Hand Control to the Establishment: Arrest the Early Adopters

[r3wt]

I'd say most Americans lack a knowledge of what freedom means, from a constitutional perspective. They've been raised (as was I!)  in this system with all the messages and such... Most never really question what they're taught. They just follow the herd, keep their heads down, follow celebrities.

"waking up" as it were, takes a lot of effort and can be frankly painful. Most people resist it with everything they have.

Waking up will take something other than a bunch of internet che guevara wannabes, who btw got his ass holed in while in the jungles of bolivia because reality turned out a little different than his fantasies.

Your kind are the easiest to manipulate. This kind of juvenile bullshit 'rah rah rah fite da powa' is not freedom, neither is it 'exercising your rights'. It's just a whole lot of bitching.

Fish rots from the head. Head of democracy is supposed to be level-headed, courageous and responsible people who have some back bone. Since we got a bunch of internet cunts acting the role, you are the greatest contributor to the degradation of democratic values and freedom - simply because you don't have what it takes to deserve them.

Look to yourself before getting mouthy with the 'establishment'. Can't even take a breather to stop bitching and barking at 'THE MAN'.

+1

[tvbcof]

It occures to me with Charlie's arrest that this might be the start of people being arrested for things they did in the early days of bitcoin when it was all still considered "play money". With the blockchain being immutable as it is, the crimes of a few years ago (Stealing 10,000BTC) for example, might now be prosecutable, even though at the time maybe people thought it was worth no more then a 1000 USD. I bet a large number of theives or just lazy/entreprenurial bitcoin early adopters might have done things that sounded like fun at the time but now might be considered serious financial crimes. I wonder for example when Fontas might get found/arrested/prosecuted for securities fraud....

One of the very first bitcoin transactions I did was over PayPal.  The Vietnamese kid (?) got all screwed up with PayPal.  After I had the BTC, sent him some extra $US so he could un-fuck himself and break free of PayPal.  He kindly sent me the money back when this was accomplished.  (This probably gave us both a somewhat false sense of the community...oh well.  It was a calculated risk, and $20 to me was probably a lot more to most people in Vietnam.)

Anyway, it would never give me pleasure to steal anyone's Bitcoin, identity, $US, bucky-balls, or anything else.  I think the last thing 'stole' was a balsa-wood airplane to which I affixed the wrong price tag when I was about 10.  It still bothers me 35 years later.  Someone who did find these things fun is someone who well might be inclined to do it again.  Frankly I'm happy to have them identified at least (so I can avoid them), and I'm sure not going to shed to many tears for them if they need to pay for their indiscretions.  At least if the punishment fits the crime.

Shrem engaged in known criminal activity with the intent of enriching himself, but he was providing a service which was in demand and not engaging in straight theft of fraud against individuals from what I read.  Someone who flat out steal from people is much worse in my book.  Even if it is for 'less than $1000 worth of play money' and even if it was several years ago.

[empoweoqwj]

It occures to me with Charlie's arrest that this might be the start of people being arrested for things they did in the early days of bitcoin when it was all still considered "play money". With the blockchain being immutable as it is, the crimes of a few years ago (Stealing 10,000BTC) for example, might now be prosecutable, even though at the time maybe people thought it was worth no more then a 1000 USD. I bet a large number of theives or just lazy/entreprenurial bitcoin early adopters might have done things that sounded like fun at the time but now might be considered serious financial crimes. I wonder for example when Fontas might get found/arrested/prosecuted for securities fraud....

One of the very first bitcoin transactions I did was over PayPal.  The Vietnamese kid (?) got all screwed up with PayPal.  After I had the BTC, sent him some extra $US so he could un-fuck himself and break free of PayPal.  He kindly sent me the money back when this was accomplished.  (This probably gave us both a somewhat false sense of the community...oh well.  It was a calculated risk, and $20 to me was probably a lot more to most people in Vietnam.)

Anyway, it would never give me pleasure to steal anyone's Bitcoin, identity, $US, bucky-balls, or anything else.  I think the last thing 'stole' was a balsa-wood airplane to which I affixed the wrong price tag when I was about 10.  It still bothers me 35 years later.  Someone who did find these things fun is someone who well might be inclined to do it again.  Frankly I'm happy to have them identified at least (so I can avoid them), and I'm sure not going to shed to many tears for them if they need to pay for their indiscretions.  At least if the punishment fits the crime.

Shrem engaged in known criminal activity with the intent of enriching himself, but he was providing a service which was in demand and not engaging in straight theft of fraud against individuals from what I read.  Someone who flat out steal from people is much worse in my book.  Even if it is for 'less than $1000 worth of play money' and even if it was several years ago.

I don't think the FBI arrested him for "mucking about with bitcoins for a giggle". Not saying he is innocent or guilty of anything, just that the charge sheet is unlikely to read "having fun".

[AltorXP]

It occures to me with Charlie's arrest that this might be the start of people being arrested for things they did in the early days of bitcoin when it was all still considered "play money". With the blockchain being immutable as it is, the crimes of a few years ago (Stealing 10,000BTC) for example, might now be prosecutable, even though at the time maybe people thought it was worth no more then a 1000 USD. I bet a large number of theives or just lazy/entreprenurial bitcoin early adopters might have done things that sounded like fun at the time but now might be considered serious financial crimes. I wonder for example when Fontas might get found/arrested/prosecuted for securities fraud....

I really dont think something like that would even be close to fair, convicting someone for stealing an item when the item was worth $1 is much different when $1,000,000 (if the thief is being convicted for stealing $1,000,000). That is completely unfair -the loss the victim suffered should be based on the exchange rate at the time. Thats like say stealing a penny, but then there's is a massive copper shortage, and pennies are now worth 100x their original face value. Would the thief be convicted for stealing the original face value at the time it was stolen, or the new much higher value? I think the first is WAY more fair. Pretty far shot example, but it's the same concept.

[r3wt]

It occures to me with Charlie's arrest that this might be the start of people being arrested for things they did in the early days of bitcoin when it was all still considered "play money". With the blockchain being immutable as it is, the crimes of a few years ago (Stealing 10,000BTC) for example, might now be prosecutable, even though at the time maybe people thought it was worth no more then a 1000 USD. I bet a large number of theives or just lazy/entreprenurial bitcoin early adopters might have done things that sounded like fun at the time but now might be considered serious financial crimes. I wonder for example when Fontas might get found/arrested/prosecuted for securities fraud....

I really dont think something like that would even be close to fair, convicting someone for stealing an item when the item was worth $1 is much different when $1,000,000 (if the thief is being convicted for stealing $1,000,000). That is completely unfair -the loss the victim suffered should be based on the exchange rate at the time. Thats like say stealing a penny, but then there's is a massive copper shortage, and pennies are now worth 100x their original face value. Would the thief be convicted for stealing the original face value at the time it was stolen, or the new much higher value? I think the first is WAY more fair. Pretty far shot example, but it's the same concept.

Life isn't fair.

[tvbcof]

I really dont think something like that would even be close to fair, convicting someone for stealing an item when the item was worth $1 is much different when $1,000,000 (if the thief is being convicted for stealing $1,000,000). That is completely unfair -the loss the victim suffered should be based on the exchange rate at the time. Thats like say stealing a penny, but then there's is a massive copper shortage, and pennies are now worth 100x their original face value. Would the thief be convicted for stealing the original face value at the time it was stolen, or the new much higher value? I think the first is WAY more fair. Pretty far shot example, but it's the same concept.

The victim is very likely out $1M.

Some God damn fucking tweaker scum stole an old riding tractor from me a while ago.  He probably got $1 for it at the scrap yard.  It was worth 100x that to me because it had sentimental value and I had plans for it.

As soon as you start doing stupid and criminal things you are responsible for the losses that result as far as I am concerned.  Don't like it?  Don't steal from people.

[jubalix]

It occures to me with Charlie's arrest that this might be the start of people being arrested for things they did in the early days of bitcoin when it was all still considered "play money". With the blockchain being immutable as it is, the crimes of a few years ago (Stealing 10,000BTC) for example, might now be prosecutable, even though at the time maybe people thought it was worth no more then a 1000 USD. I bet a large number of theives or just lazy/entreprenurial bitcoin early adopters might have done things that sounded like fun at the time but now might be considered serious financial crimes. I wonder for example when Fontas might get found/arrested/prosecuted for securities fraud....

One of the very first bitcoin transactions I did was over PayPal.  The Vietnamese kid (?) got all screwed up with PayPal.  After I had the BTC, sent him some extra $US so he could un-fuck himself and break free of PayPal.  He kindly sent me the money back when this was accomplished.  (This probably gave us both a somewhat false sense of the community...oh well.  It was a calculated risk, and $20 to me was probably a lot more to most people in Vietnam.)

Anyway, it would never give me pleasure to steal anyone's Bitcoin, identity, $US, bucky-balls, or anything else.  I think the last thing 'stole' was a balsa-wood airplane to which I affixed the wrong price tag when I was about 10.  It still bothers me 35 years later.  Someone who did find these things fun is someone who well might be inclined to do it again.  Frankly I'm happy to have them identified at least (so I can avoid them), and I'm sure not going to shed to many tears for them if they need to pay for their indiscretions.  At least if the punishment fits the crime.

Shrem engaged in known criminal activity with the intent of enriching himself, but he was providing a service which was in demand and not engaging in straight theft of fraud against individuals from what I read.  Someone who flat out steal from people is much worse in my book.  Even if it is for 'less than $1000 worth of play money' and even if it was several years ago.

a question though, since you deal in FIAT to buy things you are effectively stealing from others by every transaction due to  nature of FIAT. FIAT steals work/value from individuals.....by a myriad of scheme e.g. no competition of currency, differential of taxation, quantitative easing, only state issuers. It's merely we are educated to look upon the en-masse stealing of use of state issued FIAT as legitimate.

I know what you mean by "stealing" and I agree, but thats a very obvious clear form of stealing that is no where near the stealing/acquisition of value and wealth transfer made by every transaction by every FIAT actor.

[BTCisthefuture]

It's a huge stretch to say knowingly and willingly advertising/selling bitcoins on an illegal drug website is simply "playing around with bitcions".

This arrest has nothing to do with bitcoin or early adopters or any such thing. It has to do with people willingly and knowingly being involved with illegal drug sales.  Regardless of what your views are on the war on drugs, everyone should have the brain power to know they are still illegal.

[Honeypot]

It's a huge stretch to say knowingly and willingly advertising/selling bitcoins on an illegal drug website is simply "playing around with bitcions".

This arrest has nothing to do with bitcoin or early adopters or any such thing. It has to do with people willingly and knowingly being involved with illegal drug sales.  Regardless of what your views are on the war on drugs, everyone should have the brain power to know they are still illegal.

Forget illegal. This is what happens when a bunch of weak ass kids in 20 something year old bodies pretend they got it all made and try to run their 'crypto empire' from behind a laptop.

Deal wit it, bitches

[tvbcof]

a question though, since you deal in FIAT to buy things you are effectively stealing from others by every transaction due to  nature of FIAT. FIAT steals work/value from individuals.....by a myriad of scheme e.g. no competition of currency, differential of taxation, quantitative easing, only state issuers. It's merely we are educated to look upon the en-masse stealing of use of state issued FIAT as legitimate.

I know what you mean by "stealing" and I agree, but thats a very obvious clear form of stealing that is no where near the stealing/acquisition of value and wealth transfer made by every transaction by every FIAT actor.

Firstly, when the bills are inscribed with 'in tvbcof we trust' I'll take a little more personal responsibility for the scam.

Secondly, you are talking to a guy who has been dicking around with PM's for over a decade and BTC for what is now a relatively long time.  This for a reason.  I am not satisfied with certain aspects of our mainstream monetary systems myself and have been more active than most in exploring alternatives.

Thirdly, I've only taken out one bank loan in my life (to buy an FZR400), and I bought CD's to automatically pay it off.  I paid for school by working in the summers.  I thus don't contribute to the money supply at all.  I do hold some money in the bank which allows them to inflate the money supply by giving loans to other suckers to buy overpriced housing and such, but I try to avoid even that and a bulk of my wealth is not situated where it can be sucked into the shadow banking system.

[tvbcof]

Forget illegal. This is what happens when a bunch of weak ass kids in 20 something year old bodies pretend they got it all made and try to run their 'crypto empire' from behind a laptop.

Deal wit it, bitches

Sounds like you are a bit butt-hurt about not getting in a bit earlier and making some money.  Deal wit it, Bitch

Yours,

  Che G.

[Honeypot]

Forget illegal. This is what happens when a bunch of weak ass kids in 20 something year old bodies pretend they got it all made and try to run their 'crypto empire' from behind a laptop.

Deal wit it, bitches

Sounds like you are a bit butt-hurt about not getting in a bit earlier and making some money.  Deal wit it, Bitch

Yours,

  Che G.

LOL this bitch. Predictable asspain when getting told off doesn't even begin to cover this response.

[BitCoinNutJob]

How many of the 10k+ btc holders are known?

[nobbynobbynoob]

How many of the 10k+ btc holders are known?

All of them:

• Satoshi Nakamoto
• Mt Gox
• Bitstamp
• Max Keiser
• Roger Ver
• Eric Voorhees
• Winklevoss twins
• FBI

Just kidding of course, but there can't be too many more than that.

[anti-scam]

Sweeping up all of the early adopter coins and taking over the system is a potential risk for Bitcoin. Hopefully most early adopters have stayed under the radar despite these high-profile examples. A solution to the confiscation problem might be in order too.

[eldentyrell]

Nothing is ever going to happen to Pirate.

Or Zhou Tong.

[cryptoanarchist]

I'd say most Americans lack a knowledge of what freedom means, from a constitutional perspective. They've been raised (as was I!)  in this system with all the messages and such... Most never really question what they're taught. They just follow the herd, keep their heads down, follow celebrities.

"waking up" as it were, takes a lot of effort and can be frankly painful. Most people resist it with everything they have.

Waking up will take something other than a bunch of internet che guevara wannabes, who btw got his ass holed in while in the jungles of bolivia because reality turned out a little different than his fantasies.

Your kind are the easiest to manipulate. This kind of juvenile bullshit 'rah rah rah fite da powa' is not freedom, neither is it 'exercising your rights'. It's just a whole lot of bitching.

Fish rots from the head. Head of democracy is supposed to be level-headed, courageous and responsible people who have some back bone. Since we got a bunch of internet cunts acting the role, you are the greatest contributor to the degradation of democratic values and freedom - simply because you don't have what it takes to deserve them.

Look to yourself before getting mouthy with the 'establishment'. Can't even take a breather to stop bitching and barking at 'THE MAN'.

Pretty obvious name for an obvious government agent. Welcome to ignore.

[arklan]

I'd say most Americans lack a knowledge of what freedom means, from a constitutional perspective. They've been raised (as was I!)  in this system with all the messages and such... Most never really question what they're taught. They just follow the herd, keep their heads down, follow celebrities.

"waking up" as it were, takes a lot of effort and can be frankly painful. Most people resist it with everything they have.

Waking up will take something other than a bunch of internet che guevara wannabes, who btw got his ass holed in while in the jungles of bolivia because reality turned out a little different than his fantasies.

Your kind are the easiest to manipulate. This kind of juvenile bullshit 'rah rah rah fite da powa' is not freedom, neither is it 'exercising your rights'. It's just a whole lot of bitching.

Fish rots from the head. Head of democracy is supposed to be level-headed, courageous and responsible people who have some back bone. Since we got a bunch of internet cunts acting the role, you are the greatest contributor to the degradation of democratic values and freedom - simply because you don't have what it takes to deserve them.

Look to yourself before getting mouthy with the 'establishment'. Can't even take a breather to stop bitching and barking at 'THE MAN'.

Pretty obvious name for an obvious government agent. Welcome to ignore.

Funny thing... I have lived in Russia, under a... Different attempt at democracy. This was 2007. Quite a learning experience.

I don't sit around bitching about that man. I quietly recognize there are problems, and few of the general public seem to care. I never said I had any knowledge of how to change things.

[cryptoanarchist]

Let's remember that Charlie Shrem admitted ON THIS FORUM that he was a member of the Rothschild family. That, and the fact he was able to move large sums around and clear regulatory hurdles before anyone else means he's connected.

This whole event is just theater; psychological warfare. Are you buying it?

[Sonny]

Nothing is ever going to happen to Pirate.

Or Zhou Tong.