POLL | Should Gavin decline or accept the CFR invite ?

[empoweoqwj]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

FWIW, I happen to agree. Bitcoin has to play ball if it wants to grow. A truly anonymous currency like ZeroCoin will just get stamped on by every government in the world.

[exocytosis]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

[empoweoqwj]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

[exocytosis]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

[Hippie Tech]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

[empoweoqwj]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

We absolutely need government support, or you end up with a currency that is just used for illegal activities and will eventually all be seized by the feds, just my 2 cents .....

[Vlad2Vlad]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

We absolutely need government support, or you end up with a currency that is just used for illegal activities and will eventually all be seized by the feds, just my 2 cents .....

It's not been about need.  We don't have a choice.  You people think the govts, the fed and banks are just gonna give up all that power, money and control to the masses?

Bhahahaaaaa.

That will never happen.  They can see these currencies can give them total control over the masses and they're gonna play it nice and slow to not scare anyone away but in the end whatever currency ends up being the global currency it will be controlled by the same people and they will use it to enslave the masses, err, fight poverty and terrorism.  lol.

[empoweoqwj]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

We absolutely need government support, or you end up with a currency that is just used for illegal activities and will eventually all be seized by the feds, just my 2 cents .....

It's not been about need.  We don't have a choice.  You people think the govts, the fed and banks are just gonna give up all that power, money and control to the masses?

Bhahahaaaaa.

That will never happen.  They can see these currencies can give them total control over the masses and they're gonna play it nice and slow to not scare anyone away but in the end whatever currency ends up being the global currency it will be controlled by the same people and they will use it to enslave the masses, err, fight poverty and terrorism.  lol.

You are right. We don't have a choice. Governments set regulations. Regulations define what can and can't be done in their country. If you are saying its inevitable governments will inevitably end up controlling bitcoin you may ..... unfortunately be right. But I still don't think Gavin has anything to lose by talking  to people

[Hippie Tech]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

We absolutely need government support, or you end up with a currency that is just used for illegal activities and will eventually all be seized by the feds, just my 2 cents .....

It's not been about need.  We don't have a choice.  You people think the govts, the fed and banks are just gonna give up all that power, money and control to the masses?

Bhahahaaaaa.

That will never happen.  They can see these currencies can give them total control over the masses and they're gonna play it nice and slow to not scare anyone away but in the end whatever currency ends up being the global currency it will be controlled by the same people and they will use it to enslave the masses, err, fight poverty and terrorism.  lol.

But it can happen.

They are playing nice because they know we can throw the TOR and IP2 blankets over their heads and disappear from their radar.

@ empoweoqwj  I'm sooo tired of seeing people fall for the silk road/ illegal activities excuse/ cop out. eg. 70-90% of USD has traces of narcotics on it or is used in other illegal ways.

[Hippie Tech]

WARNING !!

We have everything to gain !

They have everything to lose !

[empoweoqwj]

You people are naive.  I've said from day one there is no such thing as anonymous digital currencies and whatever digital currency is chosen as the global currency, it will be owned and controlled by the same powers who control money now, only they will use this new power of digital money to completely control the sheep masses who were too stupid to see this coming.

In other words, if Bitcoin doesn't play ball they will destroy it very easily via media propaganda and legislation and replace it with a different currency.  There will never be anything like ZeroCoin in circulation and you can bet if Bitcoin were to adopt ZeroCoin it would be destroyed.

So stop asking silly questions.  The real question is:  will Gavin et al obey the govt and banks all the way and if they don't which coin will they choose as its replacement?

That is the only relevant question.

You are, of course, absolutely right. And yes, Gavin and the rest of the Bitcoin developers will obey the government and the banksters.

Its not about "obeying" - its about co-operating so that bitcoin can operate in a regulated environment. Try operating an ATM or exchange if the feds are after you all the time.

Indeed. And I'm sure Satoshi would applaud such cooperation. That's why he said things like:

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."

I beg to differ as you have severely misunderstood and/or underestimated Mr. Nakamoto's statement. He is in fact saying the complete opposite.

Moral and political reasoning aside, we simply DO NOT NEED THEM.

So.. go ahead.. ride that gator's back across the river.

We absolutely need government support, or you end up with a currency that is just used for illegal activities and will eventually all be seized by the feds, just my 2 cents .....

It's not been about need.  We don't have a choice.  You people think the govts, the fed and banks are just gonna give up all that power, money and control to the masses?

Bhahahaaaaa.

That will never happen.  They can see these currencies can give them total control over the masses and they're gonna play it nice and slow to not scare anyone away but in the end whatever currency ends up being the global currency it will be controlled by the same people and they will use it to enslave the masses, err, fight poverty and terrorism.  lol.

But it can happen.

They are playing nice because they know we can throw the TOR and IP2 blankets over their heads and disappear from their radar.

@ empoweoqwj  I'm sooo tired of seeing people fall for the silk road/ illegal activities excuse/ cop out. eg. 70-90% of USD has traces of narcotics on it or is used in other illegal ways.

All I was saying is if governments ban bitcoins from being used for legal purposes, like buying and selling stuff online or offline, or trading it, then all you have left is the illegal stuff. Not a complex argument and I've not "fallen" for anything.

Of course I understand cash is used for narcotic purchases. But cash is used legally for other things. If bitcoin is banned, it can only be used for illegal things.

[Vlad2Vlad]

People don't seem to understand that one single executive order would ban bitcoin based on national security and no entity would accept it which would render it useless except for illegal use.

It's that easy and the fact the govt hasnt fine it proves they have plans for it and if Bitcoin doesn't obey they will choose a different currency (iXcoin) and then find an easy way to kill BTC.

[empoweoqwj]

People don't seem to understand that one single executive order would ban bitcoin based on national security and no entity would accept it which would render it useless except for illegal use.

It's that easy and the fact the govt hasnt fine it proves they have plans for it and if Bitcoin doesn't obey they will choose a different currency (iXcoin) and then find an easy way to kill BTC.

Of course the US government could ban bitcoin in an instant. Which is why the bitcoin community has to "play ball" if they want bitcoin to become a real economic force. Its what worries me about attempts to make a "totally anonymous coin" - now that is something everything government will quickly make illegal. What's the point?

[JohnsonRobinson]

Governments will be unable to stop a Bitcoin-based money that serves the masses.

Those who tell us:  "we need to ask for permission" from the parasitic psychopath ultra-elite (i.e. CFR, etc.), don't recognize that we now have the tool to take away their power; or they do recognize it but want to convince us of otherwise.

Those who tell us:  "we need to work within the framework" that holds abusive power over us, don't recognize that we now have the tool to create a new framework, a new paradigm; or they do recognize it but want to convince us of otherwise.

To Bitcoiners everywhere, we must be very careful of any who want to convince us that we have less power than we actually do; and of any who want to convince us that we should give up that power.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

My instincts believe yes, hence...

[empoweoqwj]

My instincts believe yes, hence...

"Hence"? .... leave in a state of suspense

[Vlad2Vlad]

Governments will be unable to stop a Bitcoin-based money that serves the masses.

Those who tell us:  "we need to ask for permission" from the parasitic psychopath ultra-elite (i.e. CFR, etc.), don't recognize that we now have the tool to take away their power; or they do recognize it but want to convince us of otherwise.

Those who tell us:  "we need to work within the framework" that holds abusive power over us, don't recognize that we now have the tool to create a new framework, a new paradigm; or they do recognize it but want to convince us of otherwise.

To Bitcoiners everywhere, we must be very careful of any who want to convince us that we have less power than we actually do; and of any who want to convince us that we should give up that power.

What power?  If they ban BTC, and they can, what will you do with all your BTC? You can't even wipe your ass with them?

Where will you spend them when no reputable place will take them and anyone who does risks prison?

That's not power, that's powerless and the whole point of this money is to take the little power the masses have and give it all to the Feds bad banks and look:  it's working brilliantly cause people are sheep.  Bitcoin was nothing more than the carrot, soon they will not need it anymore and they will use a different coin without the bad press and without some foundation to get in their way.

[JohnsonRobinson]

I said Bitcoin-BASED, meaning the consensus-driven technology that underlies Bitcoin.  That's here to stay.

I would like to see Bitcoin succeed, but if it doesn't, a different crypto based on the technology underlying it will succeed, for the benefit of the masses. 

Given this reality, there's no point at this stage in giving Bitcoin up to / asking permission from, the ultra-elite power mongers (e.g., CFR, etc., etc.).  It's just a waste.

We don't need a baby-sitter and the would-be baby-sitters don't have the right to be our baby-sitters.

That's the bottom line.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I said Bitcoin-BASED, meaning the consensus-driven technology that underlies Bitcoin.  That's here to stay.

I would like to see Bitcoin succeed, but if it doesn't, a different crypto based on the technology underlying it will succeed, for the benefit of the masses. 

Given this reality, there's no point at this stage in giving Bitcoin up to / asking permission from, the ultra-elite power mongers (e.g., CFR, etc., etc.).  It's just a waste.

We don't need a baby-sitter and the would-be baby-sitters don't have the right to be our baby-sitters.

That's the bottom line.

I agree they cannot kill this tech but no crypto money will succeed without their approval.  That's a guarantee.  What that means is that whichever currency succeeds will in fact be their choice and under their control.  So they will know when you buy condoms and when you give your kid $5 and they'll turn off your wallet at will. 

And that is the purpose of these currencies as you will all realize in due time.  They we're never made for the masses as they simply cannot survive without govt approval.

[HarmZ]

It's ridiculous that there is a poll for this. How about we let Gavin decide for himself.

Also when I read all the comments here about governments I can't help but think that eventually one of them will start mining bitcoin (or some other altcoin) industrially. And when that happens other governments will soon follow (at least I hope so or else the coin will be lost) =. Which probably has some very interesting effects on the whole cryptocurrency community.

How do you guys think about that?