mtgox and bruce wagner

[MagicalTux]

My first post yes. Been reading the forums for ages. But I feel it neccessary to state one simple demand to mtgox and the current situation about bruce wagner. Please stop sponsoring this proven con man (and most likely affiliated with mybitcoin.com - tod williams tom williams). I desire an official statement from mtgox that they are in no way associated with this asshole. If that is not possible to produce then one question is left, why? The reason for this post is Bruce Wagners latest bitcoin show where he states that he is in tokyo to visit mtgox. Make it official that this guy is in no way on the good side with bitcoins biggest trading site.

And please no posts that this is a newbs forum, first post so no choice on my part. I had to make this post to relieve my worries about the continuation of being affiliated with this scammer.

This is not an official statement, there is not enough information at this point for such a thing. I'll try to expose our views at this point.

For information we are not "sponsoring" Bruce Wagner, we are buying advertising on the Bitcoin Show as many others have been doing or are doing, which was (until now) the only show about bitcoins to have enough viewers to start to be interesting.

Many new things have appeared during on the forum during the past 2 or 3 days, so I'll list - quickly - those here:

• About thailand "boys", the evidence produced so far is far from being anything to worry about. We know Bruce is homosexual, as he's open about this, but this has nothing to do with bitcoins. It seems from what I saw that Thailand is more "gay-friendly" than USA and it could explain Bruce's presence there and why he likes that country. Anyway without more evidence there is nothing we can decide there.
• Bruce ran Bold Funding, which was unable to do what it claims to do. He was caught and judged for this, and I believe the justice does its thing. I know Bruce have been handling a lot of funds for bitcoin users while promoting it, and I never heard of him running with someone's cash (would have been easy enough). I didn't know what he did, but I know he did a great job in promoting bitcoins, allowing people to buy coins with cash without ever defrauding anyone.
• About the case in NY and some guy asking $500k in 2008, that case seems to be closed, open again, ... anyway it's not settled yet, and I'm wondering a bit about the guy on the other side. As long as the case is not settled there's no way to know who's wrong, and considering how long this have been running I wouldn't think it's anything serious.
• Finally about Bruce's affiliation with MyBitcoin, this is quite amusing. Not only this is highly unlikely considering technical details on the way MyBitcoin was run, but the "link" (TodWilliams?) is the most ridiculous thing I ever saw.

We are however aware of the image problem this represents, both for us and the bitcoin community as a whole, and are considering which steps should be taken in the future.

I do think that everyone around here are slightly too busy reading about Bruce (I don't know about you but I'm already bored of this) and ignoring some more important things happening on Bitcoin. We are about to start service for Bitomat users and open multi currency support, among other things, and various things are moving within the bitcoin community.

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[JonHind]

I've been thinking about switching exchanges for a while. I no longer trust your company or judgements any more after this thread. Thanks for the 9 months worth of business. I'll trust my money elsewhere.

[Edit] You said: "I never heard of him running with someone's cash"

I think that was the sentence that killed it for me. He ran away with desperate people's cash after offering them a mortgage service that he had no intention of keeping. He was tried in absentia, and he has not paid the money that he was ordered to by the courts nor did he pay a penny in compensation to his victims.

They must love watching Bruce with all his toys and his posh NY apartment and TV studio and his jet-setting lifestyle.

If you can't see that Bruce is a confidence trickster, then it is your loss. I'm out.

[Revalin]

Thank you MagicalTux for being sensible and level-headed amidst a mob with pitchforks and torches.  I'm not currently a customer, but I'm now considering it.

[Raoul Duke]

I've been thinking about switching exchanges for a while. I no longer trust your company or judgements any more after this thread. Thanks for the 9 months worth of business. I'll trust my money elsewhere.

Prove it you fool, that you ever made business with MtGox, and how much money you moved! For now, your statement is nothing more than white noise...

Or are you threatning them that you'll take your BTC 0.01 to another exchange? 

[Stalin-chan]

• Bruce ran Bold Funding, which was unable to do what it claims to do. He was caught and judged for this, and I believe the justice does its thing. I know Bruce have been handling a lot of funds for bitcoin users while promoting it, and I never heard of him running with someone's cash (would have been easy enough). I didn't know what he did, but I know he did a great job in promoting bitcoins, allowing people to buy coins with cash without ever defrauding anyone.

Bruce didn't run anything other than a mortgage scam that left dozens of people out in the cold.
Honestly this doesn't address any concerns, I don't think mtgox can be trusted with the business of the bitcoin community if they choose to associate with people who would make this community look bad like Bruce.

[Stalin-chan]

Honestly its scammers and shady business dealers like Bruce who make bitcoin a total niche currency that will never be useful at this rate.
How are we to convince people to use this currency when high up members of the community associate with these people.

If Bruce was the right fit for bitcoins he wouldn't have a forum filled with angry and confused people asking for answers that will never come.

[MagicalTux]

[Edit] You said: "I never heard of him running with someone's cash"

I think that was the sentence that killed it for me. He ran away with desperate people's cash after offering them a mortgage service that he had no intention of keeping. He was tried in absentia, and he has not paid the money that he was ordered to by the courts nor did he pay a penny in compensation to his victims.

What I know of Bruce is what he did for the past months in Bitcoin, and I never had any report of Bruce stealing anything from anyone during that time frame.

As I said, we do not have enough information at this point to make any decision, especially when it comes to Bold Funding. We are still investigating this on our own and will provide updates once we reach a conclusion.

[Stalin-chan]

[Edit] You said: "I never heard of him running with someone's cash"

I think that was the sentence that killed it for me. He ran away with desperate people's cash after offering them a mortgage service that he had no intention of keeping. He was tried in absentia, and he has not paid the money that he was ordered to by the courts nor did he pay a penny in compensation to his victims.

What I know of Bruce is what he did for the past months in Bitcoin, and I never had any report of Bruce stealing anything from anyone during that time frame.

As I said, we do not have enough information at this point to make any decision, especially when it comes to Bold Funding. We are still investigating this on our own and will provide updates once we reach a conclusion.

Once a scammer always a scammer, stop being so gullible. If you have such a good working relationship with Bruce please tell him to come to these forums and answer our questions. The truth is we DO have enough information you are just closing your eyes and hoping it goes away.

That information isn't going away until Bruce shows up here and actually ANSWERS questions.

[Stalin-chan]

First question is why did Bruce want to hold a bitcoin expo in Thailands number one scammer and child prostitution city??
He was so adamant in wanting to go to ONE specific town.
This town Pattaya is run by scammers, the local government and police are paid off by scammers and child pimps.
Do you want us to actually go into that city and patronise them??

[Stalin-chan]

Second question, if Bruce did not scam any innocent people (which would make him an awful human being and in the EXACT same class as the bankers and politicians bitcoin was designed to get away from), why did all the money dissapear?? How did Bruce magically get all this money and this huge stockpile of bitcoins??

How much do you actually even give Bruce for "sponsorship" for his show?? Do you pay for Bruces travel and his apartment?? What is Bruces job??

[Anonymous]

Are there any reliable exchanges that don't associate with known confidence scammers? I'm done with MTGox, especially if they're going to turn a blind eye to this. Bruce has become a giant blight on the face of Bitcoin, an example embodied of all the problems that we have yet to overcome with Bitcoin.

[MagicalTux]

Are there any reliable exchanges that don't associate with known confidence scammers? I'm done with MTGox, especially if they're going to turn a blind eye to this. Bruce has become a giant blight on the face of Bitcoin, an example embodied of all the problems that we have yet to overcome with Bitcoin.

We are not turning a blind eye. I am just saying that at this point we have no idea of the whole situation.

While it is likely we will stop advertising on OnlyOneTv following this incident, we cannot take this decision without having a better overview of the situation, which seems impossible at this point since everyone is more busy fighting.

Taking decision too quickly based solely on accusations amplified by a group of professional (veteran) trolls is probably the last thing any business should do.

[Stalin-chan]

Are there any reliable exchanges that don't associate with known confidence scammers? I'm done with MTGox, especially if they're going to turn a blind eye to this. Bruce has become a giant blight on the face of Bitcoin, an example embodied of all the problems that we have yet to overcome with Bitcoin.

We are not turning a blind eye. I am just saying that at this point we have no idea of the whole situation.

While it is likely we will stop advertising on OnlyOneTv following this incident, we cannot take this decision without having a better overview of the situation, which seems impossible at this point since everyone is more busy fighting.

Taking decision too quickly based solely on accusations amplified by a group of professional (veteran) trolls is probably the last thing any business should do.

I highly disagree, the information is scattered but it is there and we do have it. I'm not trying to be insulting but any claim that we don't have enough information is just willing ignorance at this point.

Here's what we do know, Bruce is a liar; he has lied to his past clients and has told a few lies even to us (you seriously cant give us your real age? you aren't 29.) Now we don't know if Bruce actually acted maliciously but hear this, bitcoin will need intelligent programmers and economists to survive. Bruce is neither of these he doesn't understand a single basic programming concept (Can you define a pointer Bruce?) and he has no idea how bitcoins even work, on top of this he is carrying a 300,000 dollar debt so he's clearly no economist.

This is not a man we want at the forefront of the community representing us receiving the money that we invested into bitcoins to sponsor his show.

In a true free market this man would be left in the cold wondering what happened not receiving sponsorships.

Hopefully free market justice will prevail and we will find an exchange that satisfies our needs, if you decide not to associate with untrustworthy individuals then we will be waiting.

I rest my case, if anyone wants to join me i'll be over here enjoying a latè with the invisible hand.

[JonHind]

As I said, we do not have enough information at this point to make any decision, especially when it comes to Bold Funding. We are still investigating this on our own and will provide updates once we reach a conclusion.

Did you read the official court judgement for the case? http://www.scribd.com/doc/63630294/Bruce-Wagner-Bold-Funding-Fraud-Judgement

It lists the people he scammed. It lists the lies he told them. It states that he was operating without a license. At the trial, their lawyer couldn't provide a SINGLE NAME of a person who was helped by the company, stating that none of these people could be traced. Considering that his company was meant to be helping people stay in their homes, it shows that this was a scam from the offset. He didn't even turn up for the this case, and he fled the state without paying a penny to anyone.

Now tell me if this is truly someone who can be trusted?

As for the other Bruce denialist who asked me to prove that I have large(ish) dealing with MtGox, I'm not the one who is a convicted fraudster who is wanting to set up a charity escrow account. I'm not the one who was promoting a company which ripped off 51%+ of people's savings. I'm not the one under this spotlight.

So I give up. There will always be people who will fight for Bruce, as bruce is a very good conman. I hope that none of you get burned. You can't say you haven't been warned.

[Stalin-chan]

So for now lets look at alternatives to Mtgox so users can start taking their coins off that exchange. So far the biggest contender is https://www.tradehill.com/

What do you guys think?

[JonHind]

So for now lets look at alternatives to Mtgox so users can start taking their coins off that exchange. So far the biggest contender is https://www.tradehill.com/

What do you guys think?

I'm going to transfer any cash funds to my account and my remaining BTC reserves to an offline usb stick.

Until this whole situation is resolved, I don't know who to trust.

One thing for certain is that I will be staying well away from people who, after the evidence that has been discovered, still rally around to protect Bruce.

[Edited to add] I'm not a troll either. I'm a professional IT specialist in my 40's.

[Stalin-chan]

That's probably the best course of action at the moment.

Taking decision too quickly based solely on accusations amplified by a group of professional (veteran) trolls is probably the last thing any business should do.

I would like to add that I am not a "professional troll" or whatever you want to label me as, I am a professional computer science student who cares too much. I take offence to being labelled a troll when I have done nothing to warrant it, thank you very much.

[Gerken]

I've talked to Bruce and watched his show several times, and he is a really nice guy.... From my personal experience, it seems unlikely that he is the conman everyone is claiming him to be. He has a very open and honest character... Not at all 'shady' IMO.

Are you serious?  You can't think of any reason why a con man(who makes a living on getting people to trust him with their money and well-being) seems like a really nice guy?  A con man who seems shady isn't a very good one.  And he was a good one, no idea how much he got but he was ordered to pay back over 350k so it was a lot. 

[Raoul Duke]

I would like to add that I am not a "professional troll"

Yes you are:

Code:

Name: 	Stalin-chan
Posts: 	49 (24.500 per day)
Respect: 	0
Position: 	Jr. Member
Date Registered: 	August 30, 2011, 05:01:22 am

And people just need to look at your post history to see where you made all those posts and what did you troll about...

For example this one here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40524.msg495962#msg495962

It exposes you as a SA troll. You are a TROLL, and a bad one lol

[Stalin-chan]

I would like to add that I am not a "professional troll"

Yes you are:

Code:

Name: 	Stalin-chan
Posts: 	49 (24.500 per day)
Respect: 	0
Position: 	Jr. Member
Date Registered: 	August 30, 2011, 05:01:22 am

And people just need to look at your post history to see where you made all those posts and what did you troll about...

For example this one here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40524.msg495962#msg495962

It exposes you as a SA troll. You are a TROLL, and a bad one lol

Yeah i'm a troll because I don't think Bruce is trustworthy, and I don't think anyone in the Bitcoin community should associate with him.  
Also yeah, I know a little javascript. Throw me in the brig!

Is knowledge illegal now? Should I not have learned how to use a computer??