Bitcoin Forum
April 26, 2024, 05:38:28 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Is Gavin Andresen Sincere when he says he cares deeply about privacy in Bitcoin?  (Read 3920 times)
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009



View Profile
March 02, 2014, 10:42:19 PM
 #21

Forget about anonymity If you want to see $10K/btc.
There are two ways to see $10K/btc, either because Bitcoin is ascending, or else because the USD is descending.

In spite of this I imagine the propaganda and pressure on the Bitcoin community to sell off their privacy is only going to increase.

I think the community is too smart to fall for that.
"Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714109908
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714109908

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714109908
Reply with quote  #2

1714109908
Report to moderator
1714109908
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714109908

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714109908
Reply with quote  #2

1714109908
Report to moderator
genjix
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1072


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 02:00:10 AM
 #22

yeah wicked! lets do it. we have lots of smart people and some nice projects emerging.
r0ach
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 02:54:58 AM
 #23

Too many people spamming about Zerocoin when they don't know anything about it besides the name.  It's obviously not even close to usable for prime time in current form without drastically scaling Bitcoin backwards.  Darkcoin is the only hope for the foreseeable future.

You can also ignore Anonymint, because he was talking about "fatal flaws" of Darkcoin before having any idea how it works and bases everything on the initial coinjoin thread, when there are many different ways to implement it.


......ATLANT......
..Real Estate Blockchain Platform..
                    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
                    ████████████░
                  ▄██████████████░
                 ▒███████▄████████░
                ▒█████████░████████░
                ▀███████▀█████████
                  ██████████████
           ███████▐██▀████▐██▄████████░
          ▄████▄█████████▒████▌█████████░
         ███████▄█████████▀██████████████░
        █████████▌█████████▐█████▄████████░
        ▀█████████████████▐███████████████
          █████▀████████ ░███████████████
    ██████▐██████████▄████████████████████████░
  ▄████▄████████▐███████████████░▄▄▄▄░████████░
 ▄██████▄█████████▐█████▄█████████▀████▄█████████░
███████████████████▐█████▄█████████▐██████████████░
▀████████▀█████████▒██████████████▐█████▀█████████
  ████████████████ █████▀█████████████████████████
   ▀██▀██████████ ▐█████████████  ▀██▀██████████
    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀█████████    ▀▀██████████

..INVEST  ●  RENT  ●  TRADE..
 ✓Assurance     ✓Price Discovery     ✓Liquidity     ✓Low Fees





███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

◣Whitepaper ◣ANN ThreadTelegram
◣ Facebook     ◣ Reddit          ◣ Slack


███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███





███
███
███
███
███
███








Hero/Legendary members
AnonyMint
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 521


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:00:53 AM
Last edit: March 03, 2014, 03:25:10 AM by AnonyMint
 #24

Too many people spamming about Zerocoin when they don't know anything about it besides the name.  It's obviously not even close to usable for prime time in current form without drastically scaling Bitcoin backwards.  Darkcoin is the only hope for the foreseeable future.

You can also ignore Anonymint, because he was talking about "fatal flaws" of Darkcoin before having any idea how it works and bases everything on the initial coinjoin thread, when there are many different ways to implement it.

r0ach apparently (?) has no technical comprehension.

Tor, DarkCoin, CoinJoin, Zerocoin are all fundamentally (meaning can't be fixed) flawed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg5474597#msg5474597
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439357.msg5454853#msg5454853

Note I think Zerocoin has a very important role to play combined with my design for mixing, but not by itself.

unheresy.com - Prodigiously Elucidating the Profoundly ObtuseTHIS FORUM ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE
Bit_Happy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1040


A Great Time to Start Something!


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:12:16 AM
 #25

...
Forget about anonymity If you want to see $10K/btc.
There are two ways to see $10K/btc, either because Bitcoin is ascending, or else because the USD is descending.
...
[/quote]

Good reminder, the Dollar crashing will make BTC look higher.

TheFootMan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:30:29 AM
 #26

In this video around 4:05 Gavin Andresen says that he does care deeply about privacy.

His name is public, he has a wife and at least one kid. His whereabouts is known. I can imagine it would not be too difficult to influence him one way or another.

Threat from US government:

- Cooperate with us, or we will put you away indefinitely  for being a threat to national security (patriot act). If faced with the choice of either cooperating without telling anyone and maintaining his current life or being thrown in jail for life, what would most men chose, what would Gavin chose? The cooperation would not be visible to anyone in particular, the only difference would be that Gavin would simply not push features that would make Bitcoin more anonymous and private, but all his arguments would've been made such that he could not really be accused of anything. Or, he has great integrity and says bluntly he would not accept this, and rather be jailed than being coerced. Then the 3-letter agency ups their game and tells him stories about what has happened to the families of those not wanting to cooperate. Showing him some messed up pics of car wrecks and staring him deeply in the eyes. What would he chose? Go to jail and see his family wiped out?

Risk for the US Govt: Close to none, who should punish them? And they would of course deny all allegations, and there's always the convenient car accidents. Don't believe me? How do you think Michael Hastings died?

Seeing that snowden revelations showed that there were backdoors in numerous hardware devices, what is there from imagining that the NSA has software engineers planted with big car-manufactures, or cooperate with big car-manufactures to install back doors, or kill-switches in their electronics? So, want some noisy person eliminated? Send a black op truck in range of radio transmission, and in the most convenient moment, mess up the electronics in the car, so the car crashes with a truck in an intersection or drives off a cliff. Who's to prove it was not just an accident?

Or it could be a mugging go wrong, so even the family would think it was just a freak accident. The list goes on and on. Basically, if they really want you, there's no escape unless you do not fear torture and possibly death and the loss of your dear ones.

So most people would cooperate. Because they had no choice. Many people would gladly sacrifice themselves for a cause, but very few people would sacrifice their family, esp. not someone that's really a family man.

Threat from a criminal organization:

Gavin would most likely tell the authorities, and he would receive protection and be moved to a safe place along with his family. Huge risk for the people threatening him, as they would have law enforcement after them.  Would still be effective enough to maybe scare him away from Bitcoin permanently.

Also take in account that he's paid by the Bitcoin Foundation, and although the Bitcoin Foundation claim that their mission is to protect, educate and promote bitcoin, history has shown that large business interests is their primary concern. So, if it does not fit with the agenda of the Bitcoin Foundation, I'm sure they've got some leverage on him. Hi, Gavin, could you just wait a little bit with that privacy patch ? *wink wink* Perhaps he would say no, and leave the foundation, or perhaps he would convince it is the best to keep the steady paycheck and listen to his employer, after all that particular path that made the system slightly more anonymous is not THAT important after all..

Although it's likely that he does actually have freedom to work on whatever the heck he wants in regards to bitcoin with minimal intervention from the Foundation, let's not be naive and not see the connection there. If he wanted to be truly independent, he'd remove himself from any such associations, and work independently, I'm sure the community would tip him handsomely, and there could even be a vote system where the community could vote for what features they think should be prioritized, which could be used as a guideline for work assignment.

He will probably frown on this suggestion and tell us just to trust him.

As the bitcoin network grows, it is likely some attention will be directed towards the developers who control the code. Although any new update needs consensus from the community - the devs does in fact control the whole system make the source code. If they were compromised the system could be forked, and new devs taking over. Or we could simply refuse to update the nodes, until the situation was solved. I don't know if there exist a warning system for such cases. Yes, we do trust the devs, but even trustworthy people should be watched.

So - if there's some connections between Gavin and some 3-letter agency making him into acting a certain way, he would of course deny it. No agent would ever admit to being an agent.

But if he wasan agent it would be straightforward to claim that he's very much concerned about users privacy, and then almost always pointing to some other work having a higher prio each time someone asks, and then if there's enough pressure, maybe just implement some small privacy enhancing feature to silence the critics.
AnonyMint
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 521


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:40:09 AM
Last edit: March 03, 2014, 03:56:45 AM by AnonyMint
 #27

Gavin could possibly have received a National Security Letter but would be compelled to answer "No" if you asked him as Linus Torvalds did while shaking his head "yes".

Let's not demonize him. He is a public figure. He is a human who probably who cares deeply about others (Sociopaths are very small percentage of the population). He probably has rationalized his situation so he can remain sane.

Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals' problem, which had no known solution since its discovery in 1975. This enabled decentralized trust of untrusted (uncertain if can trust) peers.

Gavin as well intentioned as he may be, must be considered an untrusted peer. Thus the system of a controlling foundation is not to be trusted.

Actions speak louder than words. Judge by the merits of the action.

"Talk is cheap, show me the code"-- Linus Torvalds.

Normally we assume the code can't lie, due to the Linus rule (coined by Eric S Raymond), "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow".

unheresy.com - Prodigiously Elucidating the Profoundly ObtuseTHIS FORUM ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE
drawingthesun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:40:36 AM
 #28

It's safe to assume Gavin Andresen is compromised, if not now it's certainly true for the future.

The US Government was able to influence and silence even the largest tech companies. Once Gavins wife and child are in the firing line I guarantee there will be no true anonymity in Bitcoin.

This should not surprise any of you. Many core developers want regulation, non anonymous bitcoin transactions and even CoinValidation for those bad criminal coins.

Satoshi did not ask for permission and Satoshi did not take it up the ass.

The next incarnation of Bitcoin will be spearheaded by another anonymous genius.
TheFootMan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 03:59:25 AM
 #29

It's safe to assume Gavin Andresen is compromised, if not now it's certainly true for the future.

The US Government was able to influence and silence even the largest tech companies. Once Gavins wife and child are in the firing line I guarantee there will be no true anonymity in Bitcoin.

This should not surprise any of you. Many core developers want regulation, non anonymous bitcoin transactions and even coin blocks for those bad criminal coins.

Satoshi did not ask for permission and Satoshi did not take it up the ass.

The next incarnation of Bitcoin will be spearheaded by another anonymous genius.

I not only think you're right, I know you're right. Knowing as in thinking logically, not knowing as in 100% proof. :p

However, the source code is watched. Gavin is the one who signs released binaries, right? How many others are part of this process? If a binary was compiled on a separate system, code could be injected that was not in the main repository and still be signed with Gavin's key. If that happened and found out, of course that would for ever erode all trust in him, and might lead to some kind of crisis in the bitcoin community. Is there an easy way to see if the binaries produced are legit in regards to the official source code? Would compilation on separate systems although with same sw environment  produce the same binaries, what if we look at different os environments, still possible? And could that be done consistently? For instance, gavin releases binaries signed, and then these are put in a release que, until confirmed by other devs, and possible by volunteers in the community that just wants to help? If there are some discrepancies, these needs to be weeded out before the new release is going public.

If nefarious code is injected in the standard client and released on bitcoin.org, how long time would it take before anyone noticed? And in the event it would be noticed, what kind of alert systems are there in place to alert the community? I've seen alerts been broadcast through the client, but how many have the power to do this?

Or - perhaps I should just ask more bluntly? Has anyone drafted a crisis plan and laid out the various scenarios, ie. what's often called a contingency plan?

I can imagine many scenarios where something bad could happen, and how would everything play out then?

An attack by a very powerful entity could be done from many angles at the same time, and I'm just wondering if there's any plans for this?

I have great respect for every core dev, and I don't think they mind serious questions being asked. And I don't think they will take it personal, and it is certainly not my intention to make it personal. I'm just thinking about the network as a whole and how to protect it. That might sound cheesy, but the day anything happens, it is better to be prepared than not being prepared..

Gavin could possibly have received a National Security Letter but would be compelled to answer "No" if you asked him as Linus Torvalds did while shaking his head "yes".

Let's not demonize him. He is a public figure. He is a human who probably who cares deeply about others (Sociopaths are very small percentage of the population).

Yes, I do have a very good impression about Gavin. I'm not out to demonize him at all. I would ask the same questions no matter who were the lead dev. But - if there was a concerted attack, and mind you, that would probably be planned well and long in advance, having ways of combating it would be great.
AnonyMint
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 521


View Profile
March 03, 2014, 04:04:08 AM
 #30

The next incarnation of Bitcoin will be spearheaded by another anonymous genius.

Thank you very much.  Lips sealed

unheresy.com - Prodigiously Elucidating the Profoundly ObtuseTHIS FORUM ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!