Possible Guide on how to "disable" the bitcoin network(?)

[TwinWinNerD]

1. Aquire some BTC
2. Setup a node and write a software that can mass-send transactions.
3. Send BTC between your own accounts using the minimum fee (or slightly above)
4. Send more transactions per second than the network can handle. 7 TPS at start, 70 TPS later, XXX TPS in the future.
5. Watch as the network struggles with including transactions into blocks.
6. See the value plumment and all people cry

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[RGBKey]

If it was this easy, people would have done it already.

[TwinWinNerD]

If it was this easy, people would have done it already.

Where is my missconception?

[MoonShadow]

Others have tried this.  I welcome you to blow all your funds on the attempt.  The miners will appriciate the donation, and you will quickly learn that you can't really outrun the bitcoin network.  Have fun!

[MoonShadow]

If it was this easy, people would have done it already.

Where is my missconception?

Would you prefer to send me half of your stash, and I'll just tell you?  Or would you prefer to give it a try, blow everything you have and see the results for yourself?

[MakeBelieve]

Why are people so interested in destroying Bitcoin? Now that Bitcoin has grown its stronger than ever.

[TwinWinNerD]

Others have tried this.  I welcome you to blow all your funds on the attempt.  The miners will appriciate the donation, and you will quickly learn that you can't really outrun the bitcoin network.  Have fun!

Well, lets do some math on this:

Current network can handle 7 TPS. Let us assume that 1 TPS is happening independent of our spam. That leaves us with 6*60*60*24 = 518400 Transactions per day

Min fee is 0.0001 --> 518400*0.0001= 51,84 BTC/day

Now lets say that we are a highroller that wants:

- this method of attack fixed
- wants to buy cheap within the panic selloff

1 day Network stillstand for ~60 BTC doesn't seem too expensive does it?

[TwinWinNerD]

Why are people so interested in destroying Bitcoin? Now that Bitcoin has grown its stronger than ever.

I don't want to destroy it, i want the problems fixed because i have a fairly huge stack of those coins myself!

[franky1]

satoshi dice already tried this with very small amounts of satoshi's. yet my coins sending to exchanges, friends, and people i invested in still reached the recipients ontime.

now with the 5k satoshi dust limit. to attempt to repeat such a task you would need to spend
5k sat x 7 per second for 600 seconds

my maths makes that 0.21000000 btc every 10 minutes. are you truly saying that you wish to spend $200 every 10 minutes, purely to delay transactions. and if so, how long could you hold on and continue such a practice knowing that your transaction fee's would slowly eat up all your coin.

wouldnt it be more beneficial to use bitcoin instead of abuse bitcoin?

edit
and as for the 7/s limits. i believe gavin and his team are already working on it, so chill out and dont waste your funds. or infact, waste your funds by paying gavin the amount you want to lose, and ask him to concentrate on the block limit, in exchange for that sum

and as your maths shows. if your willing to spend $60k for one days downtime. how about give $60k to gavin

[TwinWinNerD]

satoshi dice already tried this with very small amounts of satoshi's. yet my coins sending to exchanges, friends, and people i invested in still reached the recipients ontime.

now with the 5k satoshi dust limit. to attempt to repeat such a task you would need to spend
5k sat x 7 per second for 600 seconds

my maths makes that 0.21000000 btc every 10 minutes. are you truly saying that you wish to spend $200 every 10 minutes, purely to delay transactions. and if so, how long could you hold on and continue such a practice knowing that your transaction fee's would slowly eat up all your coin.

wouldnt it be more beneficial to use bitcoin instead of abuse bitcoin?

I posted my math above, but you don't "spend" 5k satoshis in addition to the fee. You just send to an address you control.

My guess is, if the whole network isn't able to spend their coins for X days, then people would get panicy on the exchanges and you could make a fortune with betting against BTC.

[MakeBelieve]

satoshi dice already tried this with very small amounts of satoshi's. yet my coins sending to exchanges, friends, and people i invested in still reached the recipients ontime.

now with the 5k satoshi dust limit. to attempt to repeat such a task you would need to spend
5k sat x 7 per second for 600 seconds

my maths makes that 0.21000000 btc every 10 minutes. are you truly saying that you wish to spend $200 every 10 minutes, purely to delay transactions. and if so, how long could you hold on and continue such a practice knowing that your transaction fee's would slowly eat up all your coin.

wouldnt it be more beneficial to use bitcoin instead of abuse bitcoin?

I posted my math above, but you don't "spend" 5k satoshis in addition to the fee. You just send to an address you control.

My guess is, if the whole network isn't able to spend their coins for X days, then people would get panicy on the exchanges and you could make a fortune with betting against BTC.

This wouldn't work this has been tried and failed any way so you don't have to worry about that.

[MoonShadow]

Others have tried this.  I welcome you to blow all your funds on the attempt.  The miners will appriciate the donation, and you will quickly learn that you can't really outrun the bitcoin network.  Have fun!

Well, lets do some math on this:

Current network can handle 7 TPS. Let us assume that 1 TPS is happening independent of our spam. That leaves us with 6*60*60*24 = 518400 Transactions per day

Min fee is 0.0001 --> 518400*0.0001= 51,84 BTC/day

Now lets say that we are a highroller that wants:

- this method of attack fixed
- wants to buy cheap within the panic selloff

1 day Network stillstand for ~60 BTC doesn't seem too expensive does it?

It's not a problem.  Spamming the network with valid transactions is not a valid attack vector.  When the developers say that the network can presently handle 7 tps, they mean that is how fast the network can process them.  The network doesn't have to process the 8th transaction per second, it can simply ignore it, which is what it does.  It happens all of the time, in fact.  If you don't add a fee, your transaction is the first to be ignored as a matter of principle.  If you add a minimum fee, your transaction is the first among the fee paying transactions in the queue to be ignored in favor of higher fees.  It's a bidding market, dude.  If the network is under stress, the cost of a transaction being processed sooner rather than later increases, and the lower fee paying transactions have to wait for the network to catch up.  If your transaction is ingored for two weeks, it disappears from the queue and you have to resend it.  Furthurmore, if you send a transaction that is dependent upon another one being processed first, the second one doesn't even propagate across the network at all, because any node besides your modified client will consider it invalid until the preceeding transaction makes it into a block.

Really, you can't break this thing.  So many before you have tried, using values when the value of a bitcoin was still under a nickel.  Your 60 BTC example isn't shit.

There, are you ready to send me my 30 BTC consultation fee yet?  Or do you need more?

[TwinWinNerD]

Others have tried this.  I welcome you to blow all your funds on the attempt.  The miners will appriciate the donation, and you will quickly learn that you can't really outrun the bitcoin network.  Have fun!

Well, lets do some math on this:

Current network can handle 7 TPS. Let us assume that 1 TPS is happening independent of our spam. That leaves us with 6*60*60*24 = 518400 Transactions per day

Min fee is 0.0001 --> 518400*0.0001= 51,84 BTC/day

Now lets say that we are a highroller that wants:

- this method of attack fixed
- wants to buy cheap within the panic selloff

1 day Network stillstand for ~60 BTC doesn't seem too expensive does it?

It's not a problem.  Spamming the network with valid transactions is not a valid attack vector.  When the developers say that the network can presently handle 7 tps, they mean that is how fast the network can process them.  The network doesn't have to process the 8th transaction per second, it can simply ignore it, which is what it does.  It happens all of the time, in fact.  If you don't add a fee, your transaction is the first to be ignored as a matter of principle.  If you add a minimum fee, your transaction is the first among the fee paying transactions in the queue to be ignored in favor of higher fees.  It's a bidding market, dude.  If the network is under stress, the cost of a transaction being processed sooner rather than later increases, and the lower fee paying transactions have to wait for the network to catch up.  If your transaction is ingored for two weeks, it disappears from the queue and you have to resend it.  Furthurmore, if you send a transaction that is dependent upon another one being processed first, the second one doesn't even propagate across the network at all, because any node besides your modified client will consider it invalid until the preceeding transaction makes it into a block.

Really, you can't break this thing.  So many before you have tried, using values when the value of a bitcoin was still under a nickel.  Your 60 BTC example isn't shit.

There, are you ready to send me my 30 BTC consultation fee yet?  Or do you need more?

But you say it yourself, the 8th transaction per second gets ignored. If 1 of 8 transactions is a legit one, than there is a 12.5% chance that everyone that wants to send something gets ignored. If we spam 14 TPS than that increases to 50% at no additional cost for the spammer. (the ignored transactions are just reversed, no fee paid)

Also @ bidding market, you can also increase the fee of the spam, this makes the attack more expensive, but in the end you can make a big profit if you are a highroller.

You say that so many have tried. How many managed to get the TPS above 10?

[MakeBelieve]

Even if this was possible what woud you do to prevent it?

[TwinWinNerD]

Even if this was possible what woud you do to prevent it?

Increase the max blocksize and introduce a methode to bootsstrap the blockchain, so that it doesn't bloat

[MoonShadow]

Even if this was possible what woud you do to prevent it?

Increase the max blocksize and introduce a methode to bootsstrap the blockchain, so that it doesn't bloat

They are already working on both of those issues.  Go help them.

[MoonShadow]

Others have tried this.  I welcome you to blow all your funds on the attempt.  The miners will appriciate the donation, and you will quickly learn that you can't really outrun the bitcoin network.  Have fun!

Well, lets do some math on this:

Current network can handle 7 TPS. Let us assume that 1 TPS is happening independent of our spam. That leaves us with 6*60*60*24 = 518400 Transactions per day

Min fee is 0.0001 --> 518400*0.0001= 51,84 BTC/day

Now lets say that we are a highroller that wants:

- this method of attack fixed
- wants to buy cheap within the panic selloff

1 day Network stillstand for ~60 BTC doesn't seem too expensive does it?

It's not a problem.  Spamming the network with valid transactions is not a valid attack vector.  When the developers say that the network can presently handle 7 tps, they mean that is how fast the network can process them.  The network doesn't have to process the 8th transaction per second, it can simply ignore it, which is what it does.  It happens all of the time, in fact.  If you don't add a fee, your transaction is the first to be ignored as a matter of principle.  If you add a minimum fee, your transaction is the first among the fee paying transactions in the queue to be ignored in favor of higher fees.  It's a bidding market, dude.  If the network is under stress, the cost of a transaction being processed sooner rather than later increases, and the lower fee paying transactions have to wait for the network to catch up.  If your transaction is ingored for two weeks, it disappears from the queue and you have to resend it.  Furthurmore, if you send a transaction that is dependent upon another one being processed first, the second one doesn't even propagate across the network at all, because any node besides your modified client will consider it invalid until the preceeding transaction makes it into a block.

Really, you can't break this thing.  So many before you have tried, using values when the value of a bitcoin was still under a nickel.  Your 60 BTC example isn't shit.

There, are you ready to send me my 30 BTC consultation fee yet?  Or do you need more?

But you say it yourself, the 8th transaction per second gets ignored. If 1 of 8 transactions is a legit one, than there is a 12.5% chance that everyone that wants to send something gets ignored. If we spam 14 TPS than that increases to 50% at no additional cost for the spammer. (the ignored transactions are just reversed, no fee paid)

Also @ bidding market, you can also increase the fee of the spam, this makes the attack more expensive, but in the end you can make a big profit if you are a highroller.

You say that so many have tried. How many managed to get the TPS above 10?

 If you are producing 14 tps from the same wallet.dat file, it's impossible for them to not be dependent upon each other.  So your first transaction must be processed before your 2nd, and so on.  You don't introduce a condition that you can delay anyone but yourself, althoug you can still manage to spend fees pretty fast.


As far how many times an attacker has been able to spam the netowrk beyond 7 tps, that has happened exactly once; and is the primary reason that the point delay system was put inot the network protocol for free transactions.  I was here when it happened, and I )as a user) didn't eve notice until it was all over.

[TwinWinNerD]

Even if this was possible what woud you do to prevent it?

Increase the max blocksize and introduce a methode to bootsstrap the blockchain, so that it doesn't bloat

They are already working on both of those issues.  Go help them.

I am currently not capable of doing so.

But back to the topic, is this following statement true?

"It is possible to slow down the processing time of transactions with this attack, although it is extremly expensive and not very practicable."

[TwinWinNerD]

 If you are producing 14 tps from the same wallet.dat file, it's impossible for them to not be dependent upon each other.  So your first transaction must be processed before your 2nd, and so on.  You don't introduce a condition that you can delay anyone but yourself, althoug you can still manage to spend fees pretty fast.

You can set up a couple of nodes and with enough BTC in stock you can always send fresh satoshis + the minfee.

[MoonShadow]

Even if this was possible what woud you do to prevent it?

Increase the max blocksize and introduce a methode to bootsstrap the blockchain, so that it doesn't bloat

They are already working on both of those issues.  Go help them.

I am currently not capable of doing so.

But back to the topic, is this following statement true?

"It is possible to slow down the processing time of transactions with this attack, although it is extremly expensive and not very practicable."

No it is not true.