Altcoin with a free minimum income for everyone

[TCraver]

Usually ideas of guaranteed income require a government to tax some to pay all. 

Does anyone else think it might be interesting to design a crypto-coin technology that implements a world-wide guaranteed income without reliance on government? 

The coin technology could allow each network participant to generate a number of coins weekly.   Every coin would be time-stamped, and exponentially decay in value (relative to a freshly created coin) at 2% weekly = ~2/3rds per year.  Coins would never fall to zero value, but the total value of coins in existence, per capita, should converge to equal the number of fresh coins created by each participant in one year.   This should discourage long term accumulation, encourage a high money velocity, and avoid significant long term inflation or deflation.   

Anyone who wishes to join the network to generate a stream of coins might have to accept a contractual obligation to willingly accept the coin in payment for any goods or services they wish to sell.  This would help build early acceptance of the coin, by requiring that users be as committed to accepting coin payments as they are to spending free coins.  This obligation represents each creator of coins backing their new coins by accepting an obligation - analogous to the way government fiat currency is often created by incurring an equal debt.


FRAUD: Everyone's first or second objection to this will be "what keeps me from creating coins under multiple fake identities, or faster than the approved rate"? 

Some ideas: 

- Networks of trust, where some vouch for others (and accept some responsibility for fraud by those others), creating peer pressure and fear that fraud will lead to withdrawal of vouching and thereby exclusion from the network of trust and the right to mint new coins.  So even if you don't care what your friends think of you, you might still care about getting caught and losing the stream of free money.

- First accounts - those into which coins are created - could be tied to the participant's name and address and maybe a photograph, making it easier to detect double dipping.  (Coins could be moved out of these to anonymous accounts via transactions.)  Don't like having that information public?  Don't join the coin creation network (or Facebook).

- For every coin created, a fractional of a coin might be created in a special account, to pay bounties to anyone catching someone breaking their coin network contract.  But how to verify such cases and translate that into payments?   Without getting government courts involved, if possible?

Discuss!

[TCraver]

I just realized that I may have inadvertently pointed to one answer - probably not the best - to the question of how to prevent double-dipping fraud:

Facebook.

Facebook is somewhat unique on the Web, in that it has a very good representation of individual identity.  It often knows you by your name, where you live, your age, who your friends are, what you look like, etc.  It has an identity model for each of it's clients.

Facebook could create a "FaceCoin" with minimum guaranteed income, and use it's insight into individual identity to try to block double dipping.
They also have plenty of ways for people to spend FaceCoin initially, to get it established before pushing it out as 'real' money.
By keeping it somewhat scarce, they could fairly easily encourage use of money exchanges that let people buy FaceCoin for dollars.
Once that is done, people will start to realize that FC has a 'real' value and can be used as a medium of exchange for other purposes.

Of course, as the value of FaceCoin increased Facebook would encounter issues of tying their identity models to the actual person identified. 
- Theft of existing accounts.   
- Creating accounts using personal information of other people that are not yet on Facebook. 
- Etc. 
But those appear to be resolvable within Facebook's existing business model - that is, Facebook gets a profit from advertising that can cover the costs of connecting actual identity to their identity model.

I'm not sure I would want to advocate that solution - it puts one company too much in the driver's seat. 

OTOH, fears of Facebook holding a monopoly on this kind of money would motivate others to try creating viable alternatives...

[unip]

Hi,

I am very interested in your ideas, I wrote something related, Reset-coin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427306.0

the approach is different, but the aim in the same, how to guarantee a mínimum wealth to every human being and equal starting conditions to everybody. And even how to correct too big differences between rich and poor in the future. The idea of a reset function, could look too radical, but it is just an starting point of discussion.

Like you said, the key point is some kind of "proof-of-human-work", I have some ideas about that i hope to write on a next Update on Reset-coin post.

Hope to know you feed-back.

[nobodysbusiness]

The idea of a guaranteed income for everyone is a good one, but a cryptocurrency can't guarantee that. There would have to be some sort of real-world agency that verifies people's identity and ensures that only one wallet is given to each unique individual. As soon as major money is involved in this universal income scheme, Facebook wouldn't cut it anymore.

[princecash]

This idea could be useful especially for us that are newbie.

[Hazard]

Just name it CommunismCoin and call it a day.

[extro24]

Freicoin?

[Alohaboy?!]

Just name it CommunismCoin and call it a day.

good one ^^

[TCraver]

Just name it CommunismCoin and call it a day.

good one ^^

Amusing - and somewhat on target in the original sense of communal-ism, though of course not on target in the modern sense of "corrupt government using communal-ist ideology to justify malignant oppression".   

A guaranteed minimum income free altcoin (Free as in liberty; free as in 'not imposed by government' - but also 'free beer' if that is how you choose to spend it) would not be intended to make outcomes equal - but rather to create opportunities for those who started at or have fallen into extreme poverty, to survive and better themselves in a free market.

[TCraver]

Hi,

I am very interested in your ideas, I wrote something related, Reset-coin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427306.0
....
Like you said, the key point is some kind of "proof-of-human-work", I have some ideas about that i hope to write on a next Update on Reset-coin post.

Unip:  I read over your idea.  I think it is almost the same as what I've suggested, but I do prefer my continuous decay proposal, as it eliminates the fear of getting caught at reset holding cash, and compensates everyone somewhat for any cash they do keep on hand by giving them fresh coins.

And I see that you run up against the same issue - how to establish one-person-one-account.  That makes me think that maybe we are still thinking about this a bit too much from the conventional economics way of thinking.  Something someone else has posted about somehow making it like crowd-funding feels like it might somehow be the key to thinking about this in a way that avoids the "true names" (unique identity) problem.   That and something about "gift economies".   But I haven't been able to put my finger on it...

[unip]

I just saw this:

http://www.coindesk.com/heartwave-sensing-wristband-doubles-bitcoin-wallet/

Perhaps it can be the personal identity system that we are lookin for, TCraver?

[larem]

The idea of a guaranteed income for everyone is a good one, but a cryptocurrency can't guarantee that. There would have to be some sort of real-world agency that verifies people's identity and ensures that only one wallet is given to each unique individual. As soon as major money is involved in this universal income scheme, Facebook wouldn't cut it anymore.

Not only this, but bringing in a new agency would deplete the purpose of being decentralized.

[thedarklight]

Usually ideas of guaranteed income require a government to tax some to pay all. 

Does anyone else think it might be interesting to design a crypto-coin technology that implements a world-wide guaranteed income without reliance on government? 

The coin technology could allow each network participant to generate a number of coins weekly.   Every coin would be time-stamped, and exponentially decay in value (relative to a freshly created coin) at 2% weekly = ~2/3rds per year.  Coins would never fall to zero value, but the total value of coins in existence, per capita, should converge to equal the number of fresh coins created by each participant in one year.   This should discourage long term accumulation, encourage a high money velocity, and avoid significant long term inflation or deflation.   

Anyone who wishes to join the network to generate a stream of coins might have to accept a contractual obligation to willingly accept the coin in payment for any goods or services they wish to sell.  This would help build early acceptance of the coin, by requiring that users be as committed to accepting coin payments as they are to spending free coins.  This obligation represents each creator of coins backing their new coins by accepting an obligation - analogous to the way government fiat currency is often created by incurring an equal debt.


FRAUD: Everyone's first or second objection to this will be "what keeps me from creating coins under multiple fake identities, or faster than the approved rate"? 

Some ideas: 

- Networks of trust, where some vouch for others (and accept some responsibility for fraud by those others), creating peer pressure and fear that fraud will lead to withdrawal of vouching and thereby exclusion from the network of trust and the right to mint new coins.  So even if you don't care what your friends think of you, you might still care about getting caught and losing the stream of free money.

- First accounts - those into which coins are created - could be tied to the participant's name and address and maybe a photograph, making it easier to detect double dipping.  (Coins could be moved out of these to anonymous accounts via transactions.)  Don't like having that information public?  Don't join the coin creation network (or Facebook).

- For every coin created, a fractional of a coin might be created in a special account, to pay bounties to anyone catching someone breaking their coin network contract.  But how to verify such cases and translate that into payments?   Without getting government courts involved, if possible?

Discuss!

Have a look at my white paper on the subject http://darkai.org/?page_id=41
http://darkai.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Resilience-Project-Whitepaper-Draft-3.pdf

If you like what you see lets make a new thread to discuss and peer review it.

[thedarklight]

Hi,

I am very interested in your ideas, I wrote something related, Reset-coin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427306.0

the approach is different, but the aim in the same, how to guarantee a mínimum wealth to every human being and equal starting conditions to everybody. And even how to correct too big differences between rich and poor in the future. The idea of a reset function, could look too radical, but it is just an starting point of discussion.

Like you said, the key point is some kind of "proof-of-human-work", I have some ideas about that i hope to write on a next Update on Reset-coin post.

Hope to know you feed-back.

Choose or be chosen. Every human being should have the option to choose to join a virtual community, or a virtual sovereign nation. The model to use would be micro nations where you must register to receive citizenship and then you can get the dividend.

Another model to use are communities which do the choosing. In that case they would background check you to make sure you are an honest person and if you pass the checks you can join the community. This would keep scammers and bad actors out of certain communities as some more exclusive communities will not want to support them.

A citizen of a virtual community would have voting rights and there would be a distributed Constitution of some sort which everyone in the community has found some way to agree upon. This way you would be able to join a community of like minded people and receive your basic income dividend from your community, your micro nation, your virtual sovereign entity. No one would force their values on you because you'd join the community of people who share your values.

[sharpshooter]

The gist of crypto currency is to remain anonymous. Tying coins or accounts to people's name and addresses? I don't see this going far sorry.

[anti-scam]

Hi,

I am very interested in your ideas, I wrote something related, Reset-coin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427306.0

the approach is different, but the aim in the same, how to guarantee a mínimum wealth to every human being and equal starting conditions to everybody. And even how to correct too big differences between rich and poor in the future. The idea of a reset function, could look too radical, but it is just an starting point of discussion.

Like you said, the key point is some kind of "proof-of-human-work", I have some ideas about that i hope to write on a next Update on Reset-coin post.

Hope to know you feed-back.

Choose or be chosen. Every human being should have the option to choose to join a virtual community, or a virtual sovereign nation. The model to use would be micro nations where you must register to receive citizenship and then you can get the dividend.

Another model to use are communities which do the choosing. In that case they would background check you to make sure you are an honest person and if you pass the checks you can join the community. This would keep scammers and bad actors out of certain communities as some more exclusive communities will not want to support them.

A citizen of a virtual community would have voting rights and there would be a distributed Constitution of some sort which everyone in the community has found some way to agree upon. This way you would be able to join a community of like minded people and receive your basic income dividend from your community, your micro nation, your virtual sovereign entity. No one would force their values on you because you'd join the community of people who share your values.

It sounds like you've discovered the concept of a cryptostate. There's a link to a thread about it in my signature if you'd like to discuss the concept more thoroughly.

[thedarklight]

The gist of crypto currency is to remain anonymous. Tying coins or accounts to people's name and addresses? I don't see this going far sorry.

You don't have the exclusive right to determine the gist of a technology.

That is like saying the Internet was invented for only for a specific purpose, just so that college students and hackers can have access to confidential information. You are saying that everyone else must conform to the wishes and needs of others. Cryptocurrency is about far more than just anonymity, and you're missing out on the truly disruptive aspects.

Once a technology is invented then it becomes a tool which anyone can make use of. The option will exist for people who want to form or join a community. To have a community you must have an identity and while you can be pseudo-anonymous you must prove  that you are in fact a human individual if you expect to be able to vote and have citizenship.

Anonymity and citizenship don't mesh well together. While you can have a virtual community you still need to register to vote. You still need a reputation which must be reviewed. For the purpose of basic income you must join the community and if the community is willing to give you the dividend anonymously that is their option but I doubt most communities will do that.

It's also human nature to form communities. So it is both an economic necessity and human nature that people join groups of like minded people.

If you want a completely anonymous cryptocurrency there will be plenty of coins for that. If you want a basic income dividend, join a decentralized autonomous community. If you're given citizenship then you will have dividend paying shares which will provide you a basic income for life provided that your citizenship isn't revoked.

And of course there will be some communities which will be more open than others and which will accept anybody. This model is better than charity because it does not ask anyone to make donations. It's better than taxing people to pay for it because no one has to lose anything for other people to gain something.

It works by giving everyone in the community a share in the capital assets the community holds. It's like a virtual sovereign wealth fund. As a member you get a stream of dividends to your addresses but you cannot join without being backround checked because if the community does not filter it could be over run by criminals, or just infiltrated and destroyed by black flag.

[anti-scam]

The gist of crypto currency is to remain anonymous. Tying coins or accounts to people's name and addresses? I don't see this going far sorry.

You don't have the exclusive right to determine the gist of a technology.

That is like saying the Internet was invented for only for a specific purpose, just so that college students and hackers can have access to confidential information. You are saying that everyone else must conform to the wishes and needs of others. Cryptocurrency is about far more than just anonymity, and you're missing out on the truly disruptive aspects.

Once a technology is invented then it becomes a tool which anyone can make use of. The option will exist for people who want to form or join a community. To have a community you must have an identity and while you can be pseudo-anonymous you must prove  that you are in fact a human individual if you expect to be able to vote and have citizenship.

Anonymity and citizenship don't mesh well together. While you can have a virtual community you still need to register to vote. You still need a reputation which must be reviewed. For the purpose of basic income you must join the community and if the community is willing to give you the dividend anonymously that is their option but I doubt most communities will do that.

It's also human nature to form communities. So it is both an economic necessity and human nature that people join groups of like minded people.

If you want a completely anonymous cryptocurrency there will be plenty of coins for that. If you want a basic income dividend, join a decentralized autonomous community. If you're given citizenship then you will have dividend paying shares which will provide you a basic income for life provided that your citizenship isn't revoked.

And of course there will be some communities which will be more open than others and which will accept anybody. This model is better than charity because it does not ask anyone to make donations. It's better than taxing people to pay for it because no one has to lose anything for other people to gain something.

It works by giving everyone in the community a share in the capital assets the community holds. It's like a virtual sovereign wealth fund. As a member you get a stream of dividends to your addresses but you cannot join without being backround checked because if the community does not filter it could be over run by criminals, or just infiltrated and destroyed by black flag.

You could easily have this and anonymity still with stuff like zero-knowledge proofs of whatever, CoinJoin, or Zerocoin. The real question is still how you verify individuals in a decentralized manner.

[wtman]

This idea has been out for a while

If this idea is implemented by a country's government, it will work in conjunction with the country's ID system.

The value of coins mined daily will be equal to the daily minimum wage. There is no need to waste electricity for mining in that case. Once can only mine a fixed amount which is equal to minimum wage.

The idea is not perfect and needs more refining, obviously.

[lusitano99]

hello i have a ATI Radeon HD5970 com 256 ram, do you think that its good to mine dogecoins? or outher crypto? does anyone have thios board? what speed can i get?