CEO OF BITCOIN EXCHANGE ARRESTED

[leopard2]

isn't money laundering if you turn black money into white?

Shrem turned white money into a different form of white money which was then turned black

only if the SR illegal sellers would hand over their black BTC to someone, to turn them into cash, knowing it is black BTC, that would be money laundering imho

[1714924630]

1714924630

[1714924630]

1714924630

[HELP.org]

isn't money laundering if you turn black money into white?

Shrem turned white money into a different form of white money which was then turned black

only if the SR illegal sellers would hand over their black BTC to someone, to turn them into cash, knowing it is black BTC, that would be money laundering imho

Money laundering means you don't properly report transactions.  Conspiracy is when you work with someone to do that whether or not you actually perform the act yourself.  Of course it is all accusations at this point.

[cryptoanarchist]

isn't money laundering if you turn black money into white?

Shrem turned white money into a different form of white money which was then turned black

only if the SR illegal sellers would hand over their black BTC to someone, to turn them into cash, knowing it is black BTC, that would be money laundering imho

This is obvious and why the prosecutor is either completely retarded or just a lying sack of shit - most likely he's both.

[BCB]

Money Laundering is when you try to hide the origins of funds though:

Placement - the initial entry of the "dirty" cash or proceeds of crime into the financial system.

Layering - attempt to separate illicit funds from its source.

Integration -  the money is returned to the launderer from what seem to be legitimate sources.

[coh3sion]

Someone actually came up to me and asked me if I heard about "the CEO of Bitcoin" being arrested  lol

[2Kool4Skewl]

Someone actually came up to me and asked me if I heard about "the CEO of Bitcoin" being arrested  lol

hahahahaha 

[BCB]

Someone actually came up to me and asked me if I heard about "the CEO of Bitcoin" being arrested   lol

I have heard this reported on more then a few occasions.  Just goes to show you how much education we have left to do.  Unfortunately anyone born before 1964 is not going to GET it unless they want to understand.  They have the capability, most just don't have these desire.  And that is who we find in power currently.  

It will take another generation to come into power before we will be able to fully realize the full potential of this technology.

I'd say 10 years at the soonest and more likely 20 year for full integration.

[HELP.org]

Someone actually came up to me and asked me if I heard about "the CEO of Bitcoin" being arrested   lol

I have heard this reported on more then a few occasions.  Just goes to show you how much education we have left to do.  Unfortunately anyone born before 1964 is not going to GET it unless they want to understand.  They have the capability, most just don't have these desire.  And that is who we find in power currently.  

It will take another generation to come into power before we will be able to fully realize the full potential of this technology.

I'd say 10 years at the soonest and more likely 20 year for full integration.

This shows the problem with many people involved in the Foundation.  Some of them think everyone else needs to be educated when they don't know much themselves outside of the world of Bitcoin. 

[yatsey87]

Moreover, having Shrem himself bought something on SR, he can't say he was not aware of SR main interest...

Not sure if it makes sense, this is just my opinion but I'm looking forward to reading your comments..

That's actually a seemingly strong argument, to the point you've seen it over and over again in news stories, i.e. Shrem bought pot brownies from Silk Road, so he must have known it was nothing but a crime operation.

If this is actually their strongest argument, though, it's really weak.  It's sort of like arguing that because the co-owner of a mall once scored weed at the food court there, this is proof he knew the mall itself was actually just a drug operation in disguise.  It looks good on paper the first time you see it, but not if you actually think about it much.

I doubt the Silk Road connection is their only argument. They'll just get him on some money laundering or tax-evasion.

[UltraPleb]

All publicity is good publicity, lets see what happens surrounding this.

[BCB]

Someone actually came up to me and asked me if I heard about "the CEO of Bitcoin" being arrested   lol

I have heard this reported on more then a few occasions.  Just goes to show you how much education we have left to do.  Unfortunately anyone born before 1964 is not going to GET it unless they want to understand.  They have the capability, most just don't have these desire.  And that is who we find in power currently.  

It will take another generation to come into power before we will be able to fully realize the full potential of this technology.

I'd say 10 years at the soonest and more likely 20 year for full integration.

This shows the problem with many people involved in the Foundation.  Some of them think everyone else needs to be educated when they don't know much themselves outside of the world of Bitcoin. 

True,

That Peter Vesness, Mark Kapreles and Charlie Shrem are all involved in civil and/or criminal cases involving their virtual currency activities does not inspire me with confidence.  (Though Patrick Murck has been doing great work.)

[hilariousandco]

All publicity is good publicity, lets see what happens surrounding this.

Tell that to the victims of slander haha. I'd say it's awareness or at least getting the Bitcoin brand out there, but not necessarily good publicity. It's essentially a smear campaign, but hopefully more and more people will be able to see past this and to the benefits.

[BCB]

All publicity is good publicity, lets see what happens surrounding this.

Not really in the case of bitcoin.

I don't want to read about any more arrests or illicit uses.

We need a virtual currency project that provides financial inclusion to inner cities.  

We need a virtual currency solution that reduces costs and friction of the hundreds of millions of individuals remitting billions of dollars to their home countries.

We need a virtual currency project that provided transparency and accountability to non-profits that allows them to more fully realize their missions.

Everyone sees bitcoin as a great big money grap but the impact to greatly benefit society is profoundly significant.  That is just not sexy enough to get repeated in the press every day.

[BCB]

It's essentially a smear campaign....

If only that were true.

Individuals are conducting illegal activity with bitcoin. 

The lesson being that Bitcoin is not magical anonymous internet money.  If you use it to conduct illegal activity you may get caught and prosecuted.

pretty simple.

[jbreher]

The Foundation needs to be dissolved ASAP so legitimate companies can form a reasonable organization.

I don't see any reason why legitimate companies would have to wait for TBF to dissolve before forming a reasonable organization.

[HELP.org]

The Foundation needs to be dissolved ASAP so legitimate companies can form a reasonable organization.

I don't see any reason why legitimate companies would have to wait for TBF to dissolve before forming a reasonable organization.

Yes, true.  But I think Bitcoin will need more developers because the current team is entrenched within the current system and they control many things such as bitcoin.org.  of course things can move rather quickly if people are motivated to do so.  Hopefully they will arrest a few more people (like Theymos) and maybe that will start to bring some of the other people to their senses.

[TheButterZone]

All publicity is good publicity, lets see what happens surrounding this.

Not really in the case of bitcoin.

I don't want to read about any more arrests or illicit uses.

A desire that can never be realized. It is not possible to never commit a "crime" (not a crime at all if it has no victim), especially since when a government is criminal, it will brand opposition movements as "criminal". Opposing federal reserve notes, exercising victimless economic liberty, has resulted in countless criminal sanctions at every level, even before bitcoin.

Actions speak louder than hollow words at hearings. We're all on the list, and only those with enough wealth to bribe their way into cronyism will be immune. Same goes for other countries.

Satoshi disappeared (or "was disappeared" and signed-off after handing over the reigns, by an impersonator), out of the highest evolutionary instinct: self-preservation - and he would have, even if his early days-mined BTC was out of his control. Would you want to suffer every inhumanity that government would subject you to under color of authority, until your body shut down?

We need a virtual currency project that provides financial inclusion to inner cities.  

Which will be made a victimless crime if it isn't already. See Oakland, CA, Detroit, MI, and so on.

We need a virtual currency solution that reduces costs and friction of the hundreds of millions of individuals remitting billions of dollars to their home countries.

Which will be made a victimless crime if it isn't already. Regulatory capture works only for the wealthiest.

We need a virtual currency project that provided transparency and accountability to non-profits that allows them to more fully realize their missions.

Which will be made a victimless crime if it isn't already. The corrupt industry of "non-profits" (which are run to benefit their administrators more than their supposed beneficiaries) far outnumbers true non-profits. The corrupt do not want transparency or accountability, and the true non-profits do that well enough already.

Replies in bold.

[darkmule]

Money Laundering is when you try to hide the origins of funds though:

Placement - the initial entry of the "dirty" cash or proceeds of crime into the financial system.

Layering - attempt to separate illicit funds from its source.

Integration -  the money is returned to the launderer from what seem to be legitimate sources.

This is why I think the money laundering count is fairly weak.  I think it is there to coerce a plea to the less serious, but better established failure to file an Suspicious Activity Report count.  It is pretty clear Shrem had a legal obligation to make such a report.  He didn't.  That's pretty open and shut, I think.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Money Laundering is when you try to hide the origins of funds though:

Placement - the initial entry of the "dirty" cash or proceeds of crime into the financial system.

Layering - attempt to separate illicit funds from its source.

Integration -  the money is returned to the launderer from what seem to be legitimate sources.

This is why I think the money laundering count is fairly weak.  I think it is there to coerce a plea to the less serious, but better established failure to file an Suspicious Activity Report count.  It is pretty clear Shrem had a legal obligation to make such a report.  He didn't.  That's pretty open and shut, I think.

People need to stop using the "TV definition" of money laundering.  I have seen "black money into white money" and other similar nonsensical statements several times in this thread.

The statute is the statute and it is right here:

(3) Whoever, with the intent—
(A) to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity;
(B) to conceal or disguise the nature, location, source, ownership, or control of property believed to be the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or
(C) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law,

conducts or attempts to conduct a financial transaction involving property represented to be the proceeds of specified unlawful activity, or property used to conduct or facilitate specified unlawful activity, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both. For purposes of this paragraph and paragraph (2), the term “represented” means any representation made by a law enforcement officer or by another person at the direction of, or with the approval of, a Federal official authorized to investigate or prosecute violations of this section.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1956

Bolded for emphasis by me.  Money laundering is a very very broad statute.  It has many different elements.   The prosecutor isn't charging Shrem with Money Laundering but rather being part of a conspiracy to commit money laundering.  That means he doesn't even need to have commited all the elements of the crime himself, rather that his actions combined with the actions of his co-conspirator meet this definition "with the intent to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law ... conducted financial transactions involving property used to conduct or facilitate a specific unlawful activity".  

Is he guilty?  Well that is up for a jury but can we drop the quaint TV land money laundering = "making dirty money into clean money only" definitions.  They serve no purpose.  If the law says Money laundering is eating a cheeseburger on Tuesday then that is what it is.  To try and proactively avoid the flames, this isn't a statement on the merit, or morality of the statute, merely the statute as it exists.

[joulesbeef]

He should ahve bought some politicians.
you cant get rich and not share with congress.

sorry dont buy the money laundering.

the worlds major banks were just "busted" for KNOWINGLY laundering major drug cartels money.. can anyone remember what happen to those CEOS?