Fee deducted from the transferred amount. Insane.

[Stn]

I do sell stuff for Bitcoin. Usually it works normal. But quite often I see buyers who order product but send less amount. It seems Bitcoin fee was deducted from that amount. Obviously merchant script does not trigger and waits for more bitcoins to arrive.

I wonder what insane Bitcoin client does such thing? May be I can post a notice warning such Bitcoin client users, that they won't get ordered stuff if not full amount arrived.

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[DeathAndTaxes]

Have you asked your customers?  It would be a good thing to know and they likely are the only ones who are going to know for sure.

[Stn]

Customers are mostly anonymous. In this particular business model I don't have to have contact to the customer to deliver product.

[TheButterZone]

It's likely they're withdrawing from an exchange or other e-wallet that has a withdrawal fee in addition to the transaction fee. People need to either 1) stop using goddamn sites that charge withdrawal fees or 2) overbuy BTC on exchanges with withdrawal fees, withdraw to their personal wallet, then send from there, using the appropriate TX fee.

[cr1776]

Have you checked the transactions to see if there is a common web wallet you can locate? If non-web, there aren't many options to test..

[DeathAndTaxes]

Have you checked the transactions to see if there is a common web wallet you can locate? If non-web, there aren't many options to test..

I am fairly certain no desktop client deducts miner fees from the amount sent.  MtGox charges 10x the min fee for withdraws but it is taken from account balance not the amount sent.  I am fairly certain bitstamp and coinbase do the same.    So it probably is some web wallet or smaller exchange.  Not sure why people use exchange accounts as a spending wallet but they do.    I agree with the OP it is an utterly stupid decision.  I mean it break even "common sense".  If I use my bank account to do a transfer, bill pay, or even bank wire there may be a fee but the fee is never deducted from the amount being sent.  It would cause all kinds unnecessary chaos, support calls, and upset customers in the traditional finance world as well.

If any user (or any service, exchange, web-wallet, etc) can confirm an instance where a tx fee, or withdraw fee was deducted from the amount sent please post an example as someone needs to beat that developer over the head with a book on software design.

[Stn]

It is definitely not withdrawal fee. Blockchain shows following information:

Output X BTC -- Fee: 0.0001 BTC -- Input (X-0.0001) BTC

Where X is contractual price of the product.

[maxtoshi]

just-dice

[cr1776]

Have you checked the transactions to see if there is a common web wallet you can locate? If non-web, there aren't many options to test..

I am fairly certain no desktop client deducts miner fees from the amount sent.  MtGox charges 10x the min fee for withdraws but it is taken from account balance not the amount sent.  I am fairly certain bitstamp and coinbase do the same.    So it probably is some web wallet or smaller exchange.  Not sure why people use exchange accounts as a spending wallet but they do.    I agree with the OP it is an utterly stupid decision.  I mean it break even "common sense".  If I use my bank account to do a transfer, bill pay, or even bank wire there may be a fee but the fee is never deducted from the amount being sent.  It would cause all kinds unnecessary chaos, support calls, and upset customers in the traditional finance world as well.

If any user (or any service, exchange, web-wallet, etc) can confirm an instance where a tx fee, or withdraw fee was deducted from the amount sent please post an example as someone needs to beat that developer over the head with a book on software design.

I agree, I was trying to get OP to limit the variables with more information.  It is definitely stupid, but we still can't tell where it is coming from.  :-)

[cp1]

Maybe they're using some mixer to be anonymous and aren't taking the fee into account.

[Stn]

Anonymity here is not important point. It came as a side effect. There are no legal issues with the stuff I sell. Just personally I hate when I buy digital product they ask my home address. What for? So when I sell myself I ask only those details which I really need.

[Stn]

Just today I got contact and chased one of the buyer with BTC transferred incomplete. He said he used BTC-e for payment.

[TheButterZone]

It's likely they're withdrawing from an exchange or other e-wallet that has a withdrawal fee in addition to the transaction fee. People need to either 1) stop using goddamn sites that charge withdrawal fees or 2) overbuy BTC on exchanges with withdrawal fees, withdraw to their personal wallet, then send from there, using the appropriate TX fee.

He said he used BTC-e for payment.

Exactly.

[bryant.coleman]

Unless we take care of these small issues, BTC will never get popular with online merchants.

[TheButterZone]

I'm not sure how "we can take care of" exchange operators being arseholes.

[Barek]

BTC-e clearly states how much is fee and how much is actually transferred.

Simple user error.

[DeathAndTaxes]

BTC-e clearly states how much is fee and how much is actually transferred.

Simple user error.

Nothing is ever that "simple".  Sites should strive to make things transparent.  It is a better/cleaner interface to ask the user the amount they want to withdraw and then add the fee to that and show the user the total.

As an example billpay for consumers is often free, but billpay for businesses is often a charge.  I think we pay $0.20 or something like that.  I don't have to make sure to add $0.20 to the amount of the billpay because the bank will deduct it.  The bank pays what I ask them to pay, and they deduct the $0.20 from the account balance.

I mean if you leave it all on users and say "user error" then why even have websites.  Give users instructions and have them manually construct the TCP/IP packets to communicate with the service.  Ok I wasn't being serious on that one but you get the point.

[Barek]

Nothing is ever that "simple".  Sites should strive to make things transparent.  It is a better/cleaner interface to ask the user the amount they want to withdraw and then add the fee to that and show the user the total.

As an example billpay for consumers is often free, but billpay for businesses is often a charge.  I think we pay $0.20 or something like that.  I don't have to make sure to add $0.20 to the amount of the billpay because the bank will deduct it.  The bank pays what I ask them to pay, and they deduct the $0.20 from the account balance.

I mean if you leave it all on users and say "user error" then why even have websites.  Give users instructions and have them manually construct the TCP/IP packets to communicate with the service.  Ok I wasn't being serious on that one but you get the point.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the BTC-e withdraw form. It says "You will receive:". That's the amount the entered address will receive. If the amount in there is not the amount that the address is supposed to receive, well, then the amount was entered incorrectly. I think some things can be expected of the user.

Leave out the transfer fee deduction and you have users complaining of being ripped off.

[NoPickles1]

Is there an exchange or wallet that charge no transfer fee to move bitcoins?

I'd like to know 

[sssubito]

I do sell stuff for Bitcoin. Usually it works normal. But quite often I see buyers who order product but send less amount. It seems Bitcoin fee was deducted from that amount. Obviously merchant script does not trigger and waits for more bitcoins to arrive.

Consider making your merchant script more 'smart'! Despite the inability (and sometimes intention) of customers to send proper payments, you should think of how much is missing (total percentage) and is it worth the hassle with the delayed and pending order.

Compare it e.g. to bastards from hell PayPal. They deduct a noticeable percentage as fee. If the percentage you miss is below that, don't care and swallow it. At least with Bitcoins noone can freeze your account or charge back the payment. That alone is worth it over fu***** PayPal.