2 problems with Bitcoin

[guybrushthreepwood]

you guys hate the idea of intrinstic value because btc has none and its a requirement of real money.

you guys have created your own fiat, way to go, we already had fiat.

What intrinsic value does paper money have? It's a bit of paper.

[cryptomining]

Since I already answered your questions and you didn't reply you either didn't understand my post or chose not to respond. I'll simply ask a series of questions...

1. With the exception of your body and mind; what do you believe has actual intrinsic value?

2. Do you believe the current fiat is perfect?

3. Do you align more with the political beliefs of capitalism or communism? Which has more benefits in your opinion?

1. not btc
2.  current fiat, no. but why replace it with yours. how about real money, 1792 coinage act.
3.  free markets, adam smith ,consitution, yadda yadda

[cryptomining]

you guys hate the idea of intrinstic value because btc has none and its a requirement of real money.

you guys have created your own fiat, way to go, we already had fiat.

What intrinsic value does paper money have? It's a bit of paper.

i agree, why i started this topic, finally someone gets it.

[mgio]

you guys hate the idea of intrinstic value because btc has none and its a requirement of real money.

you guys have created your own fiat, way to go, we already had fiat.

What intrinsic value does paper money have? It's a bit of paper.

i agree, why i started this topic, finally someone gets it.

What intrinsic value does gold have?

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

[cryptomining]

you guys hate the idea of intrinstic value because btc has none and its a requirement of real money.

you guys have created your own fiat, way to go, we already had fiat.

What intrinsic value does paper money have? It's a bit of paper.

i agree, why i started this topic, finally someone gets it.

What intrinsic value does gold have?

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

never had any gold obviously.

[prezbo]

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

Or diamonds. They are even incredibly cheap to make in a lab. It has value because someone somewhere a long time ago decided that a clear stone is "beautiful"?

[cryptomining]

so if a carrington event happens bitcoin = 0

people wake up to the tulip mania and realize bitcoin has no intrinstic value = 0

Why are you here then?

i enjoy mining, building computers, and such.

[guybrushthreepwood]

you guys hate the idea of intrinstic value because btc has none and its a requirement of real money.

you guys have created your own fiat, way to go, we already had fiat.

What intrinsic value does paper money have? It's a bit of paper.

i agree, why i started this topic, finally someone gets it.

What intrinsic value does gold have?

Gold has intrinsic value because it's a metal which can be used for other things.

[cryptomining]

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

Or diamonds. They are even incredibly cheap to make in a lab. It has value because someone somewhere a long time ago decided that a clear stone is "beautiful"?

they have intrinsic value, if you saw them on the ground you would pick them up and give them to your lady or probably trade them for peanut butter.

[pungopete468]

Since I already answered your questions and you didn't reply you either didn't understand my post or chose not to respond. I'll simply ask a series of questions...

1. With the exception of your body and mind; what do you believe has actual intrinsic value?

2. Do you believe the current fiat is perfect?

3. Do you align more with the political beliefs of capitalism or communism? Which has more benefits in your opinion?

1. not btc
2.  current fiat, no. but why replace it with yours. how about real money, 1792 coinage act.
3.  free markets, adam smith ,consitution, yadda yadda

Thank you for answering.

1. I've already expressed that intrinsic value by definition is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as guaranteed value with the exception of your body and mind and only because those are essential to your actual existence and so holds guaranteed personal value to you (Would you accept 1 trillion dollars or a mountain of gold in exchange for your life?). BTC is no exception as intrinsic value is non-existent. Gold has no intrinsic value; value by definition can never be intrinsic. No exceptions...

2. Agree, current fiat is not perfect. Bitcoin is innovation and change in the right direction. 1792 coinage act is not perfect either because of fractional reserve banking.

3. Bitcoin is 100% aligned with your ideological beliefs. Bitcoin is owned by the carrier and always executes a peer to peer transaction while government fiat can never be owned by the user Government fiat is a debt to repay while Bitcoin is an asset which gains equity over time.

[knarzo]

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

Or diamonds. They are even incredibly cheap to make in a lab. It has value because someone somewhere a long time ago decided that a clear stone is "beautiful"?

they have intrinsic value, if you saw them on the ground you would pick them up and give them to your lady or probably trade them for peanut butter.

Why don't you leave this forum and have a talk with some economists? They will give you standing ovations and throw greenbacks on you

[mgio]

It is over valued by several orders of magnitude if you just look at its usefulness as an industrial metal.

Or diamonds. They are even incredibly cheap to make in a lab. It has value because someone somewhere a long time ago decided that a clear stone is "beautiful"?

Not even that long ago. It was in the last 100 years that the DeBeers diamond cartel was formed and aggressively marketed the diamond as a precious stone.

When compared to other precious stones (eg rubies, emeralds, sapphires), diamonds are even that rare and should be classified as "semi-precious" (like topaz, etc). The only reason why they command a high price is because DeBeers artificially limits the diamond supply.

[yatsey87]

The "No intrinsic" value argument has been discussed to death.

I believe the "Carrington event" relates to a solar storm that would knock out most electronic means of communication. How is the current banking system protected from the same event? If anything Bitcoin is more resilient as the blockchain (public ledger) is replicated across 1000s of PCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Thinking about this...Maybe we should go back to using an abacus??

How often does this actually happen. 1859 was quite a while ago.

[Holliday]

I've though about the term "intrinsic value" for several years now. Anyone who is honest with themselves should realize (I hope it doesn't take several years, like it did for me) that "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Value requires a relationship. You need A to first observe B for value to even exist! B can never have value without something like A to actually assign it value.

Everyone using "intrinsic value" should consider using a more appropriate term, like industrial value, alternative value, multifaceted value, or perhaps onion value (layers).

When it comes to money, these other values are actually a hindrance because they can influence the object's value outside of it's use as money. These forms of money (commodity money) were useful at first, when trade was not global and technology didn't allow man to step outside the role of hunter/gatherer. In today's world, we humans specialize, and we need specialized tools to achieve our goals. Bitcoin was designed from the ground up to be pure money, and that is a feature, not a bug. Bitcoin is money specialized. Arguably, so is today's fiat (specialized money), but fiat has a massive drawback in the fact that it is controlled by a few, to the advantage of those few.

[cryptomining]

I've though about the term "intrinsic value" for several years now. Anyone who is honest with themselves should realize (I hope it doesn't take several years, like it did for me) that "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Value requires a relationship. You need A to first observe B for value to even exist! B can never have value without something like A to actually assign it value.

Everyone using "intrinsic value" should consider using a more appropriate term, like industrial value, alternative value, multifaceted value, or perhaps onion value (layers).

When it comes to money, these other values are actually a hindrance because they can influence the object's value outside of it's use as money. These forms of money (commodity money) were useful at first, when trade was not global and technology didn't allow man to step outside the role of hunter/gatherer. In today's world, we humans specialize, and we need specialized tools to achieve our goals. Bitcoin was designed from the ground up to be pure money, and that is a feature, not a bug. Bitcoin is money specialized. Arguably, so is today's fiat (specialized money), but fiat has a massive drawback in the fact that it is controlled by a few, to the advantage of those few.

it seems you dont like the idea of intrinsic value and do away with it because you know that bitcoin doesnt have it.

i would hoard gold, silver, diamonds, land, instictively even if society placed no value upon these things.  One only hoards bitcoins when society percieves value upon it.

its nature is fiat, and decidely unintrinsic, mho.

[Holliday]

I've though about the term "intrinsic value" for several years now. Anyone who is honest with themselves should realize (I hope it doesn't take several years, like it did for me) that "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Value requires a relationship. You need A to first observe B for value to even exist! B can never have value without something like A to actually assign it value.

Everyone using "intrinsic value" should consider using a more appropriate term, like industrial value, alternative value, multifaceted value, or perhaps onion value (layers).

When it comes to money, these other values are actually a hindrance because they can influence the object's value outside of it's use as money. These forms of money (commodity money) were useful at first, when trade was not global and technology didn't allow man to step outside the role of hunter/gatherer. In today's world, we humans specialize, and we need specialized tools to achieve our goals. Bitcoin was designed from the ground up to be pure money, and that is a feature, not a bug. Bitcoin is money specialized. Arguably, so is today's fiat (specialized money), but fiat has a massive drawback in the fact that it is controlled by a few, to the advantage of those few.

it seems you dont like the idea of intrinsic value and do away with it because you know that bitcoin doesnt have it.

If that is what you take from my post, I must have severe difficulties conveying meaning with the written word.

[SirBitsalot]

If you can only come up with 2 problems with Bitcoin, than that's saying something! I can think of LOTS of problems with every other type of currency.

[Cryptopher]

1. Carrington type event
2. no intrinsic value

comments?

Carrington type event hmm. It's like the possible acute effects on Bitcoin vs the very real chronic effects of the current financial system.

Plus such an event would likely cause a whole host of other issues unrelated to Bitcoin.

[cryptomining]

I've though about the term "intrinsic value" for several years now. Anyone who is honest with themselves should realize (I hope it doesn't take several years, like it did for me) that "intrinsic value" is bullshit.

Value requires a relationship. You need A to first observe B for value to even exist! B can never have value without something like A to actually assign it value.

Everyone using "intrinsic value" should consider using a more appropriate term, like industrial value, alternative value, multifaceted value, or perhaps onion value (layers).

When it comes to money, these other values are actually a hindrance because they can influence the object's value outside of it's use as money. These forms of money (commodity money) were useful at first, when trade was not global and technology didn't allow man to step outside the role of hunter/gatherer. In today's world, we humans specialize, and we need specialized tools to achieve our goals. Bitcoin was designed from the ground up to be pure money, and that is a feature, not a bug. Bitcoin is money specialized. Arguably, so is today's fiat (specialized money), but fiat has a massive drawback in the fact that it is controlled by a few, to the advantage of those few.

it seems you dont like the idea of intrinsic value and do away with it because you know that bitcoin doesnt have it.

If that is what you take from my post, I must have severe difficulties conveying meaning with the written word.

no you did fine, was reading between the lines and trying to make my point.

[Lauda]

Anything that i give value to, has value.