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Author Topic: the Hodl and why.  (Read 5174 times)
T.Stuart
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January 19, 2014, 09:43:39 AM
 #21

Unless you have money to burn or a sixth sense, do not day-trade with Bitcoin. Investing for the long-term has proven to be far more profitable for most.

This is interesting and I think a lot of people around these forums agree with you. The thing to remember though is that buy and hold is a great strategy until it's not. I don't think it's wise to assume that previous growth in the price of bitcoin is going to continue forever. Unfortunately, new investors in almost every new raging bull market make the same assumption. Now that said, I would think you're probably safe as of now because there's still quite a bit more upside left to the market (in my opinion).

I think about it like this... who lost money in the 2009 stock market crash? Or the .com bubble? Or the 1929 Black Friday crash? Lost significant long term, life changing money in the form of unrealized gains that turn into huge losses?

It's always buy and hold investors that take the brunt of those losses. Swing/day traders might actually make huge profits on those same days. So sometimes the safe strategy isn't so safe when the market conditions suddenly switch on you. Short term investors have the ability to adjust to rapidly changing conditions where investors following the buy and hold strategy will be much slower to respond.  

You're on the right track here with your words but there's something you're not making clear enough. This is not about two types of "trading"; this is about "trading" and "investing".

Let's say "trading" means aiming to make money from daily/weekly trends. "Investing" means looking at the fundamentals and judging whether there is more growth to happen over the long-term. Actually when it really comes down to fundamentals such as the balance sheet, the technology, the potential untapped markets, etc. against the tools used for trading such as Fibonacci retracement, triangles, etc., "investing" and "trading" (as described above) are two very different things, and generally-speaking they are seen as such across the markets today.

For any newb coming here trading is dangerous. For quite a few it is the first time they have had access to exchanges, charts, etc. With the benefit of hindsight they think it's easy to predict things and double your money in days. They also get swayed by the madness in here. And they get burned straight away!

Overall the fundamentals of Bitcoin look very good right now. If it wasn't for these, notably for example (after looking at the technology itself) the huge potential for adoption (the market is no-where near saturation), then far fewer people, myself included, would be advising investing.

For many of those coming here it provides a rare opportunity to be able freely to invest in the equivalent of a promising tech start up, something they would not be able to do elsewhere.

For experienced traders who are looking at it from a daily perspective, Bitcoin is simply another set of charts and data - another challenge to decipher. But would a pure trader be winning over a hodler at this early stage? I think for the vast majority investing will still be the most profitable course of action, and certainly the wisest, for 2014.

                                                                               
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jballs
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January 19, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
 #22


A pretty good book on the subject...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091XN1KS#!


(not an affiliate link) 

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jubalix (OP)
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January 19, 2014, 11:57:30 AM
 #23

Unless you have money to burn or a sixth sense, do not day-trade with Bitcoin. Investing for the long-term has proven to be far more profitable for most.

This is interesting and I think a lot of people around these forums agree with you. The thing to remember though is that buy and hold is a great strategy until it's not. I don't think it's wise to assume that previous growth in the price of bitcoin is going to continue forever. Unfortunately, new investors in almost every new raging bull market make the same assumption. Now that said, I would think you're probably safe as of now because there's still quite a bit more upside left to the market (in my opinion).

I think about it like this... who lost money in the 2009 stock market crash? Or the .com bubble? Or the 1929 Black Friday crash? Lost significant long term, life changing money in the form of unrealized gains that turn into huge losses?

It's always buy and hold investors that take the brunt of those losses. Swing/day traders might actually make huge profits on those same days. So sometimes the safe strategy isn't so safe when the market conditions suddenly switch on you. Short term investors have the ability to adjust to rapidly changing conditions where investors following the buy and hold strategy will be much slower to respond.  

there was no, microwave crash, wheel crash, etc, these invention are with us today. Crypto is that sort of new invention. Aslo the .com bust was very limited to those who could even get a buy in, crypto are far more broad based.

Admitted Practicing Lawyer::BTC/Crypto Specialist. B.Engineering/B.Laws

https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
deadfi$h
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January 19, 2014, 11:58:12 AM
 #24

Unless you have money to burn or a sixth sense, do not day-trade with Bitcoin. Investing for the long-term has proven to be far more profitable for most.

This is interesting and I think a lot of people around these forums agree with you. The thing to remember though is that buy and hold is a great strategy until it's not. I don't think it's wise to assume that previous growth in the price of bitcoin is going to continue forever. Unfortunately, new investors in almost every new raging bull market make the same assumption. Now that said, I would think you're probably safe as of now because there's still quite a bit more upside left to the market (in my opinion).

I think about it like this... who lost money in the 2009 stock market crash? Or the .com bubble? Or the 1929 Black Friday crash? Lost significant long term, life changing money in the form of unrealized gains that turn into huge losses?

It's always buy and hold investors that take the brunt of those losses. Swing/day traders might actually make huge profits on those same days. So sometimes the safe strategy isn't so safe when the market conditions suddenly switch on you. Short term investors have the ability to adjust to rapidly changing conditions where investors following the buy and hold strategy will be much slower to respond.  

For any newb coming here trading is dangerous. For quite a few it is the first time they have had access to exchanges, charts, etc. With the benefit of hindsight they think it's easy to predict things and double your money in days. They also get swayed by the madness in here. And they get burned straight away!

Overall the fundamentals of Bitcoin look very good right now. If it wasn't for these, notably for example (after looking at the technology itself) the huge potential for adoption (the market is no-where near saturation), then far fewer people, myself included, would be advising investing.


I agree with most of your points about trading vs investing. They are different mindsets.

I don't agree that an inexperienced trader/investor is somehow able to accurately judge the fundamentals of any commodity/stock/currency and turn that into an accurate price target. Bitcoin is especially difficult to do fundamental analysis on because there aren't any direct comparisons to it that have already matured. I have a strong feeling that bitcoin is going to become widely adopted and will see lots more upside. I wouldn't feel comfortable investing based on that feeling though... it's not real analysis.

Actually, the cool thing about bitcoin exchanges is that they only charge a percentage fee per trade and no flat fee per transaction (like a stock broker would). That means you could potentially trade with an account worth $10 and see how much you could increase it in percentage terms and it would be very similar to how you'd trade a $10,000 account. If there was a flat fee (say $2 per trade) that wouldn't be possible. Newbies have a pretty easy path to practice trading without big risks.

T.Stuart
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January 19, 2014, 12:04:20 PM
 #25


I agree with most of your points about trading vs investing. They are different mindsets.

I don't agree that an inexperienced trader/investor is somehow able to accurately judge the fundamentals of any commodity/stock/currency and turn that into an accurate price target. Bitcoin is especially difficult to do fundamental analysis on because there aren't any direct comparisons to it that have already matured. I have a strong feeling that bitcoin is going to become widely adopted and will see lots more upside. I wouldn't feel comfortable investing based on that feeling though... it's not fundamental analysis.


Agreed. But in this case fundamental analysis then has to mean working with what you've got. Still certainly very do-able, even if you end up with a set of results that put together cannot be precisely compared to anything that exists today!


The cool thing about bitcoin exchanges is that they only charge a percentage fee per trade and no flat fee per transaction (like stock brokers do). That means you could potentially trade with an account worth $10 and see how much you could increase it in percentage terms and it would be very similar to how you'd trade a $10,000 account. Newbies would have a pretty easy path to learning without big risks.


New people... If you want to trade take this advice!

                                                                               
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piramida
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January 19, 2014, 12:12:48 PM
 #26


The cool thing about bitcoin exchanges is that they only charge a percentage fee per trade and no flat fee per transaction (like stock brokers do). That means you could potentially trade with an account worth $10 and see how much you could increase it in percentage terms and it would be very similar to how you'd trade a $10,000 account. Newbies would have a pretty easy path to learning without big risks.


New people... If you want to trade take this advice!


I don't think you can go far with a $10 account, there is a minimum trade limit of 0.01 btc at least on gox which could be more than $10 at times Smiley But you could experiment with a $100 account, sure.

i am satoshi
deadfi$h
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January 19, 2014, 12:19:58 PM
 #27


I don't think you can go far with a $10 account, there is a minimum trade limit of 0.01 btc at least on gox which could be more than $10 at times Smiley But you could experiment with a $100 account, sure.

Yeah, depends on the exchange. Minimum on Bitfinex is 0.001 which works out to about 80 cents/trade.

I started with a mini account to get comfortable with bitcoin before putting any real money in but a bit bigger than that. Took awhile to get the hang of things for sure!
Richard Branson
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January 19, 2014, 01:32:43 PM
 #28

Don't forget to take the psychological effect into consideration.
"Normal" people don't trade the same with a 10$ account as they would do with a 10000$.

You can't learn to drive a race car on a bicycle.
ArpFlush
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February 03, 2014, 12:38:49 PM
 #29

HODL and buy Bitcoin-shirts  Grin

"Panic Selling is not an Investment Strategy"
yayayo
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February 03, 2014, 02:38:04 PM
 #30

Don't forget to take the psychological effect into consideration.
"Normal" people don't trade the same with a 10$ account as they would do with a 10000$.

You can't learn to drive a race car on a bicycle.

TL;DR: HODL and hodl are not the same.  Grin


ya.ya.yo!

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