Router with many devices

[crypto_curious]

Hi guys,

Currently I am expanding operations and I reached limit at which router I have (stock British Telecom router) is crashing frequently. I have about 45 Ethernet devices and 20-30 WiFi devices. I relocated all WiFi to another router, which is connected with single LAN cable to BT router, but it's crashing anyway.

Question:

Anyone of you can recommend router which can handle 24/7:

• ADSL line Internet (telephone line)
• Ability to support 100+ Ethernet devices
• 50+ WiFi devices (optional)

Thanks!

[fanatic26]

You sure are asking alot of an ADSL connection.

I didnt even think they existed anymore.

In my experience ADSL doesnt have enough upload to support that many devices, not even close.

[crypto_curious]

You sure are asking alot of an ADSL connection.

I didnt even think they existed anymore.

In my experience ADSL doesnt have enough upload to support that many devices, not even close.

I got 21Mbps download and 1.5 Mbps upload. on telephone line.

I can support easily 100 miners on it. Not PC or laptops but miners with Linux - yes.

[fanatic26]

I assumed when you mentioned all those wireless devices that you had standard users too, since mining on wifi is usually doesnt work out so well

[Biffa]

Its probably more to do with the dhcp server than the router itself.

Perhaps if you draw/describe your existing network layout in more detail it would help.

[2112]

In the past I've used TP-Link TD-W8970 in similar situation (not miners, but a farm of computers for tests). The manufacturer has marked it end-of-life, I had hard time even finding the information. Other people used ASUS xDSL gateways, e.g. ASUS DSL-AC68U, but I don't know what was changed in the recent firmware.

Your best bet is probably:

1) convert your B.T. device to bridge mode and use a regular PC or Mac to share your connection.

2) buy an end-of-life Cisco IOS router (e.g. Cisco 1801 (ADSL over POTS), Cisco 1802 (ADSL over ISDN), Cisco 1841 + HWIC-1ADSL + HWIC-AP WLAN). They are now super cheap, but they aren't easy to set up, because they use Cisco's crown jewel IOS (Internetworking Operating System). On the flip side, there are plenty of sources to learn and get help. This is rock-solid industrial-grade solution for businesses and it was quite popular before VDSL or optical fiber pushed it out of the market.

Does B.T. charge you rental for your gateway or do you own it outright?

Also, are you sure that it is your router crashing&rebooting and not some line problems (real or artificially created). Where I used to live ISPs would remotely force customer's devices to reboot frequently to force them to upgrade to VDSL or fiber-optics. Do you know the noise margins and bit error rates on your line? I don't know the situation in the UK, but in many other countries ADSL was somewhat mired in political/financial problems on the provider side that made it hard to support for them.

Edit: Also, tell us how BT provides you with an IP address, is it via PPPoE, PPPoA, DHCP, L2TP, MER or something proprietary? This is very important!

Edit2: It was TD-W8970 or TD-W8980, just from the look of it. I recall returning TD-W8968 as it wasn't crashing, but it was just slow under load. Or it was TD-8961ND that I returned, again just from the look of it.

Edit3: I'll just cut&paste this from my gateway for my own reference, although we no longer have any xDSL where I live:
DSL line status
2.1 DSL link status
2.2 DSL synchronization mode
2.3 DSL last synchronization
2.4 DSL synchronization uptime 00 d 00 h 00 m 00 s
Rate and noise margin
2.5 DSL synchronization up Kb/s
2.6 DSL synchronization down Kb/s
2.7 noise margin down dB
Line quality (errors)
2.8 Errored seconds (ES) of downstream (since last synchronisation)
2.9 Severely errored seconds (SES) of downstream (since last synchronisation)

[crypto_curious]

Thanks for all your replies guys!

Here is some details about my current device:

Code:

Product name: Business Smart Hub
Firmware version: SG4B1B008146
Firmware updated: 28-Apr-2018
Board version: 1.0
Gui version: 1.91.5
DSL uptime: 0 Days, 8 Hours 9 Minutes 16 Seconds
Data rate: 1.26 Mbps / 21.32 Mbps
Maximum data rate: 1264 / 21384
Noise margin: 6.2 dB / 6 dB
Line attenuation: 6.6 dB / 13.5 dB
Signal attenuation: 6.6 dB / 13.5 dB
VPI / VCI: 0/38 - 0/35
Modulation: G_992_5_ANNEX_A
Latency type: Fast Path
Data sent / received: 229 MB Uploaded / 241 MB Downloaded

Do noise numbers looks good?

Connection information:

Code:

Connection time: 0 Days, 8 Hours 13 Mins 48 Secs
Data usage: 239 MB Uploaded / 246 MB Downloaded

It's really not heavy.

To reassure some of you, all WiFi devices are smart sockets with WiFi functionality, which enable me to watch power usage, switch on and off sockets remotely from my phone. All remaining Ethernet devices are miners.

There is one Linux server there, so I could try to make a bridge. This is very interesting and promising idea! I am just hoping I will be able to do that on Linux!

[2112]

Do noise numbers looks good?

They look fine for the moment. You'll need to write a script to scrape those numbers every hour and see if they are stable. If they are stable you shouldn't have problem staying continuously online for months at a time or even years.

It's really not heavy.

True, it isn't.

I'm guessing you have this: https://business.bt.com/smart-hub/ . If I'm not mistaken this is a French SagemCom re-branded for British Telecom with absolute minimum of internal memory. They are generally of shitty quality and with lots of functionality intentionally disabled. Instead you get pretty graphics and pointless animations.

Why BT Smart Scan is useful? The BT Smart Hub is so smart that it improves how it works by itself. By using BT Smart Scan, if it finds a way to work better, it waits for a quiet moment and then reboots itself. Giving you advanced reliability automatically.

See if you can disable that "Smart" shit or just reconfigure it so it never finds "a quiet moment". To me it looks like some sort of temporary workaround for the problem on the provider's side. Other ADSL modems are capable of retraining to the line quality without rebooting, it is observable as just a short hiccup in the flow of the traffic.

The hub supports static IP for web hosting and remote access too. And with the latest IPv6 addresses provided as standard, the BT Business Smart Hub saves your business time and money.

You really need to learn how they provision your IP addresses, both IPv4 and IPv6. There are just to many variants of dual-stack provisioning to give you a reliable advice. Linux on a regular PC is certainly much better router than whatever is inside that box. But you may need to invest in a wireless network card or separate wireless access point (without router) to replace the WiFi functionality of your BT box.

Just don't make a mistake of trying to configure Linux to bridge. It is doable, but it wont help you. Linux on the PC has to be a router and a NAT box (sometimes called masquerading,) the BT box needs to be reconfigured for bridging.

Edit: At least it looks like they didn't disable bridging:
https://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/35226/~/how-do-i-enable-bridge-mode-on-my-bt-business-hub%3F/c/5098/

Edit2: For my own reference I've found the closest SagemCom model: F@St 5360
http://www.sagemcom.com/broadband/gateways/dsl-gateways/fst-5360/
Those things are known to hold the xDSL sessions really well, half-a-year at a time, but are rather weak NAT boxes. WiFi is fast, but low range.

[crypto_curious]

Thanks for your reply.

Cheapest and most reliable option would be to transform Linux server to router. I have Linux Mint installed there, and so far I am not sure how to tackle this problem. It have 2 or 4 ethernet ports as well.
Option 2 would be to transform that Linux server to WiFi Access Point, I just need to buy USB WiFi dongle, and Linux server would give them IPs through DHCP and Internet.

Can you assist me with option 2, what should I do in order to achieve it, is there any reliable tutorial how to make Linux to work as WiFi Access Point, which gives devices internet and IP numbers?
That way, all WiFi load would be taken off from router no 2 (which does WiFi, but doesn't do DHCP, it relays everything to BT modem/router box), and from router no 1 (BT) which does all DHCP and it's on the edge, really struggling with the number of devices.

[2112]

Sorry, I don't know off-hand how to do that using modern hardware and software. I've done it in the past on the hardware from 2003/2004.

You should seriously consider just buying a better gateway. Either buy Asus DSL-AC68U to replace your BT jobbie, or:

3) reconfigure your BT jobbie to a bridge and and a plain Ethernet gateway like Asus RT-AC68U.

4) hire somebody locally to consult you.

[crypto_curious]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I am inclined to just purchase different device, but I don't know which one.

Why you are recommending Asus DSL-AC68U? Will it handle 100 devices via DHCP?

Sorry, I don't know off-hand how to do that using modern hardware and software. I've done it in the past on the hardware from 2003/2004.

You should seriously consider just buying a better gateway. Either buy Asus DSL-AC68U to replace your BT jobbie, or:

3) reconfigure your BT jobbie to a bridge and and a plain Ethernet gateway like Asus RT-AC68U.

4) hire somebody locally to consult you.

[crypto_curious]

2) buy an end-of-life Cisco IOS router (e.g. Cisco 1801 (ADSL over POTS), Cisco 1802 (ADSL over ISDN), Cisco 1841 + HWIC-1ADSL + HWIC-AP WLAN). They are now super cheap, but they aren't easy to set up, because they use Cisco's crown jewel IOS (Internetworking Operating System). On the flip side, there are plenty of sources to learn and get help. This is rock-solid industrial-grade solution for businesses and it was quite popular before VDSL or optical fiber pushed it out of the market.

How do I choose, which Cisco will work with my ADSL line?
POTS, ISDN, or Cisco 1841? I have standard UK telephone line, 21Mbps down 1+ Mbps up, all routers with R12 (that's how it's called, right?) socket are physically compatible, but I don't know which router to choose.