.

I'd delete "Peercoin" too.

I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind).

I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it.

We aren't discussing your feeling but the facts. Come back when you have data.

Have a look at some of the marketcap indicators:

http://coinmarketcap.com/
https://www.coingecko.com/

I just cannot see how NXT won't drop down the table. NXT is treading water (at best) at the moment.

It has weakened in marketshare but if you look at my data above it isn't doing as bad as an ecosystem as I thought.

NXT's USP is anonymity. I don't see how NXT can ever become mainstream and jump over all the regulatory hurdles.

It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP.

[Come-from-Beyond]

As long as everyone is clear that we have changed the topic than the NxT currency ecosystem market share analysis would be changed to this:

   Bitcoin  - ecosystem market cap - hard to estimate because so much but at least 4 billion
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0
https://cryptostocks.com/
http://mpex.co/
http://www.coindesk.com/venture-capital-funding-bitcoin-startups-triples-2014/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-venture-capital/

   Ripple - 482.5 m + min 8 mill VC - 490+ m

        PayCoin - 37.5 m +~10m to 100m GAW(who knows how much assets they have with the lies but they def are a decent sized company) = 47.5 m to 137.5 m

   Litecoin 47 m
   
   BitShares 25.9 m +0.9 m assets = 26.8 million

   Nxt - between 22.5 - 25? million ( those hidden assets have non verifiable investments , but most look small)
   
   Stellar -- 16.8+ some big names backing the project but undisclosed investments    
   
   Dogecoin - 13.5 m

So with this new question , the market-share of the complete NxT ecosystem has dropped from #4 to either tied for 5 (Bitshares) or 6.

This is incorrect numbers because market-share includes only assets available on the market, every position in CMC should have market cap reduced 10-fold, or maybe even 30-fold.

So, at this point it should be obvious that noone is able to measure market capitalization of Nxt and other cryptos because info is simply unavailable (aye, non-transparency is a disadvantage of an unregulated economy). As we see CMC doesn't reflect real state of things and shouldn't be taken into account. We should take other parameters if we want to compare cryptos. Development progress was already discussed. Do you have anything else in mind?

[inBitweTrust]

So, at this point it should be obvious that noone is able to measure market capitalization of Nxt and other cryptos because info is simply unavailable (aye, non-transparency is a disadvantage of an unregulated economy). As we see CMC doesn't reflect real state of things and shouldn't be taken into account. We should take other parameters if we want to compare cryptos. Development progress was already discussed. Do you have anything else in mind?

Well being that this is off-topic as we were originally discussing the NxT currency, and that adding those variables really won't change the order(just increase the valuations) I would suggest we drop it as I don't feel like derailing the thread further into an overly and impossible analysis.

Many of those assets and securities look sketchy as hell but than again Bitcoin is also filled with ponzi's and con artists so that is not a attack towards NxT but our whole ecosystem. 

I will admit again that going through these numbers made me see NxT as only slightly losing marketshare to be fair. If NxT plays their cards right this is how I predict the marketshare landscape to be in 2 years-

1 Bitcoin
2 Ripple
3 Ethereum
4  (Black swan coin)
5  Maidsafe or Factom
6 Stellar
7  Counterparty
8  Bitshares
9  Nxt
10 Litecoin
11 Dogecoin
12 Storj
 

[TaunSew]

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

[inBitweTrust]

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-core-developer-jeff-garzik-believes-nxt-is-a-scamcoin/


    It is marketed like a scammy penny stock. ---] Could be suggest of any alt or bitcoin itself.

    Anon early super large stakeholders + Proof-Of-Stake == the big guys run the table, if they choose. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf  The central bankers are in place from Day One unless they are super-virtuous and give tons away “fairly.” -- This is a valid concern

    Anonymous developers  - Satoshi was anomynous but most of his code was audited and changed by non-anomynous devs. Another valid concern

    Closed developing process.  Source is periodically handed down from the ivory tower to the masses.--  -I don't know if this is still the case? Can anyone contribute code?

    Certain notable personages (& key stakeholders) that dodge, dodge, dodge, when an obvious attack vector — mitigated in other crypto-finance projects by known techniques — is highlighted.  -True , but the same could be said about many in denial about PoW weaknesses

    Active resistance to making it easier to independently reproduce the software -Exageratted?

    Technical criticism is routinely met with bizarre behavior (notably from come-from-beyond) -Ad Hominem?

   Attacking critics, rather than responding to criticism. -- everyone gets defensive about their projects

    Several security incidents that smell like inside jobs. --

[EvilDave]

The NXT community did spend quite a long time last year refuting all of the above......:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/a-longer-reply-to-jeff-garzik/

A few points to mention:

Large stakeholders: just like every other crypto, NXT is probably better distributed than most.

Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous.
Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto.

Source is open, anyone can contribute (met a guy a few weeks ago at a BTC meet, got into a chat, turned out he had contributed code to the contacts system in NXT core).
Development code for upcoming stuff is not open, production code is completely open.

Active resistance: look at the number of NXT clones. We simply don't give a flying f**k on this point (mostly).

Security incidents: one scam centered around Cointropolis (round 50 BTC) and the BTER hack. In a year.
Both attacks were purely based on social engineering and shitty password security, there was never any breach of NXT code itself.

[inBitweTrust]

The NXT community did spend quite a long time last year refuting all of the above......:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/a-longer-reply-to-jeff-garzik/

A few points to mention:

Large stakeholders: just like every other crypto, NXT is probably better distributed than most.

Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous.
Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto.

Source is open, anyone can contribute (met a guy a few weeks ago at a BTC meet, got into a chat, turned out he had contributed code to the contacts system in NXT core).
Development code for upcoming stuff is not open, production code is completely open.

Active resistance: look at the number of NXT clones. We simply don't give a flying f**k on this point (mostly).

Security incidents: one scam centered around Cointropolis (round 50 BTC) and the BTER hack. In a year.
Both attacks were purely based on social engineering and shitty password security, there was never any breach of NXT code itself.

Thanks, for the link. The discussion in that thread actually made me believe that I was being overly defensive of NxT, and some major concerns expressed by Jeff are unresolved. I wouldn't call NxT a scamcoin though , but can certainly understand why Jeff reacted as such with those responses.

[Come-from-Beyond]

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

Hehe, I was curious what our UtopianFuture was doing... Haven't seen you for ages!

[Come-from-Beyond]

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism:

Jeff "Hashes do not match" Garzik is famous for attacking all competitors of his projects. Here is one of the recent - https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/554675231798099968. The fact that the guy endorsing government regulation on cryptocurrencies (his BitSat is completely govt controlled) raises a big red flag over Bitcoin and Bitpay.

[inBitweTrust]

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism:

Jeff "Hashes do not match" Garzik is famous for attacking all competitors of his projects. Here is one of the recent - https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/554675231798099968. The fact that the guy endorsing government regulation on cryptocurrencies (his BitSat is completely govt controlled) raises a big red flag over Bitcoin and Bitpay.

Seems like Jeff is certainly extremely biased towards bitcoin, which is no surprise. This doesn't make his criticisms invalid by default but should make one wary about him over-exaggerating certain claims in favor of Bitcoin. As far as his politics are concerned he is "libertarian-lite" so he is in the camp that government and regulations are needed but is skeptical of big government.

[toknormal]

It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP.

What have "dark currencies" got to do with criminals ?

For a start, criminals don't use crypto, they use the US dollar.

Secondly, most people in the world prefer to keep their banking details out of the public domain. Whether the accounts are anonymous is beside the point - the transactions are not. If you're saying that makes everyone a "criminal" then I don't think you've thought very much about this issue.

Thirdly, commercial entities such as retailers, service providers and manufacturers consider cashflow information to be competitively sensitive. Are you saying that makes them criminals as well - the whole lot of them ?

Please people put 2 brain cells together before opening your mouths and letting your bellies rumble about this "anonymous cryptos are for criminals" crap.

[LiQio]

Seems like Jeff is certainly extremely biased towards bitcoin, which is no surprise. This doesn't make his criticisms invalid by default but should make one wary about him over-exaggerating certain claims in favor of Bitcoin. As far as his politics are concerned he is "libertarian-lite" so he is in the camp that government and regulations are needed but is skeptical of big government.

Just for the record: he was "kinda sorta libertarian" now transformed to "failed libertarian"

Source: https://twitter.com/jgarzik (and twitter account 3 month ago)

[Eamorr]

It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP.

What have "dark currencies" got to do with criminals ?

For a start, criminals don't use crypto, they use the US dollar.

Secondly, most people in the world prefer to keep their banking details out of the public domain. Whether the accounts are anonymous is beside the point - the transactions are not. If you're saying that makes everyone a "criminal" then I don't think you've thought very much about this issue.

Thirdly, commercial entities such as retailers, service providers and manufacturers consider cashflow information to be competitively sensitive. Are you saying that makes them criminals as well - the whole lot of them ?

Please people put 2 brain cells together before opening your mouths and letting your bellies rumble about this "anonymous cryptos are for criminals" crap.

Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere.

That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too".

I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better.

Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency.

It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand.

[microbial]

i keep my nxt anyway

[achimsmile]

it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency.

government != the world.

People are the world, and they should care if they want the government and the banks to control their wealth.

[Eamorr]

it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency.

government != the world.

People are the world, and they should care if they want the government and the banks to control their wealth.

Great.

If you want to go be a commie/hippie/libertarian/whatever-you're-having-yourself, off you go and conquer your own territory. There's nothing stopping you.

If you want to change the country you live in according to your personal views -- off you go and change it then. Nothing stopping you doing that either. Just don't expect anyone to listen to you.

If you want to live in an off-grid Mormon commune, put all your wealth into NXT, run FreeBSD and access the internet through a VPN out of Iceland, best of luck with everything.

[Come-from-Beyond]

...but it cannot be the world's currency.

None of the currencies can be the world's currency. History books say so.

[EvilDave]

Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere.

That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too".

I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better.

Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency.

It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand.

@Eamorr:
I need to point out that you are replying to a massively ancient thread. NWO (the OP) started this in Jan 2014, a few weeks after NXTs launch.
Hopefully, he'll have finished his 50,000 NXT dump by now.

Also: Ripple isn't really a crypto-currency..........so removal from CMC sounds like a good idea.

You seem to be missing a very large aspect of Nxt: it's not just a crypto-currency, but a complete platform for crypto-based finance. The ultimate aim of Nxt is not to have the NXT currency at #1 on CMC (though that would be nice) but to provide people with a genuinely usable alternative to the current financial system.
Just like Bitcoin, in fact, but Nxt provides users with more features/tools than just the basic store/transfer functionality of BTC.


@inBitweTrust:

Having spent some time going thru the Jeff Garzik critique of NXT (and the replies from the NXT community), the only genuinely valid point of Jeffs criticism was to do with the development process for NXT code.
Right now we only have one dev team contributing to NXT core protocols and main client, Jeffs point was that in order to be truly de-centralised NXT needs to have multiple independent teams contributing to the core, as per open-source ideals. Cant argue with that and it would be a good thing. However,  NXT is still evolving. Given another year or two, and we probably will have multiple dev teams on the core development process.

Pretty much all of the rest of Jeffs points didn't stand up to scrutiny, most being based on Jeffs opinion, rather than any verifiable facts..
  

[Eamorr]

Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere.

That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too".

I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better.

Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency.

It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand.

@Eamorr:
I need to point out that you are replying to a massively ancient thread. NWO (the OP) started this in Jan 2014, a few weeks after NXTs launch.
Hopefully, he'll have finished his 50,000 NXT dump by now.

Also: Ripple isn't really a crypto-currency..........so removal from CMC sounds like a good idea.

You seem to be missing a very large aspect of Nxt: it's not just a crypto-currency, but a complete platform for crypto-based finance. The ultimate aim of Nxt is not to have the NXT currency at #1 on CMC (though that would be nice) but to provide people with a genuinely usable alternative to the current financial system.
Just like Bitcoin, in fact, but Nxt provides users with more features/tools than just the basic store/transfer functionality of BTC.


@inBitweTrust:

Having spent some time going thru the Jeff Garzik critique of NXT (and the replies from the NXT community), the only genuinely valid point of Jeffs criticism was to do with the development process for NXT code.
Right now we only have one dev team contributing to NXT core protocols and main client, Jeffs point was that in order to be truly de-centralised NXT needs to have multiple independent teams contributing to the core, as per open-source ideals. Cant argue with that and it would be a good thing. However,  NXT is still evolving. Given another year or two, and we probably will have multiple dev teams on the core development process.

Pretty much all of the rest of Jeffs points didn't stand up to scrutiny, most being based on Jeffs opinion, rather than any verifiable facts..
  

The OP, NWO (I can only assume NWO stands for "New World Order"), is a nutter. Every time you talk to someone plugging NXT, you soon find out that there's a high probability they have a store of beans and ammo, believe 9-11 was an inside job and hate all forms of government.

This mindset is deeply embedded into the NXT community. Even a fork would never rid the project of this mentality.

[Daedelus]

Hello UP, it has been a while. You gave yourself away very early on this time