The Wasp Project Collective Information thread.

[Bicknellski]

Hello,

Just to let you know guys. I am thinking about selling on e-bay bulk HF Golden Nonce chips soon if anyone is interested.

Currently have enough chips in our design pipeline.

Thanks for the information will keep it in mind for later in 2014 if the price is right and if HF compensation for customers seems to be resolved.

[arkintunde]

Just found this post and I'm very interested. Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, you guys are working on some DIY instructions for building miners if you have access to chips like the Minion from BA? If this is correct, that definitely sparks my interest as I have a delayed order with BA that they have offered to convert to Minion chips. What kind of knowledge would someone need to be able to follow these DIY instructions to build a miner? What kind of equipment would I need?

Thanks

[Bicknellski]

Just found this post and I'm very interested. Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, you guys are working on some DIY instructions for building miners if you have access to chips like the Minion from BA? If this is correct, that definitely sparks my interest as I have a delayed order with BA that they have offered to convert to Minion chips. What kind of knowledge would someone need to be able to follow these DIY instructions to build a miner? What kind of equipment would I need?

Thanks

Currently we have set priority for chip development based the small team and limited resources of our group currently as we are self funded and we do will not fabricate and sell our miners. We will license our designs and firmware to those who are interested in resales or fab and ownership of our boards. The Black Arrow Minion chips were pushed later down the list. Here is the order of prototype development. There are a number of people working with BA on to fix the design and will more than likely be completed well before we even look at our later designs for the Minion. Our priority right now is the Hammer chips from Spondoolies we have in hand. The hammers are the 7.5 Gh/s chips, this design will only be a test bed for the WPC and our plan will be to rework this design with newer more powerful Minions, Rockerbox and Pickaxe chips. Rockerbox 200 Gh/s, Minions 115 Gh/s and the Pickaxe unknown Gh/s.

I let our EE know immediately when I learned about the BA delay and if he has time he might help if he can with the issues with their backplane design as we have had a good relationship with support back and forth with BA over the past 12 months. Having said that here is our priority for development.

Primary Development
 
Update will be available at our 31st of May Meeting on the following designs.

1st -  Hammer Whiteface   

(Allied Control) DataTank Prototype Form Factor   
2 Phase Cooling Test Board   
64 chips
480 Gh/s

2nd - Hammer Hornet

325mm x 325mm Prototype Form Factor
Air Cooled   
64 chips   
480 Gh/s

Edit

3rd - AM BE200 Hornet

325mm x 325mm Prototype Form Factor
Air Cooled
64 chips
768 Gh/s

Slated for Later Development Summer 2014 and into 2015

Rockerbox SpondooliesTech (Q2 Release of Chips)
Black Arrow Minion (In hand)
PickAxe SpondooliesTech (Q4 Release of Chips)

Having looked into our crystal ball we will probably be opening up membership again and looking to get more shares sold to the members in order to push on with our designs into the 2014 and 2015. If you are keen on membership please feel free to PM me or email for details. As always we need firmware designers and pcb designers to join the group as well as people keen on pushing the next generation of miners for DIYers and Higher Density Mining Operations looking for more control and density out of their replacement equipment.

[arkintunde]

Hmmm. I could potentially have 100 minion chips with their compensation offer which, if built into miners, would offer up a much better chance at ROI than the Prosperos themselves. I would have to start mining by July to make ROI though, so perhaps this is not feasible. Still, having no ROI on 14 TH/s worth of equipment is better than having no ROI on 6 TH/s if I'm looking at an investment within the same range. Is it reasonable to think you guys might have a working set of instructions available for Minions by August? I calculate that my ROI (or lack there of) would be equivalent or marginally better with the chips if I started mining by then.

[Bicknellski]

Hmmm. I could potentially have 100 minion chips with their compensation offer which, if built into miners, would offer up a much better chance at ROI than the Prosperos themselves. I would have to start mining by July to make ROI though, so perhaps this is not feasible. Still, having no ROI on 14 TH/s worth of equipment is better than having no ROI on 6 TH/s if I'm looking at an investment within the same range. Is it reasonable to think you guys might have a working set of instructions available for Minions by August? I calculate that my ROI (or lack there of) would be equivalent or marginally better with the chips if I started mining by then.

Correct you can't wait a day into July even if you want to make something of this. I have a few friends in this boat with you and there really is little you can opt for. Sell the chips? Sell the lower level compensation type miners? Get a refund? All I am sure is the WPC really at this point is focused on the form factor and the spoondoolies chips. We want to get something testing in Hong Kong come June at Allied Control. Given where we are now I am not even sure we can make that self imposed deadline but we will know more by May 31st at our meeting.

I would wait for them to get you a miner in your hands. Even if you have a design in hand, parts, fab, etc and a good EE to oversee things I am not sure chips are good option if the trend in getting things to work holds fast you need to have spondoolies / bitmain like commitment to pull off a working board. Also slight errors in fab could render all your chips POOCHED. You can't easily remove this type of chip and start again it would cost you a lot just to try with no certainty of success. I wish you luck and everyone else as well. It is sad to see BA go through such a hiccup so close to the finish line. As for August and a Minion Whiteface or Hornet who knows where we will be given the small team and the tight budget you are probably much better off looking towards someone like Marto, warts and all, for something along that angle to get chips to boards but do your research first before going that route.

[arkintunde]

Awesome. Thanks a lot for your response   Who's Marto Warts? I'm not so sure the chips are going to be the route I choose, unless I find someone willing to purchase 100 minion chips now, considering your advice, but I am still curious.

Edit: A bit of searching and I think I found who you mean .

[dmcdad]

Regarding near term and further out roadmap, did the AM BE200 design fall off the map? Looks like AM will have the most affordable pricing per GH on their chips in the near term so I would definitely be interested in hardware that supports their chips.

[dropt]

Regarding near term and further out roadmap, did the AM BE200 design fall off the map? Looks like AM will have the most affordable pricing per GH on their chips in the near term so I would definitely be interested in hardware that supports their chips.

It's already out and for sale through some less than trustworthy channels.  As low as 1$/GH in bulk, $1.4 - $1.5GH in smaller numbers.

[Bicknellski]

Regarding near term and further out roadmap, did the AM BE200 design fall off the map? Looks like AM will have the most affordable pricing per GH on their chips in the near term so I would definitely be interested in hardware that supports their chips.

AM BE200 is in there. I should edit that.

Would be 3rd in the pipeline. Likely an air cooled Hornet. Yes definitely AM is an excellent option price wise. Unfortunately we will have to sell a few shares before we can push too much beyond the spondoolies as we have budgeted only up to the Hammer chips we received last week. But ya if people are still doing the DIY thing the AM I would agree is an excellent choice but you know the drop in prices between bitmain and spondoolies for full miners makes me wonder how low things will go chip wise.

[Somekindabitcoin]

Seriously eh? They now sell the SP 30's for $1/GH

[necro_nemesis]

Seriously eh? They now sell the SP 30's for $1/GH

Delivery in August. The price of what you have and what you're going to have is separated by light years in this business. If it comes to unit cost AM should be able to do well with the low cost of 40nm process node until power requirements become the predominant factor.

[Bicknellski]

Seriously eh? They now sell the SP 30's for $1/GH

You can get an SP10 1.4 Th/s for just under $2 gh/s shipped today I think but go check.
I got 2 x SP30 or 12 Th/s for $0.69 gh/s free delivery for August well under $1 for the chips today. Even with chips in hand not sure I could beat $2 a board. Things need to be ramped up on a huge scale to get that sort price per unit.

The trend is down. Way down.
 
The SpondooliesTech are using a different pricing model I think on the chips. Instead of frontloading the costs they are spreading it out over a longer term meaning their chips are already going to be sub $1 at the 28nm possibly for sale but definitely set in the miners.

[Bicknellski]

Awesome. Thanks a lot for your response   Who's Marto Warts? I'm not so sure the chips are going to be the route I choose, unless I find someone willing to purchase 100 minion chips now, considering your advice, but I am still curious.

Edit: A bit of searching and I think I found who you mean .

You can try http://technobit.eu

I know they offer assembling chips on miners... Good luck!

Good luck indeed... make sure you do investigate any fabricator before you use them and that goes DOUBLE for that one given the issues some people have had getting refunds and hardware at times. You have been duly warned. Go ask Joeventura, Ben Turas and Darkfriend77 about what they had to go through with them.


Check this out:

Code:

	
Re: [Group buy] Avalon chips Escrow John K / BG EU 2 batch CLOSED + K16 from 40 EUR
September 16, 2013, 13:34:51
Reply with quote  #355
Code:
GB1,darkfriend77,32,2.72,1LJiC5hmBY7EWrWzfq3NUcsJj4J5HMYcT8,Refund

signed the msg above!

Code:
IKdMhPDUShUI3ELLcN8P2WBEk3/xxvqxeAo3CdGjWjVXIxaMtaT3QqjICFOT9yI3pH0lPAP89ycUZbB4at/I+Wg=

this a pretty lame tactic to even get the refund delayed more ... in the hope it gets shipped ... 
we allready had more then 50% of chip amounts from users of GB1 voting for a refund ... 
sad that your are acting  ... like that ... there where some good examples ... 
from zefir, sebastianJu & bizwoo ... how to organize ... a gb refund ... you show us that ... 
it can be done the otherway ... 

When are you going to pay what you owe Marto74?
Trust: -5: -3 / +4(4)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=217316.msg3487112#msg3487112

[sbogovac]

Good luck indeed... make sure you do investigate any fabricator before you use them and that goes DOUBLE for that one given the issues some people have had getting refunds and hardware at times.

Wasn't Marto the guy behind (or at least associated - on this forum - with) Technobit...?

[Bicknellski]

Good luck indeed... make sure you do investigate any fabricator before you use them and that goes DOUBLE for that one given the issues some people have had getting refunds and hardware at times.

Wasn't Marto the guy behind (or at least associated - on this forum - with) Technobit...?

Let us get back to the WPC stuff. Let Marto have his 12 threads.

[sbogovac]

Let us get back to the WPC stuff. Let Marto have his 12 threads.

Good point! Was only trying to help arkintunde out a bit...

As for WPC; you've been at it for almost half a year now, got a working miner yet?

[Bicknellski]

Let us get back to the WPC stuff. Let Marto have his 12 threads.

Good point! Was only trying to help arkintunde out a bit...

As for WPC; you've been at it for almost half a year now, got a working miner yet?

Nothing but a testing board that is being used by the lead EE. Looking at June as I posted above for the prototype for cooling in the Data Tank mock up at Allied Control.

Nothing goes out the door unless we are sure someone can build it and get the firmware running on it and hashing away. So we are focused on that right now. The only clock / calendar we are concerned with at this point is one that gets us a system that is working and can demonstrate the fact it can be reworked for the more powerful 28nm chips and cooled effectively so that the chips don't melt themselves off the PCB. Two stages before we get something to the end users. Feel free to PM me if you want a sneak peek at our next meeting that way you can find out where we are at.

[Beastlymac]

If we could keep this thread on topic please.

I am busy enough as it is with my offline life.

[btmtb]

Introductions
- New Shares on Sale

Is this to be an announcement of new shares available in the wild, or an availability to existing members? Will you be posting any details outside of the TS chat?

[Bicknellski]

Introductions
- New Shares on Sale

Is this to be an announcement of new shares available in the wild, or an availability to existing members? Will you be posting any details outside of the TS chat?

All shares always internal to the WPC members only. We have an interest in looking for angel investors possibly but they would have to discuss what level of commitment they have etc and see if the WPC plans for open source are of interest to them. Or possibly those looking to fab their own board then resell. The design we have won't be ready for that until later in the year. The current design we are working on is the prototype for the allied control datatank form factor below using Hammer Spondoolies chips, the other variants are still months away using the Minion or Rockerbox chips which would be viable as a commercial product in the 2-phase cooling market niche or the Hornet, a larger board which is an air cooled variant.



If you want to discuss it a bit more with me then drop me a PM with your email address.