Why premine is still widely accepted?

[dimitriyremerov]

For all new coins I would say:

Do not premine at all. Never. Never ever. Not even 0.1%, because it's a lot. Why advertisement suddenly became FREE? Becase that's what you creators of coins do: you write that it's essential for coin advertisement, bounties, etc. So you get all of this for free by premining.

Here's an idea: why not pay money for this as the rest of the world does? If you are so confident in your coin, your innovation, your marketing skills, you MUST invest something in advertisement.

How about you buy a lot of coins from early miners for a low price. Doge was at 0.05 BTC per million when it just started and didn't reach any exchange yet. So if you need these 20mil DOGE for bounties, you should buy it for your own 1 BTC from early miners.

That not only removes unfair advantage to dev, but also shows his confidence and gives the coin the extra value. If you premine, we already know that you took the easy way and do not want this coin to succeed. You just want to pump and dump.

DOGE was 0% premine and it was the most successful newborn altcoin so far. Think about it.

[Last1212]

I don'y understand why most people hates premine. Premine is good for coin, it helps coin to be afloat on hardtimes.
You don't understand one great thing - premine motivates devs to promote/modify their project. Why should Dev do that for free?
YOu will say that a lot of people will donate, but that is false. Most of people are greedy and impudent. There is only one thing that they want - PROFIT! Most of miners don't interested in long run coins, they want profit ASAP.
Curious that premine haters never donate anything to devs

[kalus]

premine is still widely accepted because the majority of us don't have a problem with it.  

if i don't like how the coin is setup, then i can wait patiently for the next pre-mined pump-and-dump to come along.  usually i only have to wait 5 minutes or so.  

[michaelsss]

if  premine coin, i always pass directly, i do not want to waste time on the shit coin.

[CoinMakr]

There is no problem with a pre-mine, as long as the address is transparent and the bounties are rewarded to encourage growth. Because of the way most alt-coins explain their pre-mines, people just assume they are kept by the devs ready for a dump when it hits an exchange. This can be true, but if the pre-mine is transparent and all of the paid bounties can be seen, then the infrastructure of the coin is developed by the community thus increasing the coins value. Its a win-win situation.

One coin that has adopted this method and impressed me with their transparency is DigiByte - http://digibyte.co/pre-mine-accounts

[dimitriyremerov]

Premine is good for coin, it helps coin to be afloat on hardtimes.
You don't understand one great thing - premine motivates devs to promote/modify their project. Why should Dev do that for free?

Premine motivates devs to pump and dump, not promote their project. If they created a shitcoin on a generator website, premined it and it failed, well they don't have anything to lose. If it succeeded after one faucet and one giveaway he will be happy to dump all his coins and move to a villa on a seashore.

Investment motivates devs to promote/modify their project. If they bought coins from early miners for giveaways, bounties and etc., only then they are motivated to promote their project. Much more effective motivation.

There is no problem with a pre-mine, as long as the address is transparent and the bounties are rewarded to encourage growth. Because of the way most alt-coins explain their pre-mines, people just assume they are kept by the devs ready for a dump when it hits an exchange. This can be true, but if the pre-mine is transparent and all of the paid bounties can be seen, then the infrastructure of the coin is developed by the community thus increasing the coins value. Its a win-win situation.

One coin that has adopted this method and impressed me with their transparency is DigiByte - http://digibyte.co/pre-mine-accounts

Transparency doesn't help. They still own the keys for pre-mined accounts. Nobody can stop them from legitimately and transparently spending part of pre-mine on giveaways, bounties and then dump everything else once the price is good enough.

Bottom line: premined coins are sneaky way to make devs rich, and it can't be considered good for coin. And I will repeat: giveaways, faucets and bounties can be organized by investment of the developer. They should buy their marketing. There is no other field in human relations where the advertisement is free. Neither should it be here. People open their websites, they have to spend their $$ for getting people to know their business.

[tokyoghetto]

I don'y understand why most people hates premine. Premine is good for coin, it helps coin to be afloat on hardtimes.
You don't understand one great thing - premine motivates devs to promote/modify their project. Why should Dev do that for free?
YOu will say that a lot of people will donate, but that is false. Most of people are greedy and impudent. There is only one thing that they want - PROFIT! Most of miners don't interested in long run coins, they want profit ASAP.
Curious that premine haters never donate anything to devs

premine isn't good. Coinye devs dumped the premine and abandoned the coin. Premining is a get rich quick scam.

[motatoys]

so many cry babies in here

[tokyoghetto]

so many cry babies in here

Name:    motatoys
Posts:    19
Activity:    14
Position:    Jr. Member
Date Registered:    January 11, 2014, 07:37:36 PM

you must be new here.

[nosf009]

Simply put - 95% of these coin adopters are dumb users who think DEV should work for them with no compensation.
I read about those cryings for a while now and am getting rather annoyed with it.

For some coins - pre-mine is obvious (recently: check coinye), and things can go bad.
For others - it merely supports development and promotion. Plus, wouldn't you say - if for example, coin gets 1M cap and dev gets some $$ from that is somehow wrong?

So, logic is - DEV (the alpha of the coin) gets ZERO, and mega miners get MILLIONS? Right. And miners don't dump??? LOL. That's just stupid.
OF COURSE - it's up to those 95% dumb users to decide on themselves what to do, which coin to mine, support and such.

It's fairly easy.
And those things you list as arguments and things to think about - makes no sense.
I dig it - most of the people here have ZERO understanding what a development process is, so sure - why not call it something not worthy, and reward it with 0.
WAIT - NOT only 0, but let's also take 1,2,5,X BTC from DEV since he should be "paying" for the promotions and such.
Hell, then the miners can just dip in fine profits doing nothing. Like it's already hard to keep a rig somewhere and monitor it for 15 min a day. For thousands of dollars. Cool.

Anyway, maybe you don't see it, and I get it - but if the story around individual coin is right, pre-mine up to 5% serves good to it's purpose.
If a miner/adopter makes bad decision and chooses 1, and even 5 consequential coins who's DEV was a person to do pump/dump, how again is that anybody's problem other than miner's?
One should avoid coins that seem simple c/p, have no agenda and are not unique in any way.

Also, there's like pacifist solution - whoever has so much issues with pre-mine, just skip that coin. Very very simple.

[motatoys]

so many cry babies in here

Name:    motatoys
Posts:    19
Activity:    14
Position:    Jr. Member
Date Registered:    January 11, 2014, 07:37:36 PM

you must be new here.

good boy noticing.. you have very good reading skills, A+ for you

[holzer]

I pretty much agree with everything nosf009 said except the up to 5% premine which I think is still too much. It really depends on the devs. If they have a team doing a ton of work (creating the coin, supporting it, marketing, giveaways, bounties etc) they need a premine to cover their costs and time. I also think they should be rewarded for for their work since they are the ones that created it. Now sometimes you get devs that just spit out a coin and do\ jack shit. In that instance, yes a premine is bad, and they ruin it for the good ones.

[xibeijan]

I think a premining is completely acceptable (and actually quite important) for an innovative coin.

Why?

Because coins that actually matter, i.e., coins that do something new, incur significant costs in terms of time and money for development. It is important that those (hard working) developers are rewarded for all their effort.

Why?

So they will support their coin over the long-term.

So the developer should have a significant stake.  The stake should certainly not all go to miners, who only care about profit, but also to the dev who has put blood and sweat into the project and who is the only person who can support the project over the long-term.

On the other hand, it's it just a copy and paste coin, then there should be no premine because there really is no dev.  I think this is the part people get confused about.

[Nullu]

A premine is not so much an issue with the coin, but an issue of trust with the developer. If everyone thinks the developer will use them to promote the coin, then it's good thing, if not, it's a bad thing. Whether the devs do or not is a different thing entirely. But it's mainly about trust.

The level of premine people are willing to accept now certainly has gone done. Anything over a few percent is really met with scorn now. I guess it's because of coins like Dimecoin.

[FreePls]

just look at metiscoin, the value could be fucking huge, but since no premine the dev isn't able to do anything now..

[Nullu]

just look at metiscoin, the value could be fucking huge, but since no premine the dev isn't able to do anything now..

I've seen donations work as a good distribution model to give the dev coins for bounties/etc. I also don't get why some devs don't just mine their own coins. For a fraction of a BTC they could just lease a rig..

[Symbiont]

just look at metiscoin, the value could be fucking huge, but since no premine the dev isn't able to do anything now..

I´m fine with permine. It isn´t as easy as most of you are thinking it is to create a coin and promote it in long term. To be a part of the def doesn´t mean, that they have big mining rigs. Why shouldn´t the devs get some coins for their work. Even if they don´t invest more BTC, their investment is the time they need for the coin, they could although spend their time at a payed job.

I´m mining LeproCoin (LPC) and the dev hasn´t much coins left, because there wasn´t a premine. Most of their coins, they´ve shared with the community and now the community(!!!) is spending coins for goals and giveaways.

Just take a look: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400393.400 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430799.msg4716249#msg4716249 (this one is closed because of the new rules, but a lot of people have given coins for this promotion).