Counterfeit $100 Bills

[RenegadeMind]

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140130/midtown/millions-of-dollars-phony-100-bllls-flooding-big-apple

blah blah blah...

If you have a phony $100 that is confiscated, you will lose the value of the money but can declare a tax loss at the end of the year, officials said.

If you have a "fake" $100 bill, why wouldn't you just spend it? Who really cares? Do you want to suck up the loss? They print the crap fast enough that a few million or hundred million won't make a difference anyways.

Oh, and Bitcoin users not affected.

[1715017601]

1715017601

[1715017601]

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[flagel8]

1. It's unethical. Someone down the line will be inconvenienced by it. Maybe even hurt by it. Bad karma.

2. It's illegal. Knowingly spending a bogus bill can cause you a world of trouble.

[odolvlobo]

If you have a "fake" $100 bill, why wouldn't you just spend it? Who really cares? Do you want to suck up the loss? They print the crap fast enough that a few million or hundred million won't make a difference anyways.

The person that receives your fake $100 bill will care. You are saying that if someone steals $100 from you, then it is ok to steal $100 from someone else. If you accept a fake $100 bill, then that's unfortunate, but it doesn't give you the right to rip off someone else.

[TheButterZone]

If I got a $100 anywhere the right to self-defense wasn't infringed to oblivion like NYC, I'd be checking it for counterfeit before allowing them to leave with whatever I got the $100 for. If they ran, I'd have probable cause to citizen arrest them for a felony, if they stayed, then I'd give them the number of the closest Secret Service field office and let them take it from there: http://www.secretservice.gov/field_offices.shtml

[RenegadeMind]

1. It's unethical. Someone down the line will be inconvenienced by it. Maybe even hurt by it. Bad karma.

To play devil's advocate, what's the material difference between the two? Only the manufacturer. Is it unethical to spend bills from another manufacturer? Or, is it unethical to use knock-off or copy-cat products?

2. It's illegal. Knowingly spending a bogus bill can cause you a world of trouble.

That's likely pretty hard to prove. Counterfeits are designed to fool people that are better able to detect a counterfeit than you or me. Well, assuming you're not an expert on the subject - I'm not.

If you have a "fake" $100 bill, why wouldn't you just spend it? Who really cares? Do you want to suck up the loss? They print the crap fast enough that a few million or hundred million won't make a difference anyways.

The person that receives your fake $100 bill will care. You are saying that if someone steals $100 from you, then it is ok to steal $100 from someone else. If you accept a fake $100 bill, then that's unfortunate, but it doesn't give you the right to rip off someone else.

I probably didn't phrase that very well. I was fumbling at trying to say, "what's the difference?" It's unlikely that many people who have the bills can tell, so for them, it makes no difference at all. And if that's the case, then what difference is there if they're both serving the same purpose with no functional difference?

Still... Bitcoin users not affected.

[hashman]

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140130/midtown/millions-of-dollars-phony-100-bllls-flooding-big-apple

They're all phony right?  I thought that was already priced into the market. 

Oh, and Bitcoin users not affected.

Speak for yourself.  Some of us exchange bitcoins for these notes all the time and some people even put weight on how many of these notes they can get for a bitcoin. 

[CMMPro]

Forget $100 bills...in Canada here we have a shitload of even $5 bills that are fakes.

I literally check every bill I'm handed these days to see if it is counterfeit...you can't trust paper money any more. 
 

[hilariousandco]

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140130/midtown/millions-of-dollars-phony-100-bllls-flooding-big-apple

They're all phony right?  I thought that was already priced into the market.  

Yeah, I think we all know who are the biggest crooks / counterfeiters.

I keep a fake pound coin in my wallet just to help demonstrate the benefits of Bitcoin.

[flagel8]

Forget $100 bills...in Canada here we have a shitload of even $5 bills that are fakes.

I literally check every bill I'm handed these days to see if it is counterfeit...you can't trust paper money any more.  
 

Really? I wasn't aware of the plethora of fake fives! Not the plastic ones, I guess, but the paper ones, right?

Anyway, this topic is interesting, because it's part of why I got into cryptos. I was buying some buns at a Chinese bakery with one of the new plastic twenties, but though they were newly issued, this one looked... OLD, worn, like it had gone through the washer. Or maybe it really WAS old, spent by a time traveller who had bought it in an antique coin shop before coming to our time. (Probably bought it with 2 Dogecoins, but I digress...!)

Anyway, the shop clerk kept holding it up to the light, turning it back and forth. I was kind of insulted, since I shop there all the time! She finally took it, but was shaking her head as she did so. At that point, my brain went, AHA! If this were Bitcoin, there would be no problem, since they can't be counterfeited.

Of course, now our gub'mint would like to foist Mintchip on us. Those are sort of like counterfeit Bitcoins...

[odolvlobo]

It's unlikely that many people who have the bills can tell, so for them, it makes no difference at all. And if that's the case, then what difference is there if they're both serving the same purpose with no functional difference?

They will find out when the person they give it to notices, and then they are screwed. Anyway, it doesn't make a difference. By passing a fake $100, you are ripping somebody off.

[guybrushthreepwood]

It's unlikely that many people who have the bills can tell, so for them, it makes no difference at all. And if that's the case, then what difference is there if they're both serving the same purpose with no functional difference?

They will find out when the person they give it to notices, and then they are screwed. Anyway, it doesn't make a difference. By passing a fake $100, you are ripping somebody off.

The thing with fake money is it's as valuable as real money if nobody notices. As with 'real' notes it only has worth because we believe it does. If you can go into a store and they accept it as payment, then it obviously has worth.

[huckfinn]

 We could spend the fake bills on stolen or illegal goods, help clean up the mess that is modern gangs and drug traffickers..

[RenegadeMind]

It's unlikely that many people who have the bills can tell, so for them, it makes no difference at all. And if that's the case, then what difference is there if they're both serving the same purpose with no functional difference?

They will find out when the person they give it to notices, and then they are screwed. Anyway, it doesn't make a difference. By passing a fake $100, you are ripping somebody off.

But the chances of someone noticing are still very small. How many clerks have you seen actually look at bills you hand them beyond a cursory glace to determine the denomination?

I don't know how common "fake" fiat is, but there's a chance that we've all "ripped off" people without even knowing it.

It's unlikely that many people who have the bills can tell, so for them, it makes no difference at all. And if that's the case, then what difference is there if they're both serving the same purpose with no functional difference?

They will find out when the person they give it to notices, and then they are screwed. Anyway, it doesn't make a difference. By passing a fake $100, you are ripping somebody off.

The thing with fake money is it's as valuable as real money if nobody notices. As with 'real' notes it only has worth because we believe it does. If you can go into a store and they accept it as payment, then it obviously has worth.

Exactly.

There's nothing inherently different between 2 otherwise identical pieces of paper. It's merely an argument about "who" produced the paper, which makes it sound like it's all about numismatics.

More Devil's advocate: For probably a better example (or more convoluted example perhaps), take coins produced by the Royal Canadian Mint or the Perth mint; they have a very high markup on them with $5 1/2 ozt silver coins regularly costing $80 or so. If you can produce an identical copy and sell it for say $50, what harm are you doing? People who buy the copies get a functional and aesthetically equivalent coin for $30 less. The only difference is the manufacturer - you vs. the RCM or Perth mint. It seems like you're filling a neglected niche in the market - cheaper silver coins.

So what's wrong with competition?

Is this whole "counterfeit" business just the whining of a monopolist?

Crypto currencies get around the entire debate very nicely. You just don't get to argue with mathematics - math wins - you lose. Kind of nice to have the currency dependent on the Natural Laws of the universe.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Is this whole "counterfeit" business just the whining of a monopolist?

Crypto currencies get around the entire debate very nicely. You just don't get to argue with mathematics - math wins - you lose. Kind of nice to have the currency dependent on the Natural Laws of the universe.

This is it, and exactly why I hope cryptos prevail and become the dominant currencies of the future.