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Author Topic: Mooncoin taken over by the feds?  (Read 13623 times)
LoupGaroux
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September 29, 2011, 03:15:13 AM
 #81

Somebody is getting dangerously close to the Godwin Wall here. Everything about this character screams scammer, and I say that with extensive background in identifying, and prosecuting those who use electronic means to fleece others.

Study his posts closely, you will find classic patterns that crop up in just about every online scam, from the protestations of innocence to the overly aggressive defense and turning turtle when the facts start to fly. If his claims to be college student (although one who spent too much time star gazing and not enough learning to craft a coherent sentence) didn't bear out, I would expect his IP to resolve to Lagos or Moscow, where lots of like-minded criminals use free wi-fi, and share connections, and victim leads with each other. They also tend to pimp their scam in a very similar manner, and don't think anybody will read a time stamp.

The ICE confiscation is an obvious fake, real ICE confiscations direct viewers to the Federal Court that ordered the seizure, and for those of you who concern themselves about exposure, log your IP with each hit for correlation with both known associates of the alleged perpetrator, and to find potential victims. And know that the current record of recovering losses to sites that have actually been seized, prosecuted and ordered to pay restitution is running less than half a cent on the dollar in the New York District, which has exponentially more prosecutions in this arena than any other part of the country.

And for our friends outside of the US who hope to recover using American law enforcement? Bon chance, mes amis, you are, as they say, shit outta luck. Non citizens who have been stolen from by Americans almost never recover a penny. And the US authorities always funnel any such potential recovery through the tax authorities in your home country. It's a treaty thing.

Best suggestion? If you have documented losses, and you feel that this evidence is compelling, bring charges. Contact your local police, swear out your complaint, and make damn sure they know you will cooperate as they work with the local authorities in California to investigate. One claim won't make a difference, 10,000 from around the country will. And then bring civil proceedings against those who you believe are responsible. Most jurisdictions will allow a small claims action to be brought pro se, and will allow claims up to $5,000 depending on your local law. Having somebody served several hundred times to appear in court around the country to answer charges, or risk several hundred default judgements that can be turned over to his local police for collection is a delightful way to ruin a thief's day. Realize a judge will know absolutely nothing about your case, but a clean cut appearance, and piles of documentation showing that you, the clean cut citizen, voter and all round nice person, sent your hard earned shekels, simmoleons or scam-coins using the advice provided by this self-proclaimed "expert" who touted the benefits of following his advice. He, the tout in this case, is a conniving snake oil salesman, who doesn't like his mother, claims to be an artist, and living in California, probably has a history of degeneracy and narcotics use. Hizzoner would be doing society a solid by finding against this scoundrel, and although you know your chances are slim, you want to see justice done to save little old ladies, like your own beloved mother, from the clutches of this heathen bastard.

Presto, default judgement. Send the paperwork to a process server in his jurisdiction, wait for the three attempts to get him served and satisfy his debt, and you can have the sheriff seize assets, like his bank accounts, his furniture, and his mining rig. Maybe even a garnishment against the proceeds of his summer internship?  Thinks he wants the school to find out what he REALLY spent his summer doing?

Use the system to your benefit- its what you pay for.

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The Electric Monk
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September 29, 2011, 09:33:46 AM
 #82

What an interesting combination of contradictory statements and bad advice!  Something about that last post rubs me the wrong way, so I'm going to break it down.  The post starts out by bashing the scammer to earn trust, then gives bad advice that will not likely lead to prosecution.  The first problem is that he suggests both that the scammer resides outside of the US, then says that people outside the US are SOL.  This is contradictory.

I would expect his IP to resolve to Lagos or Moscow.

Non citizens who have been stolen from by Americans almost never recover a penny.

This makes me think LoupGaroux has unsaid intentions, or at least doesn't know what he's talking about.  Then he recommends that people contact local police instead of the FBI experts in internet crime or his school police who would be better able to assess the situation locally.  This comes across to me as intentionally bad advice and sets off alarm bells.

Upisdown's linguistic skill degraded rapidly before LoupGaroux's post, which pointed out that he has poor language skills.  It seems like someone is trying to distinguish themselves as a different author.  Look at upsidedown's earlier posts, he knows how to speak proper English.  He describes 'paradox' as a 'literary device' here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24829.msg308325#msg308325

Upisdown took the same break from bitcointalk.org.  Sept 5/6 - Sept 27/28.  LoupGaraux also began posting on this topic hours after upisdown left.

Finally, LoupGaroux reports having other personas here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15672.msg507350#msg507350

...and LoupGaraux means werewolf, which has traditional ties to the moon.  Very clever!

If this is MrMoon, of course he would influence people to report to local police instead of the FBI experts on internet crime.  Even if it's not Mr Moon, this is a federal matter, not a local matter.  Report directly to his school police: dmmalloy@ucdavis.edu or to the FBI here: http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
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September 29, 2011, 10:04:16 AM
 #83

If people put the same amount of effort into finding out who they're dealing with before doing business with these ventures as they do into trying to locate that information after the horse has bolted, half of these dramas wouldn't happen in the first place.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 29, 2011, 10:08:09 AM
 #84

If people put the same amount of effort into finding out who they're dealing with before doing business with these ventures as they do into trying to locate that information after the horse has bolted, half of these dramas wouldn't happen in the first place.

I wonder if people said that after Enron.  Some of us did put effort into that before the indecent, but we are dealing with a semi-anonymous currency.  Plus, at one point Moonco.in was the only exchange for Solidcoin, so even if you investigated, there was no shopping around.  Rape victims are often told they shouldn't have dressed a certain way, car thefts could have been avoided by parking elsewhere.  You can look at any crime and twist it so that the victim is to blame.
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September 29, 2011, 10:44:56 AM
 #85

If people put the same amount of effort into finding out who they're dealing with before doing business with these ventures as they do into trying to locate that information after the horse has bolted, half of these dramas wouldn't happen in the first place.

I wonder if people said that after Enron.

They certainly did.  There were even analysts who questioned whether Enron was all smoke and mirrors before it collapsed.  Even some accountants at the firms signing off on Enron's financials raised questions about what was really going on.  The very people - the analysts and the accounting firms - who were supposed to be putting Enron under scrutiny, were feeding at its trough and looking the other way.

By pure chance, The Smartest Guys in the Room was on TV here the other night.  It remains a compelling story, but the fact that the whole sub-prime mortgage collapse thing was able to happen in a post-Enron world convinces me that people really are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 29, 2011, 10:53:06 AM
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They certainly did.  There were even analysts who questioned whether Enron was all smoke and mirrors before it collapsed.  Even some accountants at the firms signing off on Enron's financials raised questions about what was really going on.  The very people - the analysts and the accounting firms - who were supposed to be putting Enron under scrutiny, were feeding at its trough and looking the other way.

By pure chance, The Smartest Guys in the Room was on TV here the other night.  It remains a compelling story, but the fact that the whole sub-prime mortgage collapse thing was able to happen in a post-Enron world convinces me that people really are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

My point is, no matter how well known the entity is, crimes like that will be committed, and guys like you will find a way to blame the victim.  You could probably look at most fatal shootings and find a part during the victim's day they should have done differently to avoid it.  Sometimes it's just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but if you aren't a victim you can enjoy a sense of intellectual superiority, right?
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September 29, 2011, 11:09:39 AM
 #87

At this point I hope the police come because I haven't committed a crime and it would be easy for me to prove it (considering I have been doing a field internship most of the summer).
I'm interested in knowing if you are mr_moon, not whether you've committed a crime. It's entirely possible mr_moon got hacked or otherwise lost control of the server containing the wallet and is handling the situation badly. If that is the case I'd prefer he just come out and help with fund tracking - wallet addresses, etc from backups he should have. mr_moon said he was traveling when the server originally went down so whether you were on a field internship or not doesn't affect your likelihood of being or knowing mr_moon.
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September 29, 2011, 02:56:24 PM
 #88

@ElectricMonk- I can assure you that I am not upis, or in any way related to the moonie business, other than as an observer on the sidelines who likes to see criminals get taken down when they rip people off.

I am in fact, just a minor, minor newcomer to the bitcoin world, with two whole rigs and delusions of growth, fame and fortune. I suggest contacting your local police, in the US, because the FBI experts in Internet crime will not have two seconds to consider this issue. They are busy looking at the billions of dollars that are flowing around the internet in criminal enterprise, and chuckle politely when told about $20,000 losses, and consign the case to the "well that was a stupid place to put your money" pile and flag the complaint to see if there are several other thousand that they might actually get some traction on. My thoughts were on taking action, not blowing rhetorical smoke up people's asses. For those who want to do something, a local complaint is the basic first step. Using the FBI official placebo form is an utter waste of time. Calling the UC Davis police, while a good way to vent, will have no effect. Nothing that has been discussed in this thread suggests that any criminal enterprise happened through any agency of UC Davis. None of the strikingly competent investigators who have done their homework on this issue have said anything about using school computers, school facilities, or any other element of the school in this effort. The UCD police will ask if the crime happened on campus, or involved campus related computers, and then tell you to call your local police. They might write upis a ticket if he parks illegally on campus, but they sure won't give a damn about your missing mooncoins or anything else that they can't wrap a nightstick around.

Thanks for reviewing all of my posts, I do claim to have different personae- although the allegorical lycanthropic link to the moon is a charming thought, it is pure coincidence. I started using that handle after watching the film, Pacte des Loups. You will find me mining as the Tiki God on some pools, so I can also be associated with tossing virgins into volcanoes; you can find all sorts of nasty allegations about the state of my mental health on a variety of ultra liberal forums where I throw stones and post agit-prop under the pseudonym "ronin"; and if you really want a laugh you can find my work with 419eater.com under the name Toussaint Tatsugi.

My IP, when I forget to run through Tor, will resolve to the suburbs of Chicago. Sorry to be the prick to your bubble, but no mr moon here. Thanks for playing.

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September 29, 2011, 03:29:48 PM
 #89

Remember:

Innocence Proves Nothing
The Electric Monk
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September 29, 2011, 03:35:36 PM
 #90

@ElectricMonk- I can assure you that I am not upis, or in any way related to the moonie business, other than as an observer on the sidelines who likes to see criminals get taken down when they rip people off.

The FBI has shown interest in cryptocurrency, and I don't think they would ignore such a scam.  You might not be him, but your post still doesn't make sense.  You suggested non-Americans should leave it be because it was an American, and that Americans should talk to their local police instead of the FBI because... it was a Russian? 
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September 29, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
 #91

Calling the UC Davis police, while a good way to vent, will have no effect. Nothing that has been discussed in this thread suggests that any criminal enterprise happened through any agency of UC Davis. None of the strikingly competent investigators who have done their homework on this issue have said anything about using school computers, school facilities, or any other element of the school in this effort. The UCD police will ask if the crime happened on campus, or involved campus related computers, and then tell you to call your local police. They might write upis a ticket if he parks illegally on campus, but they sure won't give a damn about your missing mooncoins or anything else that they can't wrap a nightstick around.

One of the IRC IP addresses resolved to an on campus location. Plus, most universities are interested if their students are committing federal crimes since it would result in egg on their face if they gave a degree to a felon. Both the FBI or the USPIS can investigate wire fraud, so a polite note to either of them would also be productive. Filing a local police report would be useful for documenting evidence for a civil claim.

@ElectricMonk: the original sentence (a very meandering one in your defense) was:
If his claims to be college student (although one who spent too much time star gazing and not enough learning to craft a coherent sentence) didn't bear out, I would expect his IP to resolve to Lagos or Moscow

boiled down it yields
If his claims to be college student didn't bear out, I would expect his IP to resolve to Lagos or Moscow

He was trying to say that upisdown resembles the classic Nigerian or Russian scammer archetype. When he says "I would expect", it means that if he had to guess (without foreknowledge of the where the IP address resolves to) he would guess Nigeria or Russia.


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The Electric Monk
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September 29, 2011, 04:04:48 PM
 #92

He was trying to say that upisdown resembles the classic Nigerian or Russian scammer archetype. When he says "I would expect", it means that if he had to guess (without foreknowledge of the where the IP address resolves to) he would guess Nigeria or Russia.

Ok, that makes sense.
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September 29, 2011, 04:12:19 PM
 #93

I love the internet!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0737768/plotsummary

Quote
Plot Summary for
"The Untouchables" Mr. Moon (1961)

Melanthos Moon is a San Francisco art and antique dealer who manages to hijack a large supply of the special paper used to print U.S. Currency. He then arranges to spring from Leavenworth prison master counterfeiter Hans Dreiser to engrave the plates to produce the money. Eliot Ness and the Untouchables are soon on to him having followed Moon's henchman Benny Joplin back to his Oakland, California home. With the phony money available, Moon then approaches Chicago mobster Frank Nitti with an offer of $100 million split 50/50 with Nitti distributing the cash. Ness and his men are out to get one of the nearly perfect bills to get the serial number and stop the distribution of the cash before it starts. Written by garykmcd
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September 29, 2011, 04:19:43 PM
 #94

I love the internet!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0737768/plotsummary

Quote
Plot Summary for
"The Untouchables" Mr. Moon (1961)

Melanthos Moon is a San Francisco art and antique dealer who manages to hijack a large supply of the special paper used to print U.S. Currency. He then arranges to spring from Leavenworth prison master counterfeiter Hans Dreiser to engrave the plates to produce the money. Eliot Ness and the Untouchables are soon on to him having followed Moon's henchman Benny Joplin back to his Oakland, California home. With the phony money available, Moon then approaches Chicago mobster Frank Nitti with an offer of $100 million split 50/50 with Nitti distributing the cash. Ness and his men are out to get one of the nearly perfect bills to get the serial number and stop the distribution of the cash before it starts. Written by garykmcd

Are you saying that Mr Verdun is actually Victor Buono?  Grin

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September 29, 2011, 04:23:49 PM
 #95

I love the internet!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0737768/plotsummary

Quote
Plot Summary for
"The Untouchables" Mr. Moon (1961)

Melanthos Moon is a San Francisco art and antique dealer who manages to hijack a large supply of the special paper used to print U.S. Currency. He then arranges to spring from Leavenworth prison master counterfeiter Hans Dreiser to engrave the plates to produce the money. Eliot Ness and the Untouchables are soon on to him having followed Moon's henchman Benny Joplin back to his Oakland, California home. With the phony money available, Moon then approaches Chicago mobster Frank Nitti with an offer of $100 million split 50/50 with Nitti distributing the cash. Ness and his men are out to get one of the nearly perfect bills to get the serial number and stop the distribution of the cash before it starts. Written by garykmcd

Are you saying that Mr Verdun is actually Victor Buono?  Grin

Wow there, bud! I know where you're going with this. You think that all because Buono looks like Bruno, that I somehow have a part in all this. I'm done with Bitcoin!

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September 29, 2011, 04:28:35 PM
 #96

@Electric- I missed the IP hit on a campus computer, that makes the UCD police a much better resource, but the bottom line is the FBI, while they do maintain a reporting infrastructure, don't devote any appreciable resources to a crime counted in tens of thousands of dollars in a theoretical currency that has just popped up on their radar. Imagine the prosecutor trying to justify the charges to a US Attorney by explaining the the value stolen was based on hash function solutions in a distributed network, and that value established by pure market forces generated real time in a peer to peer virtual trading floor. That, coincidentally, they have no oversight on, has no regulatory authority, has no precedence in law, and is operated pretty much anonymously.

That is a giant can of caveat emptor that they will never trouble themselves with. They can't legislate it, they can't slap handcuffs on it, and they can't get media time telling the world how great of a job they did attacking it, let alone being able to explain it. You sent some funny crypto money analog off to an online thingy that sort of said you would get some sort of return back in more or other crypto money analog, and then the thingy disappeared, and the nicknamed people behind the thingy claim that somebody else stole their nicknames and turned off the gizmo that held all the crypto money analog. Imagine your local square-jawed, earnest, clean-cut G-Man, taking that report and telling his boss that he has a crime to solve. Or, they can look for real bank robbers. Where do you think the energy is going to get spent?

In terms of taking action, outing the alleged criminal in public discussion is probably the best path, tar and feather their activities with righteous fury. If you want to follow that up with action, filing a report with your local law enforcement will get you a lot further than doing it remotely with the cops where the perp lives. I propose civil actions because you can win by default, and then the system will work for you, albeit at a glacial pace. And one day, probably a couple of years from now, the sheriffs will seize his property, have a sheriff's auction and the proceeds will be split up by the creditors, and you might be able to implement a garnishment against his wages, assuming he has any non sub-rosa income.

My caution for non-Americans was just a sad statement that our law enforcement will do very little to resolve their claims, and if by some stretch of the imagination they actually were able to prevail against the scum who did this, any restitution would be treaty-bound to run through the fingers of their respective national taxing authorities before they ever saw the remaining crumbs.

And yes, I do tend to craft ridiculously meandering sentences. Editing out the snarky parenthetical asides makes my thoughts far more cogent, but far diminished in terms of the intellectually rich experience of enjoying them.

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September 29, 2011, 04:51:21 PM
 #97

Quote
This message comes up if you try to visit moonco.in in Chrome...
This is probably not the site you are looking for! You attempted to reach moonco.in, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as www.ice.gov. This may be caused by a misconfiguration on the server or by something more serious. An attacker on your network could be trying to get you to visit a fake (and potentially harmful) version of moonco.in. You should not proceed.
Help me understand When you connect to a secure website, the server hosting that site presents your browser with something called a "certificate" to verify its identity. This certificate contains identity information, such as the address of the website, which is verified by a third party that your computer trusts. By checking that the address in the certificate matches the address of the website, it is possible to verify that you are securely communicating with the website you intended, and not a third party (such as an attacker on your network).
In this case, the address listed in the certificate does not match the address of the website your browser tried to go to. One possible reason for this is that your communications are being intercepted by an attacker who is presenting a certificate for a different website, which would cause a mismatch. Another possible reason is that the server is set up to return the same certificate for multiple websites, including the one you are attempting to visit, even though that certificate is not valid for all of those websites. Google Chrome can say for sure that you reached www.ice.gov, but cannot verify that that is the same site as moonco.in which you intended to reach. If you proceed, Chrome will not check for any further name mismatches. In general, it is best not to proceed past this point.

So, ICE doesn't care the least that people can use their name whenever they want?

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September 29, 2011, 04:58:44 PM
 #98

Imagine your local square-jawed, earnest, clean-cut G-Man, taking that report and telling his boss that he has a crime to solve. Or, they can look for real bank robbers. Where do you think the energy is going to get spent?

 Undecided  That is a problem with notifying any law enforcement agency including local police and FBI.  I can't imagine trying to explain this to local police and expecting them to take action.  I doubt they know or care about what Bitcoin is, and the scammer probably isn't in this region.  At least the FBI has made attempts to learn about bitcoin, and has a mechanism for reporting such crimes.  If enough people report there, I'm sure they will take action.  The UC Davis police have other reasons to investigate.  Regarding the value of what was stolen, I'm pretty sure it was more than a typical bank robbery.
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September 30, 2011, 02:20:10 AM
 #99

I am not involved in any of this. I do not appreciate the threats thrown around considering how flimsy the evidence is.

I do have shared internet in my apartment/dorm (It's included in the rent, like our water), and I think its far more plausible someone else in Davis knows about bitcoins rather then me being some mastermind computer scammer. I also don't know how to program (not unless you count html/css) so that makes it a rather odd accusation, I study plant sciences (breeding) and do design work (I'm an artist).

If you are still convinced it is me, I encourage you to use legal channels because I'm not guilty and have nothing to hide from the police.

I would not appreciate being harassed because I have the same IP as some reported scammer (when in college towns most internet arrangements are shared). Comcast gives out dynamic IP addresses. Isn't it possible too that some computer scientist here in Davis could have the ability to hack wireless signal of an apartment/dorm and use their internet?

Full disclosure: I had used mooncoin too because it is open source (I love the idea of open source anything see:artwork) and I had lost some print money (not much). I did speak with him when the site was just btc poker site posted on reddit, he was talkative and seemed nice. I hadn't talked to him since.

I have sold art work for bitcoins, a fair amount, and I believe everyone of my customers has only positive feedback.

Edit: The above post shows me logged into irc at the same time as mr_moon but with a different ip. We are clearly different people, this should be enough lay to rest any claims that I am mr_moon.


 





Christian Verdun (T) upisdown.809 cwverdun@ucdavis.edu


Just admit it.

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September 30, 2011, 04:14:23 PM
 #100

I would like to remind everyone of California Law

"California Penal Code Section 653m

(a) Every person who, with intent to annoy, telephones or
makes contact by means of an electronic communication device with
another and addresses to or about the other person any obscene
language or addresses to the other person any threat to inflict
injury to the person or property of the person addressed or any
member of his or her family, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Nothing in
this subdivision shall apply to telephone calls or electronic
contacts made in good faith.
   (b) Every person who, with intent to annoy or harass, makes
repeated telephone calls or makes repeated contact by means of an
electronic communication device, or makes any combination of calls or
contact, to another person is, whether or not conversation ensues
from making the telephone call or contact by means of an electronic
communication device, guilty of a misdemeanor. Nothing in this
subdivision shall apply to telephone calls or electronic contacts
made in good faith or during the ordinary course and scope of
business.
   (c) Any offense committed by use of a telephone may be deemed to
have been committed when and where the telephone call or calls were
made or received. Any offense committed by use of an electronic
communication device or medium, including the Internet, may be deemed
to have been committed when and where the electronic communication
or communications were originally sent or first viewed by the
recipient.
   (d) Subdivision (a) or (b) is violated when the person acting with
intent to annoy makes a telephone call or contact by means of an
electronic communication device requesting a return call and performs
the acts prohibited under subdivision (a) or (b) upon receiving the
return call.
   (e) Subdivision (a) or (b) is violated when a person knowingly
permits any telephone or electronic communication under the person's
control to be used for the purposes prohibited by those subdivisions.
   (f) If probation is granted, or the execution or imposition of
sentence is suspended, for any person convicted under this section,
the court may order as a condition of probation that the person
participate in counseling.
   (g) For purposes of this section, the term "electronic
communication device" includes, but is not limited to, telephones,
cellular phones, computers, video recorders, facsimile machines,
pagers, personal digital assistants, smartphones, and any other
device that transfers signs, signals, writing, images, sounds, or
data. "Electronic communication device" also includes, but is not
limited to, videophones, TTY/TDD devices, and all other devices used
to aid or assist communication to or from deaf or disabled persons.
"Electronic communication" has the same meaning as the term defined
in Subsection 12 of Section 2510 of Title 18 of the United States
Code."

This is not a warning. In our country you cannot harass someone based on the vague assumption they wronged you - if you have evidence take it to the authorities. I'm getting caught up in unfair vigilante justice, internet detectives have been wrong in the past and they are wrong now. This has gone beyond trolling, I'm being made a convenient scapegoat despite clear evidence of me being on a different IP as the same time as the supposed scammer.
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