[AUTOTRADE]BTC hedge fund by BtcAutoTrader(The first automated BTC hedge fund)

[thy]

What did the message Autotrade sent out say ? i havent got it yet.

Why would any investor want there shares to be bought back by the issuer, a stock that is working good is not something that people want to sell back for the price they bought it for ?

And a buyback would not work in this case anyway unless the issuer is prepared to offer more than the last batches price for the shares, so it would have to be above 0.001 per share as people that bought at 0.001 will hardly be interested to sell there shares back at 0.00075 or anything less than 0.001 for that matter.

There is also no buyback clause in the contract with the shareholders so thats not even a viable option, it would be a breach of contract as would a upgrade to something else with a different contract be.

[bentleysui]

<Dividend Paid>Total dividend 16.88BTC.

交易时间：2014/4/14-2014/4/20(GMT+8)
交易货币：LTC、XPM、DOGE
合计利润：21.09BTC
分红总额：21.09*80%=16.87BTC

Transaction time : 2014/4/14-2014/4/20(GMT+8)
Currencies : LTC、XPM、DOGE
Total profits :  21.09BTC
Totol dividends :  21.09*80%=16.87BTC

Best regards.
BtcAutoTrader Team

[bentleysui]

Dear investors,

We heard your opinions and ideas from the discussion and reply, our interpretation as follows:

"lynn_402" advise us to augment our share of the profit, "davos" said that we could release a new tranche of shares, in the meantime we know that many investors want us not to sell BtcAutoTrader.
 
Thank you for your advic and response! Now due to the imbalance of operation, we are trying to seek the necessary change, and guaranteed benefits for all investors, make the company get better development in the industry.

If conform and obey to everyone's opinions and thoughts, the company will be confined to the earnings and field. This is why we decided to sell BtcAutoTrader and sold it to AUTOTRADE investors priority, we hope that this profit can be mastered by yourself, then we will have more energy to research and develop other new products, such as exchange website. In fact, we have a very good idea, we can guarantee that the exchange  we will develop is absolutely different.

If we sold BtcAutoTrader, for guarantee your profit, we may buy back the issued AUTOTRADE at the right time. If you do not want us buy back, wo also could make the AUTOTRADE upgrade for the shares of our company, as long as most shareholders agreed that.

We also considered the other model of development, make our company entire IPO (havelock is a better choice?), and we could take the part of the money used in the company's daily operations, part of the money was used for continue to arbitrage, part of the money was used for the BtcAutoTrader development and sales
(without arbitrage function), part of the money was used for research and development of new products. We are willing to open to the board, equitable distribution of income to the shareholders.

All in all, welcome your ideas and advice, we do not want to damage the interests of any investors, thank you for your support, let us together to seek common development hand in hand in this business.

[superbit]

I'm still confused, do I need to do anything with my shares?

[lynn_402]

What did the message Autotrade sent out say ? i havent got it yet.

All who did not receive the e-mail may PM me, I'll transfer the PDF.

[junkonator]

lynn_402 can't you just pastebin it? If you dont want to make it public please pm me a pastebin copy. Why isn't this public anyway?

[lynn_402]

lynn_402 can't you just pastebin it? If you dont want to make it public please pm me a pastebin copy. Why isn't this public anyway?

I'm not affiliated with Autotrade so I don't have the authority to make it public. Sent you the text.

[lynn_402]

Autotrade, since you are working at a loss, where is the loss paid from? Is it held from the employees salary or are the funds from IPO used to cover for that? The constancy of the dividends payouts seem to indicate that your employees are taking the loss, but I'd like a confirmation on this.

In any case, you should not pay dividends when working at a deficit - this can bring nothing good long-term.

[novaboy2k]

Autotrade is earning me about 85% return on investment annually, 0 problems with dividends, and its selling 40% less than IPO price at the moment...

Where are all the investors?

[lynn_402]

Autotrade is earning me about 85% return on investment annually, 0 problems with dividends, and its selling 40% less than IPO price at the moment...

Where are all the investors?

Haven't you received their statement by e-mail? They get 50000 RMB per week, but their expenses are 100000. They are losing money, and won't be able to pay out dividends for long if drastic measures are not taken. Paying dividends while a company is losing money is a bad move, hence the lack of investors' confidence at the moment.

[davos]

【Income estimation】
   【LTC hedging】
      We will hedge 2000 LTC everyday, assuming a net profit of each hedge is 0.0005 BTC, the net margin is 1BTC
   【XPM hedging】
      We will hedge 5000XPM everyday, assuming a net profit of each hedge is 0.0004 BTC, the net margin is 2BTC.
      Each dividend of each week is (1+2)*7*0.8/1000000=0.0000168BTC.
      Each dividend of each year is (1+2)*365*0.8/1000000=0.000876BTC。
      Annual return is 0.000876/0.0006=146%(lowest price to buy)
      Annual return is 0.000876/0.001=87.6%(highest price to buy)   
We will hedge more Crypto-Currency type according to the market condition in the future, and the AutoTrader will be optimal to raise efficiency.

The actual payment of dividends for this fund tracks this "estimation" with a nearly perfect linear correlation [0.98] with the amount of invested capital in the fund at the time of the dividend payment.

This suggests to me that the dividend payment has no necessary relationship with any profit/loss realized from trading activities.


I'm not really interested in throwing stones - and my financial exposure to this is almost non-existant - but I think an accounting of the business balance sheet and the current disposition of invested capital may be in order here.


(Y Axis represents the growth of each to the initial recorded amount, X Axis are dividend periods)

[novaboy2k]

【Income estimation】
   【LTC hedging】
      We will hedge 2000 LTC everyday, assuming a net profit of each hedge is 0.0005 BTC, the net margin is 1BTC
   【XPM hedging】
      We will hedge 5000XPM everyday, assuming a net profit of each hedge is 0.0004 BTC, the net margin is 2BTC.
      Each dividend of each week is (1+2)*7*0.8/1000000=0.0000168BTC.
      Each dividend of each year is (1+2)*365*0.8/1000000=0.000876BTC。
      Annual return is 0.000876/0.0006=146%(lowest price to buy)
      Annual return is 0.000876/0.001=87.6%(highest price to buy)   
We will hedge more Crypto-Currency type according to the market condition in the future, and the AutoTrader will be optimal to raise efficiency.

The actual payment of dividends for this fund tracks this "estimation" with a nearly perfect linear correlation [0.98] with the amount of invested capital in the fund at the time of the dividend payment.

This suggests to me that the dividend payment has no necessary relationship with any profit/loss realized from trading activities.


I'm not really interested in throwing stones - and my financial exposure to this is almost non-existant - but I think an accounting of the business balance sheet and the current disposition of invested capital may be in order here.


(Y Axis represents the growth of each to the initial recorded amount, X Axis are dividend periods)

I completely agree..

I understand they use the bitcoins from IPO sales to invest and that if the price of bitcoin goes down there revenue in fiat goes down. The payment of bitcoin in dividends is steady but obviously the dollar value has gone down which can mess your business model up.

But to claim a 50%- deficit i just find hard to believe.

Release of some accounting be appreciated.

[lynn_402]

I completely agree..

I understand they use the bitcoins from IPO sales to invest and that if the price of bitcoin goes down there revenue in fiat goes down. The payment of bitcoin in dividends is steady but obviously the dollar value has gone down which can mess your business model up.

But to claim a 50%- deficit i just find hard to believe.

Release of some accounting be appreciated.

From the e-mail sent to share holders:
"We have encountered a problem although the AUTOTRADE is in earnings, in accordance with
the calculation of each participating is 20% of trading profits, the current profits can not
afford our operating costs. According to the latest four dividends, our total dividends income
is (20.96+20.74+20.07+19.6)*20%=16.274BTC, converting to RMB is about
16.274*3000=48822, which can not pay eight team members’ salary, in addition, office area,
computer depletion, water and electricity fee, internet fee and many other operating charges,
by our rough calculation ,the operating costs of each month is more than one hundred
thousand, the deficits will persistent even though one million of AUTOTRADE have been sold
out."

Clearly that is unsustainable.

[superbit]

I completely agree..

I understand they use the bitcoins from IPO sales to invest and that if the price of bitcoin goes down there revenue in fiat goes down. The payment of bitcoin in dividends is steady but obviously the dollar value has gone down which can mess your business model up.

But to claim a 50%- deficit i just find hard to believe.

Release of some accounting be appreciated.

From the e-mail sent to share holders:
"We have encountered a problem although the AUTOTRADE is in earnings, in accordance with
the calculation of each participating is 20% of trading profits, the current profits can not
afford our operating costs. According to the latest four dividends, our total dividends income
is (20.96+20.74+20.07+19.6)*20%=16.274BTC, converting to RMB is about
16.274*3000=48822, which can not pay eight team members’ salary, in addition, office area,
computer depletion, water and electricity fee, internet fee and many other operating charges,
by our rough calculation ,the operating costs of each month is more than one hundred
thousand, the deficits will persistent even though one million of AUTOTRADE have been sold
out."

Clearly that is unsustainable.

Sounds like way too big of a team for what this really is.

[lynn_402]

Sounds like way too big of a team for what this really is.

Well, they do need a team that includes market analysts, a technician, a manager, and they also need to have partners overseas for arbitrage.
I think the main problem is the too high dividend percentage that goes to share holders and/or too small investment capital.
They did mentioned they are looking for VCs, hope they'll succeed since their business does have potential.

[tricomp]

I need some clarifications with regards to your new plan to sell client version of BTCAutotrader.

I just could not quite fully understand the English translation you provided

1.   Are you forming a new company or is it being sold under the same company you used to sell 1 million IPO shares of BTCAutotrader/Arbitrage Fund

2.   The free shares being given for pre-buying the client BTCAutotrader, are they for a new company or the same shares that you just concluded in IPO. In other words are they the same shares as  the one sold in the IPO.

3.   You just raised IPO funds under the guise that you have a proprietary application that will be used for the benefit of the fund. On completion of your raising your IPO funds, you now decide to allow 2000 users to compete with your funds because the 20% that you unilaterally decided to have for management of the fund is not enough for you. Obvioulsy having more competition is going to decrease the profitability of the future arbitrage profit of the fund. This seems highly unfair. You may wish to ask shareholders to decide if you should have an increased management fee instead of unleashing 2000 competitors on them.

[tricomp]

BTC AutoTrader  share price seems to be in free fall on CryptoStocks, following the management announcement and the release of IPO . All  Ask prices are below the lowest IPO price. Management needs to stop the bleeding by withdrawing their plan. It just cannot work. You cant sell 1 million shares based on using a  proprietary application and then all of sudden commoditize the same application. With regards to  operational cost, an increase of the management fee should be put to shareholder vote ASAP.  CoinReturn Financial , another Cryptostock  involved in technical trading of cryptos. collects a 35% management fee, so an increase in management fee is more than appropriate , especially to cover salaries.

However, a major question  will still need to be answered by the management. Do you need all these eight people to run this operation. It seems a bit over-staffed.

[thy]

I completely agree..

I understand they use the bitcoins from IPO sales to invest and that if the price of bitcoin goes down there revenue in fiat goes down. The payment of bitcoin in dividends is steady but obviously the dollar value has gone down which can mess your business model up.

But to claim a 50%- deficit i just find hard to believe.

Release of some accounting be appreciated.

From the e-mail sent to share holders:
"We have encountered a problem although the AUTOTRADE is in earnings, in accordance with
the calculation of each participating is 20% of trading profits, the current profits can not
afford our operating costs. According to the latest four dividends, our total dividends income
is (20.96+20.74+20.07+19.6)*20%=16.274BTC, converting to RMB is about
16.274*3000=48822, which can not pay eight team members’ salary, in addition, office area,
computer depletion, water and electricity fee, internet fee and many other operating charges,
by our rough calculation ,the operating costs of each month is more than one hundred
thousand, the deficits will persistent even though one million of AUTOTRADE have been sold
out."

Clearly that is unsustainable.

Seems like the main problem is that the current low price per btc, currently at around 480 usd/btc 3120 RMB/BTC, in the future when the price per btc is back at or above the 1000 usd/btc 6000 RMB/BTC level there will not be any problem, why not just temporary charge a higher(in percent/btc) management fee until the btcprice is back at a level where 20% fee would be enouth.
If you now charge something like 35-45% depending on what the current btc price is each week when the price is around 480/520 btc the problem would be solved and you would be able to take out the nessesary funds 100 000 RMB mentioned to pay your expenses and the dividend would still be at around 0.00001300 btc per share each week and when btcprice starts to climb again you can gradually charge less and less % until your back at the 20% level again, problem solved....

[superresistant]

Seems like the main problem is that the current low price per btc, currently at around 480 usd/btc 3120 RMB/BTC, in the future when the price per btc is back at or above the 1000 usd/btc 6000 RMB/BTC level there will not be any problem, why not just temporary charge a higher(in percent/btc) management fee until the btcprice is back at a level where 20% fee would be enouth.
If you now charge something like 35-45% depending on what the current btc price is each week when the price is around 480/520 btc the problem would be solved and you would be able to take out the nessesary funds 100 000 RMB mentioned to pay your expenses and the dividend would still be at around 0.00001300 btc per share each week and when btcprice starts to climb again you can gradually charge less and less % until your back at the 20% level again, problem solved....

Exactly.

[thy]

BTC AutoTrader  share price seems to be in free fall on CryptoStocks, following the management announcement and the release of IPO . All  Ask prices are below the lowest IPO price. Management needs to stop the bleeding by withdrawing their plan. It just cannot work. You cant sell 1 million shares based on using a  proprietary application and then all of sudden commoditize the same application. With regards to  operational cost, an increase of the management fee should be put to shareholder vote ASAP.  CoinReturn Financial , another Cryptostock  involved in technical trading of cryptos. collects a 35% management fee, so an increase in management fee is more than appropriate , especially to cover salaries.

However, a major question  will still need to be answered by the management. Do you need all these eight people to run this operation. It seems a bit over-staffed.

The price on cryptostocks for the autotrade stock is redicules at the moment, some people is clearly manipulating the price to try to take advantage of people panicselling shares. A loss of around 4 btc per week on the expences side when the stock still pays out 16-17 btc each week does not motivate the price to drop down to 30% when the company actually makes 12-13 btc profit for the shareholders each week with all expenses paid, there should still be 760 out of the 800 btc raised capital in the company so if people would like to trade the stock at around 95% of the price, 0.0000950, that would be more resonable than trading it at 0.0000320 or some silly low price.