Atheism does not exist

[DieJohnny]

We do have the capability to know all

the dunning kruger effect deals with the fact that the more a person knows the more they realize how little they know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

what do you think this says about someone who believes that he can know everything?

That effect can be interpreted in more than one way in this context. E.g.:

The Dunning–Kruger effect Atheism is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals atheists suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability knowledge about a god/s much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled atheists to recognize their ineptitude.[1] Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding.

what on earth are you talking about. atheism doesn't claim any knowledge about god. in fact its almost the exact opposite of what you just claimed that it was. it is the claim that people ought not claim to know that god exists. break down the word. a-theist, opposition to theism, opposition to belief IN god. this is not a claim that god doesn't exist.

this is the great lie about atheism.

Even the most brilliant men in the world are specialists, collectively we can know much, but individually we rely on others as do all atheists, they trust and worship the viewpoints the greats among them. Atheism does have a belief system, core values, and strong belief in how life is created and what moral fabric we should wrap ourselves in, just like any religion does. Those things would only become more developed and uniform as atheism progresses.

In time, were Atheism to take over the planet, everything about Atheism would look exactly like what we call a cult today. If you showed any sign that you were a non-non-believer you would be outcast or worse.

and in that strange atheist future world, the mystery of what give chemicals life will still be a mystery and and still be a miracle

what on earth are you talking about.

From wikipedia: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

That doesn't say ANYTHING about where life comes from or morality. Your parapgraph is like claiming that "most black people like chicken" there for the definition of Black person is "someone with dark skin who eats chicken".

I am glad you can read from wikipedia to counter my point.

Maybe i didn't speak plain enough. Atheists support each other, they look to wise men to support their beliefs, they even now congregate on Sundays to support one another and be edified in their own holy words.

Are you that blinded, Atheism is simply an effort to place their own belief system above others and  eventually atheism will be no different than what you tear down today. You may not ever call your supreme leader God, but you will eventually have one.

Atheism is another round in the constant human struggle of replacing one human control mechanism with another. In this case is is the ultimate ruse, lets demonize religion while we replace it with a religion of our own.

 

[richo262]

You think that if atheists support eachother must be members of a church?

I'll admit, the only thing I can appreciate about religion is it does have value communally, but only for those people that share that orientation ... for example, its charitable to one another, it aims to care for one another, it provides a basic human interaction that we all need, it is cultural ... on the other side it provides an outlet for priests to have a steady supply of children, it is responsible for some of the biggest wars (pre WWI/II) on the planet against those who do not share the same values, it spawned the KKK, it's values are set in something that is infallible and should never be questions (fascism), it is a business model that channels funds to one much larger organisation tax free.

You seem to think that if two or more people meet up in a room to discuss their perspective it is a church. The Alcohol Anonymous Church, The Lawn Bowls Church, The LAN Party Church?

I don't attend any Atheist Club (Church) meetings or whatever you would like to call it. I can tell you this, I'd probably prefer it be labelled as a religion because then we get to do it all tax free, we would get to genuinely rip down all festivities on public property and say 'IT OFFENDS MY RELIGION' then cry, and call you a racist ... because it was the religious neanderthals that somehow merged the word religion and race together.

Atheist does not have a dogma, no text, no commandments, no specific way of life, just an investigative mindset, a curious mindset, critical thought is the only commandment.

If a group of critical thinkers in one room is a church, then MIT and Mensa are now churches.

The reason why religious people want to declare Atheism a religion is so they can effectively try to diffuse our only statement of 'I am not convinced of religion' by saying, 'but you are in a religion'.

Atheism is as much a religion as being bald is a haircut. Or about how if you don't follow football and therefore don't have a favorite football team, 'No Football team' is your favorite team. Or playing a game of musical chairs and being the only left standing, declaring your lack if chair is still a chair ...

[Anon136]

We do have the capability to know all

the dunning kruger effect deals with the fact that the more a person knows the more they realize how little they know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

what do you think this says about someone who believes that he can know everything?

That effect can be interpreted in more than one way in this context. E.g.:

The Dunning–Kruger effect Atheism is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals atheists suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability knowledge about a god/s much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled atheists to recognize their ineptitude.[1] Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding.

what on earth are you talking about. atheism doesn't claim any knowledge about god. in fact its almost the exact opposite of what you just claimed that it was. it is the claim that people ought not claim to know that god exists. break down the word. a-theist, opposition to theism, opposition to belief IN god. this is not a claim that god doesn't exist.

this is the great lie about atheism.

Even the most brilliant men in the world are specialists, collectively we can know much, but individually we rely on others as do all atheists, they trust and worship the viewpoints the greats among them. Atheism does have a belief system, core values, and strong belief in how life is created and what moral fabric we should wrap ourselves in, just like any religion does. Those things would only become more developed and uniform as atheism progresses.

In time, were Atheism to take over the planet, everything about Atheism would look exactly like what we call a cult today. If you showed any sign that you were a non-non-believer you would be outcast or worse.

and in that strange atheist future world, the mystery of what give chemicals life will still be a mystery and and still be a miracle

what on earth are you talking about.

From wikipedia: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

That doesn't say ANYTHING about where life comes from or morality. Your parapgraph is like claiming that "most black people like chicken" there for the definition of Black person is "someone with dark skin who eats chicken".

I am glad you can read from wikipedia to counter my point.

Maybe i didn't speak plain enough. Atheists support each other, they look to wise men to support their beliefs, they even now congregate on Sundays to support one another and be edified in their own holy words.

Are you that blinded, Atheism is simply an effort to place their own belief system above others and  eventually atheism will be no different than what you tear down today. You may not ever call your supreme leader God, but you will eventually have one.

Atheism is another round in the constant human struggle of replacing one human control mechanism with another. In this case is is the ultimate ruse, lets demonize religion while we replace it with a religion of our own.

 

Ok I'm sure some atheists do that stuff. so what. that doesn't have anything to do with what atheism is. there for that comment where the word people was replaced by atheiest in the Dunning Kruger effect doesn't apply here. Im sure it applies to some athiests but im sure it also applies to some hispanic people and some gays and some basket ball players. Should we sweep them into such a broad generalization also?

[JFKing]

You think that if atheists support eachother must be members of a church?

I'll admit, the only thing I can appreciate about religion is it does have value communally, but only for those people that share that orientation ... for example, its charitable to one another, it aims to care for one another, it provides a basic human interaction that we all need, it is cultural ... on the other side it provides an outlet for priests to have a steady supply of children, it is responsible for some of the biggest wars (pre WWI/II) on the planet against those who do not share the same values, it spawned the KKK, it's values are set in something that is infallible and should never be questions (fascism), it is a business model that channels funds to one much larger organisation tax free.

You seem to think that if two or more people meet up in a room to discuss their perspective it is a church. The Alcohol Anonymous Church, The Lawn Bowls Church, The LAN Party Church?

I don't attend any Atheist Club (Church) meetings or whatever you would like to call it. I can tell you this, I'd probably prefer it be labelled as a religion because then we get to do it all tax free, we would get to genuinely rip down all festivities on public property and say 'IT OFFENDS MY RELIGION' then cry, and call you a racist ... because it was the religious neanderthals that somehow merged the word religion and race together.

Atheist does not have a dogma, no text, no commandments, no specific way of life, just an investigative mindset, a curious mindset, critical thought is the only commandment.

If a group of critical thinkers in one room is a church, then MIT and Mensa are now churches.

The reason why religious people want to declare Atheism a religion is so they can effectively try to diffuse our only statement of 'I am not convinced of religion' by saying, 'but you are in a religion'.

Atheism is as much a religion as being bald is a haircut. Or about how if you don't follow football and therefore don't have a favorite football team, 'No Football team' is your favorite team. Or playing a game of musical chairs and being the only left standing, declaring your lack if chair is still a chair ...

I don't want to be a "church" member; it's insane. 

[DieJohnny]

Atheism is as much a religion as being bald is a haircut. Or about how if you don't follow football and therefore don't have a favorite football team, 'No Football team' is your favorite team. Or playing a game of musical chairs and being the only left standing, declaring your lack if chair is still a chair ...

History says otherwise.

Napoleon, China, North Korea, Russia, the list goes on and on.

The first rule in controlling mankind is to take away their religion, doesn't everyone know that?

You can live in a fantasy world that atheism is about being free from religion, but it is a fantasy.

[organofcorti]

Atheism is as much a religion as being bald is a haircut. Or about how if you don't follow football and therefore don't have a favorite football team, 'No Football team' is your favorite team. Or playing a game of musical chairs and being the only left standing, declaring your lack if chair is still a chair ...

History says otherwise.

Napoleon, China, North Korea, Russia, the list goes on and on.

The first rule in controlling mankind is to take away their religion, doesn't everyone know that?

You can live in a fantasy world that atheism is about being free from religion, but it is a fantasy.

Clearly, you think "Atheism" is a 'thing'. It's not. It's the lack of a 'thing'.

Instead of the term "atheist" try the term "unbeliever". It might help you understand people who have a different view of the world to you.

[SirLolicon]

Can we just agree that the idea of Atheism and Religion is all
subjective/relative?

[travel-trousers]

Christians are so silly!

If heaven is so great then all Christians should be out skydiving and doing dangerous fun stuff.

If I believed in God I couldn't wait to meet him.

Instead, all they do is complain about how the rest of us are going to hell :p

[dank]

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

[Anon136]

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

its not any of those things. i already told you. its opposition to theism. or opposition to believing that gods exist.

[FalconFly]

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

*omg*

Just for a minute.... just for a minute - imagine what kind of world we would live in, IF everybody was actually employing that "logic" (which defies the very definition of logic but so be it).
Imagine everybody tossing out knowledge, common sense and reason and exchange it for.... believes.

*fomg* we'd die like flies...

Pedestrian
Oh, I believe it's safe to cross that road now... BAM hit by a vehicle driver believing noone would cross right now (believe death toll just increased)

Thirsty person
I believe that fluid coming out of that pipe is drinkable... BAM person found dead near chemical plant's release pipes (believe death toll just increased)

Airline Pilot in shitty weather
I believe we're pretty well on track for landing... BAM crashed into ground 5mi short of runway (believe death toll just increased)

Person in the zoo
I believe that wildcat isn't so bad, it looks so sleepy and friendly... BAM visitor devoured by a lion (believe death toll just increased)

Construction worker
I believe these cables should hold the weight I need lifted by that crane.... BAM 5 co-workers killed in freak accident (believe death toll just increased)

NASA 1st stage rocket assembly specialist
I believe those alloys should easily withstand the static and dynamic loads at launch.... BAM rocket explosion on ramp destroys launch vehicle and is major setback in NASA space program

Playing children near frozen lake
We believe that ice is thick enough for us to play on.... BAM tragic accident leaves only one survivor of 6, police divers still locating bodies of missing children (believe death toll just increased)

Mountain climber
I believe that difficulty 5 wall is doable for me... BAM another climber missing on the mountain, rescue teams still searching for clues (believe death toll just increased)

Person with medical issues
I believe those dark spots probably come with age, nothing to worry about... BAM rotten body found in home, neighbours shocked. Probable cause of death could be untreated skin cancer (believe death toll just increased)

Ship's captain
I believe the waters near the islands are deep enough to come close and greet my friends from the bridge... BAM newsflash : Costa Concordia capsized near island, 50 still missing (believe death toll just increased)

This list could go on forever...
Freaks me out there actually could be mentally retarded people roaming the streets betting their lifes on believes. I'd prefer waking up in Zombieland, rather than share the same location with such "believers".

Here's a hint for the OP :
Go diving into an unknown cave without oxygen tanks... Firmly imagine air pockets and oxygen just another 50feet further into the cave. Just keep diving deeper into the cave, because according to your "logic", those life-saving things should exist - because you thought of them, thus they must exist.

[cp1]

This is how they think.  If I look into myself and believe it it must be true.  Climate change is a hoax because that's how I feel.  I don't feel vaccines are safe, my kid will be magically protected from smallpox.  God exists because I feel him.

There's no need to reason with these people, they go off what they feel, not what has been proven.

[FalconFly]

True...

Their abandoning of reason (with everything that comes from it) IMHO is the primary cause for their irrational/delusional line of argumentation - which outside of religion would get anyone of us into mandatory psychological treatment in no time.

It often seems to me them focussing their entire lifes around these superstitions forces them ever-deeper into delusion, as they could never accept they wasted their entire life "believing" in all that man-made science fiction. As the harsh reality keeps kicking them around, they have to create more and more insane mental constructions & workarounds in order to preserve their beloved believes, regardless of how ludicrous they gets.
Either that, or they feel so terribly insecure about everything they encounter in life that this mental virus appeals tor them (the proverbial saviour), as it at least gives them a false sense of security they otherwise completely lack.

Pretty ironic, one could call them "lost souls" as they are truly lost cases basically...

[travel-trousers]

"I dont understand something"

therefore

"God made it that way, and I don't need to think anymore"

Ignorance is bliss :p

[dank]

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

its not any of those things. i already told you. its opposition to theism. or opposition to believing that gods exist.

Why oppose anything?  Better yet, why oppose love?  For that is what god truly is, the highest form of energy, consciousness.

True...

Their abandoning of reason (with everything that comes from it) IMHO is the primary cause for their irrational/delusional line of argumentation - which outside of religion would get anyone of us into mandatory psychological treatment in no time.

It often seems to me them focussing their entire lifes around these superstitions forces them ever-deeper into delusion, as they could never accept they wasted their entire life "believing" in all that man-made science fiction. As the harsh reality keeps kicking them around, they have to create more and more insane mental constructions & workarounds in order to preserve their beloved believes, regardless of how ludicrous they gets.
Either that, or they feel so terribly insecure about everything they encounter in life that this mental virus appeals tor them (the proverbial saviour), as it at least gives them a false sense of security they otherwise completely lack.

Pretty ironic, one could call them "lost souls" as they are truly lost cases basically...

And what more is reason than judgement?

What does science explain other than what we are physically able to measure?  Is it any more than law that dictates our own limitations due to what we perceive them to be?  Why does it fail to explain what we experience?  Dreams, thoughts, existence, death?  Love?

For one to realize the true existence of self, one must transcend beyond all language.  Words are created to describe concepts of our existence, do describe the essence of god.  When you are able to find no words, no thoughts, just now, then you will see the true being of the universe.

[FalconFly]

And what more is reason than judgement?

What does science explain other than what we are physically able to measure?  Is it any more than law that dictates our own limitations due to what we perceive them to be?  Why does it fail to explain what we experience?  Dreams, thoughts, existence, death?  Love?

For one to realize the true existence of self, one must transcend beyond all language.  Words are created to describe concepts of our existence, do describe the essence of god.  When you are able to find no words, no thoughts, just now, then you will see the true being of the universe.

Judgement alone can be dead wrong, judgement is a follow-up thought process after information being carefully going through the filtering process of reason.
Science explains not only what we are able to measure, but also works the frontier of what is not able to be measured yet. Additionally, science yields the answers to the question why measurements actually come out the way they do under specific circumstances and effectively allows to calculate instead of build & measure.
This allows for planning with an optimum success rate.

Science also does not fail to explain what we experience, the processes of Neurochemistry are pretty well understood by now. I highly advise to get up-to-speed with the current scienfitic knowledge.
Where science does not have definite answers yet, it works on achieving them step by step. This is the natural process of science and not a failure of any kind - after all there's no magic involved and aquiring knowledge takes time.

Also, never confuse "perception" with science, these are two entirely different worlds (and human perception is pretty well understood by science). Again, please get up-to-speed with current scientific knowledge instead of making such clearly uneducated claims.

Note that our existence is not bound to "language" or words/speech of any kind. Words are created solely to communicate and store/pass along knowledge and information - and have absolutely nothing to do with superstitious make-believes/god etc.

When you are able to find no words, no thoughts, just now, then you either should go see a doctor (if it's a repeating occurence) or just take your time. You'll find words eventually (otherwise try to improve your language skills and boost your vocabulary).
The true being of the universe has absolutely no relation to literally anything you wrote.

Technically speaking, you either suffer from a severe condition or are what some people call a "religious robot". If have no better explanation for the utterly senseless stuff you write that is bursting from flawed pseudo-logic and absurd claims and false conclusions.

[cp1]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean science hasn't explained it.  It just means you don't understand it.  When religious people say that the human eye is so complex it must be formed by god, it just means that they aren't smart enough to go research how it formed over time.  Oddly enough, you're just as clueless how your smart phone works, but you don't think god made it for some reason.

[KonstantinosM]

There is no proof of god therefore by your logic god does not exist.

Your logic however is flawed. The one who is trying to prove a negative is always the religious person in a given debate.

The atheists simply point out that the concept of god has no predictive capacity. You have the burden of proof with no proof.


Game Over.

[cp1]

Religious people also completely ignore the scientific method, which is also a non-starter.

[Anon136]

Whether you call atheism unbelief, disbelief, or lack of belief, there is no logical reason to me that one would not believe in everything, for everything surely does exist.

It's like saying, I can see and think of the beach but I don't believe it exists.

If you can experience something, then that something is not nothing, it's part of everything.  So why believe in something but not everything?

its not any of those things. i already told you. its opposition to theism. or opposition to believing that gods exist.

Why oppose anything?

So you don't oppose the willful torturing of new born babies?

Either you do not oppose the willful torturing of babies or you do and you would say something like "why oppose anything?" anyway. Either way its pretty good evidence that you are mentally ill. I'm not saying that to hurt your feelings. Im saying it because recognizing something is the first step towards correcting it.

I understand that we live in a world of lies where more than half of everything we are ever told from friends, families, authorities, and even scientists is fiction. Sometimes its easy to go to far is lashing back against this. Considering the sorts of things that you occupy your mind with you really ought to consider engaging in a deep study of epistemology. It may help you to regain some rooting in reality. Hell with the way your mind works you may even be able to add something to the field. But you HAVE to be rigorous and that means that you have to look for, identify, and REJECT paradoxes. You can not passively accept paradoxes.