Misrepresentation on UK Channel 4 news

[RandyFolds]

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

Clearly you didn't follow the link I posted above, and I quote
"In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, retailers DO NOT need a licence to sell tobacco"
From the UK tobacco retailers alliance.

As long as UK Duty is paid on the cigarettes (which it is before I buy them) and I declare my income as a sole trader I'm totally legal.

Can I get that 5BTC now?  

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

[Vladimir]

Considering now much excise taxes they take on those fags (meaning cigarettes) I am not surprised that they allow everyone and their mother to sell it.

[Anonymailer]

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

Scotland - currently it's still legal, but from October 1st you'd need to 'register' to sell tobacco from there - I'm not sure that's quite the same as a license though

Ireland I'm not sure, they have their own set of laws there!

I'm not sure what a license would help enforce? As Vladimir said tax on tobacco here is really high - higher than anywhere else in Europe - and shops would still be prosecuted if it was found they were selling cheap 'duty-free' cigarettes or doing anything else they shouldn't be.

[RandyFolds]

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

Scotland - currently it's still legal, but from October 1st you'd need to 'register' to sell tobacco from there - I'm not sure that's quite the same as a license though

Ireland I'm not sure, they have their own set of laws there!

I'm not sure what a license would help enforce? As Vladimir said tax on tobacco here is really high - higher than anywhere else in Europe - and shops would still be prosecuted if it was found they were selling cheap 'duty-free' cigarettes or doing anything else they shouldn't be.

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

[onesalt]

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

[RandyFolds]

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.

[Anonymailer]

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

[Anonymailer]

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.

Yeah, they have the same problem with cards - you have to have the warning that you're not allowed to buy it underage but other than that there's not a lot you can do.

[geek-trader]

Back to the OP:

Any press is good press.  I first became aware of Bitcoin because of the Silk Road article on Gizmodo.

[onesalt]

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.

Yeah, they have the same problem with cards - you have to have the warning that you're not allowed to buy it underage but other than that there's not a lot you can do.

Well no it's more of an issue since Banks will keep details on you such as your age and suchlike, and to get a credit or debit card most banks have a minimum age which in a lot of cases is 18.

On the other hand, any 12 year old could pick up a bitcoin client if he wanted to.

[RandyFolds]

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

You should have a shiny new 2.5btc. I am not fooling around...when I call people out on bets, I am serious about it.

[Yuusha]

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.

You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC)

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.

Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.

Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.

Why do you doubt that? Tobacco sales are unregulated here in Sweden too. The very idea that it would be regulated baffles me, I've never heard of such a thing.

[RandyFolds]

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.

You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC)

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.

Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.

Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.

Why do you doubt that? Tobacco sales are unregulated here in Sweden too. The very idea that it would be regulated baffles me, I've never heard of such a thing.

Because if there are laws regarding the sale, distribution, and taxation of a product, there is normally an infrastructure to enforce it.

[RandyFolds]

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

http://blockexplorer.com/address/15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

[julz]

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

You should have a shiny new 2.5btc. I am not fooling around...when I call people out on bets, I am serious about it.

Well.. half serious... which is better than mybitcoin's 49%. 
Given that this bet was pretty informal and it wasn't immediately obvious when both parties accepted the bet.. I guess we can forgive you that.

That observers like me can verify this little wager exchange so easily via the blockchain is a really nice aspect of bitcoin. Thanks for the demo you two