Can someone convince me why the Scrypt "ASICs" would make much difference?

[BitTrade]

From the specs I can see, it will cost $2223 for AT's "Viper", which produces 5mhs.  The value to the buyer is 2.25 khs per dollar

Right now, if you shop smart, you can buy 4 5870's, Motherboard, PSU, CPU, ram, a few risers and other components for under $700 and produce 1.6mhs.  The value is 2.28 khs per dollar.

There definitely are many factors which add value to the ASICs, including power savings, lower barrier to entry, and the fact that they may depreciate in price more so than the GPU's (adding to their value per khs).  I guess even a small advantage is still an advantage, but I'm failing to see how these ASICs greatly effect the viability of GPU scrypt mining, or would even be significantly preferable (if at all) to traditional GPU mining.

[anderl]

It will be marginal.  ASICs for scrypt coins will not have the same impact that they did for sha256 coins.  Preliminary calculations for existing FPGA solutions being migrated to ASIC fabrication so a very small gain.  Taking into account the cost of starting an ASIC fabrication means that there is little to no profit in it.  At the rate that difficulty is increasing the Alpha Technologies ASICs will be less efficient than the next generation AMD GPUs that will come out the same time.

This s why I think that Alpha is a scam.  They cut their refunds for preorders the closer they get to delivery.  When people realize that the ASICs will be no better than the GPUs available at that time they will already be locked into the prices with a large loss in resale value.

The largest impact they will have is that they will allow affordable mining operations in locations that have high electricity costs.  To any miners operating in in regions where the elec cost is .10/kW or lower it has little effect.

[sharted]

From the specs I can see, it will cost $2223 for AT's "Viper", which produces 5mhs.  The value to the buyer is 2.25 khs per dollar

Right now, if you shop smart, you can buy 4 5870's, Motherboard, PSU, CPU, ram, a few risers and other components for under $700 and produce 1.6mhs.  The value is 2.28 khs per dollar.

There definitely are many factors which add value to the ASICs, including power savings, lower barrier to entry, and the fact that they may depreciate in price more so than the GPU's (adding to their value per khs).  I guess even a small advantage is still an advantage, but I'm failing to see how these ASICs greatly effect the viability of GPU scrypt mining, or would even be significantly preferable (if at all) to traditional GPU mining.

I would avoid/ignore everything to do with scrypt "ASICS" because a lot of them are scams and have yet to provide any proof of their existence. Fact of the matter is this: scrypt needs lots of fast RAM and fast RAM is expensive, so even if they could make ASICS, it's unlikely they could offer more than a Radeon card. Think about it logically, Radeon are experts in the field and know how to make fast RAM for the lowest amount of money, it's their business so they need to know. Anyone who does make an ASIC won't be able to make one notably better than a 7990, and even if it is slightly better, it can only be used for mining and nothing else, unlike a graphics card.

[Panteraswift]

I hope you are right. Still,  there is a user at middlecoin mining at around 700 MH/s that is supposedly doing with ASICs. Makes me wonder about its profitability potential.

[mikeybit]

I hope you are right. Still,  there is a user at middlecoin mining at around 700 MH/s that is supposedly doing with ASICs. Makes me wonder about its profitability potential.

It's amazing how quickly rumors spread.  He stated he has a mining farm in China.

[atp1916]

I hope you are right. Still,  there is a user at middlecoin mining at around 700 MH/s that is supposedly doing with ASICs. Makes me wonder about its profitability potential.

No.  He is a 2ghs GPU farm in China and that is only part of his hash. 

[Panteraswift]

It's amazing how quickly rumors spread.  He stated he has a mining farm in China.

So, to end this topic (for a while, at least) in your knowledge, there is no currently active comercial application of Scrypt ASICs?
Should the answer be NO, it will make a lot of GPU miners (such as myself) breath with relief.

[crazyates]

Right now, if you shop smart, you can buy 4 5870's, Motherboard, PSU, CPU, ram, a few risers and other components for under $700 and produce 1.6mhs.  The value is 2.28 khs per dollar.

You're really recommending people buy GPUs that were release three and a half years ago? Talk about EOL. How lond do you think they'll last?

Not to mention that they can only get what, a little over 400Kh/s? Even a used 7870 or 270x can get that, and use way less power doing so. Less power = less costs, but also means you can get away with a smaller PSU.

Basically I think you're numbers need adjusting. You honestly thing you could set up a GPU rig for almost 2.3Khs/USD?

[mikeybit]

It's amazing how quickly rumors spread.  He stated he has a mining farm in China.

So, to end this topic (for a while, at least) in your knowledge, there is no currently active comercial application of Scrypt ASICs?
Should the answer be NO, it will make a lot of GPU miners (such as myself) breath with relief.

There is no proof of commercial activity of scrypt ASIC's.  The gridseed chips he posted about are proofs of concept for now.  With a peak performance of 70kh/s at a price of either $65 or $85 per chip.  That kind of $/hash ratio is not economically viable. 

[Panteraswift]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

[mudshark79]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

ROI with Scrypt/GPU is hard to achieve if not impossible, there were some good times about 2 months ago when Litecoin went up but since then it's decreasing and only a unpredictable rise of crypto in general can make your ROI reality. Simply adding more GPUs now is surely not the way to go: while you can get MORE Scrypt-Based-Coin whatsoever for the same amount of fiat at the given moment to make a speculation on future prices.... just my two cents (also learned it the "hard way" but it was fun and so i won't complain)..... in less than 3 months i guess it's : HD7950s anyone?  

[Panteraswift]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

ROI with Scrypt/GPU is hard to achieve if not impossible, there were some good times about 2 months ago when Litecoin went up but since then it's decreasing and only a unpredictable rise of crypto in general can make your ROI reality. Simply adding more GPUs now is surely not the way to go: while you can get MORE Scrypt-Based-Coin whatsoever for the same amount of fiat at the given moment to make a speculation on future prices.... just my two cents (also learned it the "hard way" but it was fun and so i won't complain)..... in less than 3 months i guess it's : HD7950s anyone?  

I have been mining for roughly one month, and most of my revenue is from the post DOGE-craze era. I´m 40% to my ROI point, and while slow, it has been steady. I believe that the point at which scrypt/gpu will no longer be profitable will be 3 to 6 months after the first commercial application of scrypt ASICs go mainstream; a bit longer than that (3 to 6 months more) if power costs are not a factor, which is my case.
Lets just hope profitability bounces back up.

[mudshark79]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

ROI with Scrypt/GPU is hard to achieve if not impossible, there were some good times about 2 months ago when Litecoin went up but since then it's decreasing and only a unpredictable rise of crypto in general can make your ROI reality. Simply adding more GPUs now is surely not the way to go: while you can get MORE Scrypt-Based-Coin whatsoever for the same amount of fiat at the given moment to make a speculation on future prices.... just my two cents (also learned it the "hard way" but it was fun and so i won't complain)..... in less than 3 months i guess it's : HD7950s anyone?  

I have been mining for roughly one month, and most of my revenue is from the post DOGE-craze era. I´m 40% to my ROI point, and while slow, it has been steady. I believe that the point at which scrypt/gpu will no longer be profitable will be 3 to 6 months after the first commercial application of scrypt ASICs go mainstream; a bit longer tan that (3 to 6 months more) if power costs are not a factor, which is my case.
Lets just hope profitability bounces back up.

Power Costs no Factor? Lucky you... my ROI is somewhere in a few months or so (didn't do the math lately again to avoid questioning my daily efforts too much  ) .... fingers crossed those GPUs don't "burn" before time 

[Panteraswift]

Power Costs no Factor? Lucky you... my ROI is somewhere in a few months or so (didn't do the math lately again to avoid questioning my daily efforts too much  ) .... fingers crossed those GPUs don't "burn" before time 

How deep in are you? I´ve invested around 5,000 so far, not counting one R9 290 and a 850w PS I should receive tomorrow.

[mudshark79]

Power Costs no Factor? Lucky you... my ROI is somewhere in a few months or so (didn't do the math lately again to avoid questioning my daily efforts too much  ) .... fingers crossed those GPUs don't "burn" before time 

How deep in are you? I´ve invested around 5,000 so far, not counting one R9 290 and a 850w PS I should receive tomorrow.

5000 what  , i hope we are not talking BTC

I got myself a decent rig with 4 GPUs, board, CPU, 1200W Seasonic (hell of a PSU), will keep board and PSU for sure, one GPU also for gaming once a year so not even close to 2k, where i live one is supposed to pay with Euro 

[sharted]

Who cares about profitability with scrypt mining. The alternative of mining bitcoins will NEVER give you a ROI but at least scrypt will, even if it takes 6 months it's still a worthier endeavor then any sha256 mining. For me to get 0.01 bitcoin a day with sha256 mining I would need about 100 gh/s or something retarded, however, I get that with a 7850 and 7950 GPU, both running on a corsair 500 watt psu so the power consumption isn't much. Even if an ASIC was built, highly unlikely it will be anytime soon, it won't be much better than high-end Radeon card for reasons I explained earlier in this thread. Also, the resell value of any high-end graphics card is huge, sometimes even more than the original cost when demand is high enough. Worst case scenario is that after 6 months you only make a small profit but you have also avoided giving your identity documents to Russian websites and acquired bitcoin in the safest way possible. I don't give two shits about ROI as I do about mining bitcoins and helping the revolution.

[tampania]

Would we even really KNOW if someone were close to releasing an ASIC scrypt miner? Couldn't they just be working on it under the radar and then drop it on the market? Isn't it possible a company would learn the BFL lesson and rather than overstate and overpromise, do the exact opposite - perfect their product, and then drop it on the market..? That would also ensure they beat any would-be competitors to be first out.

Anyone see any problems with this argument?

[anderl]

Who cares about profitability with scrypt mining. ... I don't give two shits about ROI as I do about mining bitcoins and helping the revolution.

Nice.  You will make a great manager, director, VP.... lol.

[atp1916]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

ROI with Scrypt/GPU is hard to achieve if not impossible, there were some good times about 2 months ago when Litecoin went up but since then it's decreasing and only a unpredictable rise of crypto in general can make your ROI reality. Simply adding more GPUs now is surely not the way to go: while you can get MORE Scrypt-Based-Coin whatsoever for the same amount of fiat at the given moment to make a speculation on future prices.... just my two cents (also learned it the "hard way" but it was fun and so i won't complain)..... in less than 3 months i guess it's : HD7950s anyone?  

   

Heaviest FUD i've read all month long.  I have no issues calling you out on this one, mudshark79.

ROI is outstanding right now.  It was horrible months ago with btc price in the crapper and ltc the same.   That is the truth.

I am ROIing GPUs at the rate of just about 1 a week currently.

I have completely paid off 7k of hardware, most of that in the last month alone.

[mudshark79]

Thank you. I feel relieved, since I am a fairly recent miner myself, have not reached my ROI point yet, and I intend to keep adding GPUs for a while.

ROI with Scrypt/GPU is hard to achieve if not impossible, there were some good times about 2 months ago when Litecoin went up but since then it's decreasing and only a unpredictable rise of crypto in general can make your ROI reality. Simply adding more GPUs now is surely not the way to go: while you can get MORE Scrypt-Based-Coin whatsoever for the same amount of fiat at the given moment to make a speculation on future prices.... just my two cents (also learned it the "hard way" but it was fun and so i won't complain)..... in less than 3 months i guess it's : HD7950s anyone?  

   

Heaviest FUD i've read all month long.  I have no issues calling you out on this one, mudshark79.

ROI is outstanding right now.  It was horrible months ago with btc price in the crapper and ltc the same.   That is the truth.

I am ROIing GPUs at the rate of just about 1 a week currently.

I have completely paid off 7k of hardware, most of that in the last month alone.

But then also only with no powercosts at all and spending half of your time reconfiguring your miners to some new whatsoever Altcoin-Just-Released and spending the other half on selling them to BTC or whatever... no option if you have other things to do. With the typical LTC or WTC rates at the moment and leaving your hashpower pointed at one of these Coins for example , i'm pretty sure you don't get 40% of ROI in one month, maybe 20% at best.

If you have a not so time consuming strategy let us know, please  .

There were some very good times during November, when LTC was even higher then today and difficulty and hashpower still lower when in general still a good deal , of course ROI was harder to achieve when prices were like they have been half a year ago or even earlier.

I began early December and my ROI-Calc just had to be stretched some time in the future with the numbers given at the moment, that's all. I'm not FUDing anyone (Who is listening top me on this one anyhow ? :-) ), just telling my experience and come back to me on this one anytime you want.