2014 Record breaking 30 minute volume to drive Bitcoin from $820 to just $836

[MatTheCat]

That was a record breaking volume required to devour a massive Ask wall that had accumulated at the $820 range.

I doubt for a second that this surge in volume, 900 BTC worth of it occurring in one fell strike, the majority of the rest of it hitting within two seperate 1 minute candles, was the result of irrepressible mass public appetite for $820 Bitcoin.

I will concede that I don't know what the fuck is happening here but it reeks of fish.

A 1500 strong Ask wall (on Bitstamp) should not be getting devoured in these conditions, with so much uncertainty surrounding Bitcoin just around the corner, but it was. So this is surely a bullish signal? That was around 3 million worth of USD trade done at these prices. That was some serious money getting into the game, wasn't it not?

........Or was it just a syndicate of whales playing pass the parcel with a big bunch of Bitcoins?

I would like to have a track record of the accounts operating on the exchanges during these crucial, crunch, and entirely unexpected and unpredictable turns of trading momentum. I guess this is why this stuff must be made public domain on real exchanges, in order to give market participants a clearer view if what is going on behind the trades.

There are powerful forces at work that are determined to keep Bitcoin upheld during this time and I have decided that it isn't wise to bet against them and am fortunate enough to be getting out almost breaking even in doing so. I won't be betting with them either as they have an 'enemy' in the far east that although perhaps not powerful enough to bring them down completely, is certainly powerful enough to tear lumps out of them.

I used to have an ideological view of Bitcoin and was actually amongst the 'early adopters' or users rather, but unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past and I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset that will invariably either be killed off, or end up being cornered and controlled by the usual suspects. Freedom it aint going to be, quite the opposite infact.

Because of the aforementioned 'Yellow Peril' that powerful USD based entities are moving to protect Bitcoin against, I think the wisest thing for any Johnny come lately investor to do is sit back and wait. The whales are making great efforts to hold Bitcoin at this level, but the dragon has not even started to breath its fire down on Bitcoin, yet.

[1715675425]

1715675425

[Ducky1]

Do you ever read any news MatTheCat, or are you only staring at MACD's?

[FierceRadish]

...unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past...

...I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset...

Correlation?

[ElectricMucus]

Don't try to move the market you idiots, try not to...

[daemaethor]

the wisest thing for any Johnny come lately investor to do HODL and wait.

Oh I'm bitter myself but i realized there is no way to fight the market. Just hodl and wait 2-3yrs.
Better buy now than later.

[coinpharmer]

...unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past...

...I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset...

Correlation?

hahaha i just asked him in another thread what his problems is always thinking the shit will hit the fan. know i know he was a early adopting spender with very weak hands, who fears this vapour asset would not be worth >10, was very wrong, and is now bitter.

your totally right mat, its all those bots, man, and china, and war, bro. fuck war. we need some flowers and coolaid bitcoin

[MatTheCat]

Do you ever read any news MatTheCat, or are you only staring at MACD's?

It is all very well viewing news articles with hindsight and saying Bitcoin up on X news or Bitcoin down on Y news, but it is all bullshit, most of the time anyways.

I have been watching these charts like a hawk and know for a fact that at least the trades that have either protected Bitcoin, or caused it to surge in recent times, were complete anomalies. Such as 3 Million USD worth of trade occurring within 5 minutes and devouring massive Ask walls.

I also watched the weekend correction and witnessed how the USD exchanges absolutely refused to budge as Huobi dived and dived, until enough was perhaps enough for the Joe Bloggs investors who then started to dump. I then witnessed a massive buy order come in on Stamp and save the day as Bitcoin looked all but certain to go smashing through its support level after the dead cat bounce.

This is not a real market. This is a controlled market that went ballistic due to the combination of a surge in interest from China and a limited supply of coins due to whales hoarding. 'Satoshi' himself owns 12% of all Bitcoins in existence. Whether he is a greedy man or not, he or they already have an unimaginable amount of nominal wealth, more than they could ever possibly need. That is someone or some group with over 1 million Bitcoins at hand to nurse the wounds and support the meteoric rise of Bitcoin. Now however that public interest in Bitcoin investment has waned, or indeed has turned full circle with a big load of Chinese coins possibly due to hit the exchanges, it will be interesting to see how the fairy godmother whales, hold up against the onslaught. Whatever the outcome, I won't be losing a penny in the battle. I am totally out for now. Will take another look when the China thing comes to a head.

[Holliday]

Don't try to move the market you idiots, try not to...

Here I am, agreeing with EM, yet again!

[MatTheCat]

...unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past...

...I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset...

Correlation?

On the contrary.

Back then, I viewed Bitcoin with much ideological 'fight the banksters' esteem and I always intended to hold onto a pile of Bitcoins just to 'support' the cause. But the problem was that me n my mates are Silk Road regulars. And for that we needed to spend Bitcoins.....and then Intersango got effectively closed down leaving no easy way (that we knew about) to get hold of coins for the Road....so the stash got depleted. I don't delude myself for a minute though that I might otherwise have been a Bitcoin millionaire as I know very well that as soon as I seen that I had multiplied my money by three or four times, I would have creamed my pants and cashed out.

The only way I could be a Bitcoin millionaire today, would be if I fell into a coma sometime in 2012, and came out of it in late November 2013.

[Holliday]

I don't delude myself for a minute though that I might otherwise have been a Bitcoin millionaire as I know very well that as soon as I seen that I had multiplied my money by three or four times, I would have creamed my pants and cashed out.

The only way I could be a Bitcoin millionaire today, would be if I fell into a coma sometime in 2012, and came out of it in late November 2013.

Don't worry. I'm sure "luck" would have prevailed.

[threecats]

I saw those buys, two of them, one at about 450, the other around 500.

My feeling is that they were unconnected with the continuous pump and dumps and price supporting we seem to have been seeing of late. There was no manuvering on either side of the 2 buys that seem connected.

I think it was fresh money choosing a wise entry point. NY hearing this week, ZipZap in England, Wells Fargo, etc plus China boogieman losing strength.

[shmadz]

<snip>
 Whatever the outcome, I won't be losing a penny in the battle. I am totally out for now. Will take another look when the China thing comes to a head.

Yet again we are of the same mind, yet polar opposites of opinion. We have (now) both left the market for the time being. I've taken my bitcoin and gone home, you've got your dollars. One of us will be right. I honestly hope you are right and we will have more time to buy more coins, but I fear that you might be wrong.

I suspect that it is our hopes and fears that are at polar opposites - or rather - our assessment of risk.

I have trouble sleeping at night when I have bitcoin at risk. If I lose bitcoin, it might be prohibitively expensive for me to get them back, I might never get them back.

If I lose dollars, yeah, it might suck a bit, but I knew I could lose them all at any time when I put them on the exchange, and it's easy to get dollars.

I know I can't change your mind, but there are more than 75 billion dollars being printed per month from QE alone. There are less than 150 thousand* bitcoin created in that same time period.


*should be closer to 110 thousand, but due to the rising difficulty I used 8 blocks per hour instead of 6

[MatTheCat]

I saw those buys, two of them, one at about 450, the other around 500.

My feeling is that they were unconnected with the continuous pump and dumps and price supporting we seem to have been seeing of late. There was no manuvering on either side of the 2 buys that seem connected.

I think it was fresh money choosing a wise entry point. NY hearing this week, ZipZap in England, Wells Fargo, etc plus China boogieman losing strength.

We will see in the weeks to come or even days to come whether they were indeed 'wise' investments or whether that was  a serious amount of dumb money or simply whale manipulation. With a complete lack of transparency on who is behind Bitcoin trades it will be impossible to distinguish for sure between these trades (and many more like them) being dumb money or whale manipulation, but I would suggest that there are a severe lack of dumb cunts operating in these markets with enough clout to make million dollar BTC trades.

I know I can't change your mind, but there are more than 75 billion dollars being printed per month from QE alone. There are less than 150 thousand* bitcoin created in that same time period.

The USD has the greatest military might the world has ever seen behind it. Bitcoin has a handful of zealous whales, who may be able to hold the price up a bit, but can do nothing to prevent Bitcoin being regulated out of clear market operations. If the day comes when I can reliably pay for goods and services at a price fixed in Bitcoins, then I will concern myself with what my Bitcoin balance is rather than what my Bitcoins are worth in relation to USD or GBP.....

.....until then, Bitcoins are just an ultra high risk vapour asset that may or may not progress to offer up multitudes of upside to long term holders.

[threecats]

That's my  point. I don't think they were dumb.They are placing a bet, Sunday night before the NY hearings, market at 820. 

[windjc]

Mat you are constantly bitching about unseen market players hurting your stash. None of its true. You are just stupid for trading in a time of consolidation. You are too greedy and it's biting you in the ass. Take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming others. It's no ones fault but your own.

[proudhon]

That was a record breaking volume required to devour a massive Ask wall that had accumulated at the $820 range.

I doubt for a second that this surge in volume, 900 BTC worth of it occurring in one fell strike, the majority of the rest of it hitting within two seperate 1 minute candles, was the result of irrepressible mass public appetite for $820 Bitcoin.

I will concede that I don't know what the fuck is happening here but it reeks of fish.

A 1500 strong Ask wall (on Bitstamp) should not be getting devoured in these conditions, with so much uncertainty surrounding Bitcoin just around the corner, but it was. So this is surely a bullish signal? That was around 3 million worth of USD trade done at these prices. That was some serious money getting into the game, wasn't it not?

........Or was it just a syndicate of whales playing pass the parcel with a big bunch of Bitcoins?

I would like to have a track record of the accounts operating on the exchanges during these crucial, crunch, and entirely unexpected and unpredictable turns of trading momentum. I guess this is why this stuff must be made public domain on real exchanges, in order to give market participants a clearer view if what is going on behind the trades.

There are powerful forces at work that are determined to keep Bitcoin upheld during this time and I have decided that it isn't wise to bet against them and am fortunate enough to be getting out almost breaking even in doing so. I won't be betting with them either as they have an 'enemy' in the far east that although perhaps not powerful enough to bring them down completely, is certainly powerful enough to tear lumps out of them.

I used to have an ideological view of Bitcoin and was actually amongst the 'early adopters' or users rather, but unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past and I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset that will invariably either be killed off, or end up being cornered and controlled by the usual suspects. Freedom it aint going to be, quite the opposite infact.

Because of the aforementioned 'Yellow Peril' that powerful USD based entities are moving to protect Bitcoin against, I think the wisest thing for any Johnny come lately investor to do is sit back and wait. The whales are making great efforts to hold Bitcoin at this level, but the dragon has not even started to breath its fire down on Bitcoin, yet.

I haven't read all of your words, because you're words are already confirmed and therefore true.  To summarize, I don't know what you're saying, but I do see that as we speak bitcoin is crashing back down.  So, in short, SHOTR!

[MatTheCat]

That's my  point. I don't think they were dumb.They are placing a bet, Sunday night before the NY hearings, market at 820. 

U reckon a huge bet placed, possibly with insider info on how the NY hearings are going to go?

U are making my fingers twitch over the all-in long button here!

[Ibian]

What do you get out of these threads?

[proudhon]

That's my  point. I don't think they were dumb.They are placing a bet, Sunday night before the NY hearings, market at 820. 

U reckon a huge bet placed, possibly with insider info on how the NY hearings are going to go?

U are making my fingers twitch over the all-in long button here!

Don't fall for these false tricks, Mat.  You have read the news and looked at the technical analysis from the best and most confirmed sources, and it should be clear to you that bitcoin has failed, and that the market will collapse, thus making SHOTRs very wealthy and the only sensible position.  Martingale maxleverage SHOTRs will prevail!

[seleme]

Mat, you're buttheart mate, I'd be too on your place to be honest.

But you were stupid three times..  F

irst being ideological about Bitcoin - fuck that, make money from it.

Second for not keeping your cheap coins, what a mistake, one that has to make you bitter.

And third for letting your bitterness influencing your current Bitcoin views and day trading. That one is the biggest, people that let themselves to get emotional and stubborn about market as you were in last few days, don't stand lot of chance.

You have to be ready for both sides of the market, and not exclude any of it. But on the end, after all that Bitcoin has done, being bull is always a better option and one should never go to be so much bear to sell all of his coins.

[MatTheCat]

You have to be ready for both sides of the market, and not exclude any of it. But on the end, after all that Bitcoin has done, being bull is always a better option and one should never go to be so much bear to sell all of his coins.

I am not butthurt. I have broken even overall after my little foray into Shorting on Bitfinex....but that is a whole lot of sweat and one sleepless night babysitting my one big successful short on the night of the Huobi plunge......for practically fuck all!

All I am trying to do is align myself with the right side of the trade. That is easy when the dice is loaded in Bitcoins favour. Not so easy right now when there are such market battles going on. One of my big mistakes is getting emotionally involved in bitch fights with posters on this forum. When I am hoping that Bitcoin goes a certain way to get one over some username on this forum, I know that my judgement is going to be clouded, but I persevere and make trades all the same. I first found myself coming into direct conflict with the mainstream of opinion on here when I stated that I was selling $1100 bitcoins in the $1000 range to cut my losses. I was pilloried all over the place but had I 'held', where would I be now? Seriously under fkn water is where.

It really pisses me off that there guys who picked up hundreds or thousands of Bitcoins in sub $10 days, who attack and ridicule any newcomer who is a bit concerned that their investment may be liable for taking a tanking.


P.S. I used to be ideological about Bitcoin, but that is no longer possible because I can't allow myself to be that naive.

[seleme]

You're not newcomer, you had your 10$ coins, that's still 1400% cheaper than first coins I ever bought. The only difference is that I haven't cashed out mine but traded them to many more and trade them all the time with only one thing on my mind - to make more coins, that will cover any eventual price drop so I couldn't care less about price unlessit goes to 100$ or your old 10s and that most probably won't ever happen.

And yeah, of course you are butthurt, I can remember times when I was exactly like that, when I got pissed up being bear when old guys were laughing at us. Smoothie was first member here I ignored as he was laughing at people harder than anyone else.

Yes, old guys can be bastards sometimes but after 10 months of this game I can see why.. there are lot of noobs who came here week, two or three ago that think they are suited to teach lessons people who are here for years, and who are way, way, way more experienced and have way, way, way more knowledge about anything Bitcoin. These noobs go on my nerves too, not for being in position where they want to buy cheap coins and enter the game, I perfectly understand and respect that, they go on my nerves because they know fuck all about Bitcoin, have zero experience with it's price movements, it's rise, and all that would again be perfectly understandable if they're not acting as smartarses trying to teach me and other lessons here. Me who almost forgot on my crypto net value after Worldcoins I bought for my whole btc worth of 34 BTC in July went to be worth 6 BTC in September, or others who were here when BTC was worth pennies and lived and survived through 100s of rises and falls.

Look at that bitcoinlitcoinbtcltc guy who just opened a thread about Bitcoin downfall, it is extremely tempting to not make him acknowledge he is idiot.

You're not a noob but you often act like that, going out talking talking about price movements with such certainty like you came from the future this morning. That sounds stupid, makes you to look like twat and brings aggressive response too, it's normal.

There's no certainty in crypto world. Except that it will make me millionaire in this year, of course

[MatTheCat]

You're not newcomer, you had your 10$ coins, that's still 1400% cheaper than first coins I ever bought. The only difference is that I haven't cashed out mine but traded them to many more and trade them all the time with only one thing on my mind - to make more coins, that will cover any eventual price drop so I couldn't care less about price unlessit goes to 100$ or your old 10s and that most probably won't ever happen.

I am a newcomer.

I primarily got into Bitcoins and used them for their intended purpose (making payments for real goods) as opposed to hoarding them and waiting on others to pile into the pyramid and push me up it.

I only started to speculate in Bitcoin from November onwards, after having stomached enough of watching something which I have bought and spent hundreds off, rise, rise, and then rise a magniude of order more. As for my predictions of price direction, I am not always right, but I have been more right than I have been wrong. Even my go long at $790, cash out at $815 and then short Bitcoin could have been a nice little earner if I hadn't got too addicted to my bearish stance. Arguing with tossers on this forum (who had I listened to in the past, would see me seriously underwater on Bitcoin until this very day), has this stance addiction effect on me and I need to cut it out. I now appreciate that there are massive movers in the Bitcoin pond that can send the price crashing down or surging up regardless of how the market looks on paper, making any kind of TA or volume or chart analysis completely futile, but hey, it's a learning process.

Long term, with all the seedlings of retail adoption and such, Bitcoin has to have a bright future on front of it. But how does that translate into price in the near term when we have this looming China exit to deal with, and massive rise in Bitcoin price based largely on the restriction of Bitcoin supply in the face of a China bitcoin boom. I dont want to own $800 dollar Bitcoins if I so much as ever glimpse a $400 price tag on Bitstamp. Most people would tell me that this was not possible but I can remember all the 'Bitcoin will never go below $1000 again' bullshit from little over 1 month ago.

With Bitcoin, anything is possible. Anything.

[aminorex]

AAARRRGGGHHH "looming china exit" again.  WTF does that MEAN?

[ampere9765]

hmm, well, if people were not under the impression that even direct bank transfer was being cut off (if that is truly the case -- still does not seem confirmed, but those tweets from the conference were unnerving), that changes the picture.

[MatTheCat]

AAARRRGGGHHH "looming china exit" again.  WTF does that MEAN?

A big pile of coins in Chinese hands suddenly becoming like monopoly money going to any trader who can get them a scrap of value for them?

I don't know why the Chinese are still trading them up and down or why Huobi still accounts for 70% of daily Bitcoin trading (yeah, I know there are 0% trading fees but this is still ridiculous), but look what happened when Huobi started to sell off at the weekend. For the first 60 minutes, nothing happened on Bitstamp. Shows how well the price moulding bots can do their job, but eventually, price on Bitstamp started to slip. If China's exit is irrelevant to USD Bitcoin, why did all the USD exchanges start to crash? Perhaps the Joe Bloggs traders were all looking nervously across thinking "this is it, here comes the big one, RUNNNNNNAWAY!"?

You do realise that one day very soon, Huobi is going to trade down to 0 don't you, and then it isn't going to exist. Bullish or bearish?

[proudhon]

AAARRRGGGHHH "looming china exit" again.  WTF does that MEAN?

A big pile of coins in Chinese hands suddenly becoming like monopoly money going to any trader who can get them a scrap of value for them?

I don't know why the Chinese are still trading them up and down or why Huobi still accounts for 70% of daily Bitcoin trading (yeah, I know there are 0% trading fees but this is still ridiculous), but look what happened when Huobi started to sell off at the weekend. For the first 60 minutes, nothing happened on Bitstamp. Shows how well the price upholding bots can do their job, but eventually, price on Bitstamp started to slip. If China's exit is irrelevant to USD Bitcoin, why did all the USD exchanges start to crash? Perhaps the Joe Bloggs traders were all looking nervously across thinking "this is it, here comes the big one, RUNNNNNNAWAY!"?

You do realise that one day very soon, Huobi is going to trade down to 0 don't you, and then it isn't going to exist. Bullish or bearish

Confirmed

[ampere9765]

what % of coins trading on Huobi would actually make be dumped on the market or routed to Western exchanges? but really, even with a good estimate on that (maybe based on the first China bad news drop in December), no idea how many coins are really on these exchanges at this point (like Huobi, Okcoin). could be much less than volume signifies b/c of 0% trade fees and manipulated reported volume (a la Okcoin).

[aminorex]

AAARRRGGGHHH "looming china exit" again.  WTF does that MEAN?

A big pile of coins in Chinese hands suddenly becoming like monopoly money going to any trader who can get them a scrap of value for them?
...
You do realise that one day very soon, Huobi is going to trade down to 0 don't you, and then it isn't going to exist. Bullish or bearish?

It will not trade to zero.  That's silly.  It may cease to exist, which would be very bullish.

You make at least two major assumptions which I think are misleading you.

Firstly, that there is a big pile of coins on the Chinese exchanges.  How many coins do you think there are?
Surely if you believe there is a big pile of coins there, you must be able to estimate how big.  Where is this data coming from?

Secondly, that the mean bitcoin trader will attempt to exit into RMB.  If you knew that you would never be able to buy another bitcoin again on an exchange, what would you do with all of the fiat on the exchange, before the cut off?   I know what I would do:  I would get all the bitcoin that I could, and move it to a cold wallet.  I don't think either of us have enough information on the btc demographics to come to a strong conclusion about which side will predominate in an exchange closure, but I suspect that the largest number of coins are being bought in order to evade capital controls, and that means the fiat goes into coin, which is portable, unlike RMB.

[MatTheCat]

what % of coins trading on Huobi would actually make be dumped on the market or routed to Western exchanges? but really, even with a good estimate on that (maybe based on the first China bad news drop in December), no idea how many coins are really on these exchanges at this point (like Huobi, Okcoin). could be much less than volume signifies b/c of 0% trade fees and manipulated reported volume (a la Okcoin).

Far far less than the volume indicates but still a very significant amount. It is rational to think that many of these Bitcoins won't be traded at all, but simply held by Chinese holding out for a longer term opportunity to put them to use. On the otherhand, it would be idiotic to think that a certain amount of them won't end up hitting the markets via Chinese black market traders with links to Western currency markets who can deliver the isolated Chinese Bitcoin holders some yuan for their 'defunct' coins. Indeed, I have noticed Chinese Yuan connected traders appear on UK localbitcoins offering very competitive rates. This is eye-brow raising, because the CNY is a notorioulsy ring-fenced currency so this is not the same as trader dealing in Euro and GBP or the Rupee and GBP.

If Huobi/China was irrelevant to USD Bitcoin valuation, then the USD exchanges wouldn't have budged an inch as Huobi plunged, but the panic overwhelmed the price moulding trading algorithms on the exchanges, and plunge we did.

[aminorex]

If Huobi/China was irrelevant to USD Bitcoin valuation, then the USD exchanges wouldn't have budged an inch as Huobi plunged, but the panic overwhelmed the price moulding trading algorithms on the exchanges, and plunge we did.

Huobi is considerably more relevant than is Mt.Gox.  At least Huobi can be arb'ed to the real exchanges.  But that arb is like a very thin rubber band.  If it is stretched too far, it will snap, and the price of Huobi will decorrelate to the real exchanges, just like Mt. Gox.

[mgburks77]

...unfortunately for me I never held onto any of the hundreds of sub $10 Bitcoins that I have bought in the past...

...I now view Bitcoin as a nasty pernicious vapour asset...

Correlation?

On the contrary.

Back then, I viewed Bitcoin with much ideological 'fight the banksters' esteem and I always intended to hold onto a pile of Bitcoins just to 'support' the cause. But the problem was that me n my mates are Silk Road regulars. And for that we needed to spend Bitcoins.....and then Intersango got effectively closed down leaving no easy way (that we knew about) to get hold of coins for the Road....so the stash got depleted. I don't delude myself for a minute though that I might otherwise have been a Bitcoin millionaire as I know very well that as soon as I seen that I had multiplied my money by three or four times, I would have creamed my pants and cashed out.

The only way I could be a Bitcoin millionaire today, would be if I fell into a coma sometime in 2012, and came out of it in late November 2013.

say no to drugs kids, or this will be you

lol

[aminorex]

say no to drugs kids, or this will be you

On the other hand, in the 8 years since I started taking amphetamines, my salary has increased by a factor of 4. Each individual has unique talents and unique needs.

[pungopete468]

say no to drugs kids, or this will be you

On the other hand, in the 8 years since I started taking amphetamines, my salary has increased by a factor of 4. Each individual has unique talents and unique needs.

Adderall makes you feel like the main character in Limitless.

[MatTheCat]

That was a record breaking volume required to devour a massive Ask wall that had accumulated at the $820 range.

I doubt for a second that this surge in volume, 900 BTC worth of it occurring in one fell strike, the majority of the rest of it hitting within two seperate 1 minute candles, was the result of irrepressible mass public appetite for $820 Bitcoin.

I will concede that I don't know what the fuck is happening here but it reeks of fish.

Here is what the fuck was happening:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg4778423#msg4778423