the RISK of FPGA mining

[LTCMAXMYR]

1. centralization of development, only a few people can publish miner for FPGA. In the face of much lower than expected hashrate and profit, you can only be forced to accept.if the chip is locked to a KEY,it will have no resale value.ref to xilinx https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp1267-encryp-efuse-program.pdf

2. risk of open source, if open source, is likely to be taken by the third party to make  MPW  ASIC, which does not require much money , but return is much higher than FPGA.

3. risk of warranty, FPGA is quite different from GPU, it can not real-time monitoring the running state and cannot quickly adjust the frequency, when  you notice the running state exceeds the limit, it is late. Maintenance may be a big trouble , the FPGA is very expensive, if the FPGA chip burned, that is equal to the board scrap.

4.algo risk, altcoin developers may change the algorithm, GPU can quickly adapt to the new algorithm, but FPGA developers cannot be so fast ,when he worked hard to develop a new miner,the algorithm may change again.

At present, FPGA miner is unrealistic and some is obviously scam.electricity fee is not the main factor for altcoin mining.
all what you do is mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty,only GPU or CPU farm can taste the first fat meat.
mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.
ROI and electricity fee are not important, because GPU and CPU can bring dozens of times more revenue every year.

Keep your eyes open and don't fall into the trap.

[1715202386]

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[lunobird]

Another GPU maxamlist fear of his profits going to trash.

Gpu were never intended to process block so thinking this would be acceptable future hardware to deal with money is a novelty but false idea

Adapt or die GPU miners

[reb0rn21]

There are no GPU maximalist atm, GPU mining is also abused by large GPU farms that do no good

FPGA might even be end of POW, as big farms will harvest 90% now, as I don`t trust on FPGA open sourcing! (might happen for some but they all will be low profit as rest big evil farms will be even worst then bitmain!)

[vapourminer]

1. centralization of development, only a few people can publish miner for FPGA. In the face of much lower than expected hashrate and profit, you can only be forced to accept.

2. risk of open source, if open source, is likely to be taken by the third party to make  MPW  ASIC, which does not require much money , but return is much higher than FPGA.

3. risk of warranty, FPGA is quite different from GPU, it can not real-time monitoring the running state and cannot quickly adjust the frequency, when so you notice the running state exceeds the limit, it is late. Maintenance may be a big trouble , the FPGA is very expensive, if the FPGA chip burned, that is equal to the board scrap.

4.algo risk, altcoin developers may change the algorithm, GPU can quickly adapt to the new algorithm, but FPGA developers cannot be so fast ,when he worked hard to develop a new miner,the algorithm may change again.

At present, FPGA miner is unrealistic and some is obviously scam.electricity fee is not the main factor for altcoin mining.
[,,,]
ROI and electricity fee are not important, because GPU and CPU can bring dozens of times more revenue every year.

the main draw for me is power usage. my electric costs are high and fpgas are an answer to that.

1. as for developers, it seems most bitstreams will have a devfee, that incentives development.

2. sure but tapeout still takes time (2-3 months?) in which the fpga will rule. then change algo again perhaps.

3. true, easy to burn it up. so, run vetted bitstreams, observe proper cooling, do monthly maintenance.

4. for algo changes, depending on what changes in the algo i believe ive heard a few days for the new bitstream to come out with most of that time being compiling (or whatever its called) the new bitstream

but hey you may be right. i just ordered one, we will see how it goes. and yes i am aware i may of wasted 3.6k USD. if so oh well at least ill have a cool toy to learn VHDL on.

[senseless]

GPUs were never ideal for mining. Yes, they are reconfigurable, so are FPGA. The nice thing about the FPGA is that the performance ratio is much higher. On a POW network secured by FPGA the cost of entry for an ASIC is much higher for small players. Everyone is so busy worrying about bitmain they're not thinking about the smaller players out there who are developing extremely low cost high level ASICs. For example, the cost of entry for a 130 to 110nm ASIC might be UNDER $100,000 and it would have performance / power ratios multiples higher than a GPU (depending on the algo). At these high levels you can very quickly create, verify and print the design. But, when you compare the performance of a 110nm ASIC to a 16nm FPGA, the FPGA would blow it out of the water. Performance comparisons between ASICs and 16nm FPGA would probably start around 45->32nm. This means, if someone wanted to create an ASIC to mine on these coins they'll have to do so at least those levels. This increases the cost, time to delivery, and risk of failure [for the same reward].

What we are working on now is further reducing costs and what I want to see is these devices enter into the realm of GPU pricing. Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

There are no GPU maximalist atm, GPU mining is also abused by large GPU farms that do no good

FPGA might even be end of POW, as big farms will harvest 90% now, as I don`t trust on FPGA open sourcing! (might happen for some but they all will be low profit as rest big evil farms will be even worst then bitmain!)

We're selling these devices now at the lowest cost anyone has ever publicly or privately advertised these boards for, ever. We were able to obtain an amazing deal and instead of profit taking on that, we're passing it along. Be the change you want to see and support the change you want to see.

[MinedTangerine]

GPUs were never ideal for mining. Yes, they are reconfigurable, so are FPGA. The nice thing about the FPGA is that the performance ratio is much higher. On a POW network secured by FPGA the cost of entry for an ASIC is much higher for small players. Everyone is so busy worrying about bitmain they're not thinking about the smaller players out there who are developing extremely low cost high level ASICs. For example, the cost of entry for a 130 to 110nm ASIC might be UNDER $100,000 and it would have performance / power ratios multiples higher than a GPU (depending on the algo). And, at these high levels you can very quickly create, verify and print the design. But, when you compare the performance of a 110nm ASIC to a 16nm FPGA, the FPGA would blow it out of the water. Performance comparisons between ASICs and 16nm FPGA would probably start around 45->32nm. This means, if someone wanted to create an ASIC to mine on these coins they'll have to do so at least those levels. This increases the cost, time to delivery, and risk of failure.

What we are working on now is further reducing costs and what I want to see is to see these devices enter into the realm of GPU pricing. Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

There are no GPU maximalist atm, GPU mining is also abused by large GPU farms that do no good

FPGA might even be end of POW, as big farms will harvest 90% now, as I don`t trust on FPGA open sourcing! (might happen for some but they all will be low profit as rest big evil farms will be even worst then bitmain!)

We're selling these devices now at the lowest cost anyone has ever publicly or privately advertised these boards for, ever. We were able to obtain an amazing deal and instead of profit taking on that, we're passing it along. Be the change you want to see and support the change you want to see. Currently they are still to expensive. I would rather see weaker devices but in the price range of 1000$.

If you can do that senseless then hats down to you. I have nothing against FPGA (my main objection against ASICs are the companies that make them and their unethical pratices) but if you can lower the prices so that small time miners can enter the FPGA field, that would be really awesome.

[h311m4n]

GPUs were never ideal for mining. Yes, they are reconfigurable, so are FPGA. The nice thing about the FPGA is that the performance ratio is much higher. On a POW network secured by FPGA the cost of entry for an ASIC is much higher for small players. Everyone is so busy worrying about bitmain they're not thinking about the smaller players out there who are developing extremely low cost high level ASICs. For example, the cost of entry for a 130 to 110nm ASIC might be UNDER $100,000 and it would have performance / power ratios multiples higher than a GPU (depending on the algo). And, at these high levels you can very quickly create, verify and print the design. But, when you compare the performance of a 110nm ASIC to a 16nm FPGA, the FPGA would blow it out of the water. Performance comparisons between ASICs and 16nm FPGA would probably start around 45->32nm. This means, if someone wanted to create an ASIC to mine on these coins they'll have to do so at least those levels. This increases the cost, time to delivery, and risk of failure.

What we are working on now is further reducing costs and what I want to see is these devices enter into the realm of GPU pricing. Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

There are no GPU maximalist atm, GPU mining is also abused by large GPU farms that do no good

FPGA might even be end of POW, as big farms will harvest 90% now, as I don`t trust on FPGA open sourcing! (might happen for some but they all will be low profit as rest big evil farms will be even worst then bitmain!)

We're selling these devices now at the lowest cost anyone has ever publicly or privately advertised these boards for, ever. We were able to obtain an amazing deal and instead of profit taking on that, we're passing it along. Be the change you want to see and support the change you want to see.

I like that argument.

If everyone moves to FPGA, it'll come down to the same ratio as now. What I mean by that, is that you'll have FPG farms and small miners all on FPGA too, the revenues won't change for either of them.

Imagine one board is as fast as what, 4-5 miners. This is a no brainer to me, but still too expensive atm.

[melpheos]

GPUs were never ideal for mining. Yes, they are reconfigurable, so are FPGA. The nice thing about the FPGA is that the performance ratio is much higher. On a POW network secured by FPGA the cost of entry for an ASIC is much higher for small players. Everyone is so busy worrying about bitmain they're not thinking about the smaller players out there who are developing extremely low cost high level ASICs. For example, the cost of entry for a 130 to 110nm ASIC might be UNDER $100,000 and it would have performance / power ratios multiples higher than a GPU (depending on the algo). And, at these high levels you can very quickly create, verify and print the design. But, when you compare the performance of a 110nm ASIC to a 16nm FPGA, the FPGA would blow it out of the water. Performance comparisons between ASICs and 16nm FPGA would probably start around 45->32nm. This means, if someone wanted to create an ASIC to mine on these coins they'll have to do so at least those levels. This increases the cost, time to delivery, and risk of failure.

What we are working on now is further reducing costs and what I want to see is these devices enter into the realm of GPU pricing. Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

There are no GPU maximalist atm, GPU mining is also abused by large GPU farms that do no good

FPGA might even be end of POW, as big farms will harvest 90% now, as I don`t trust on FPGA open sourcing! (might happen for some but they all will be low profit as rest big evil farms will be even worst then bitmain!)

We're selling these devices now at the lowest cost anyone has ever publicly or privately advertised these boards for, ever. We were able to obtain an amazing deal and instead of profit taking on that, we're passing it along. Be the change you want to see and support the change you want to see.

Indeed, if FPGA become mainstream at "normal costs" it will recenter graphic cards to what it's supposed to do and reduce costs for graphic cards (i'm a gamer as well)
And it will be better for the planet overall which much lower power consumption

[LTCMAXMYR]

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue  is too low  compared to GPU using my method.

[senseless]

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue  is too low  compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

[Littledragons]

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

[LTCMAXMYR]

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue  is too low  compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

opencl for FPGA is just a dessert and may not be really useful. For example, it hasn't seen the true effect of lyra2z for many days, but it can be compiled in a few minutes on the GPU.

[melpheos]

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

Just the same we were able to mine bitcoin with CPU, then GPU, then ASIC.... Aaaaaaaaand it's gone
The only defense against ASIC and evil bitmain/Halong is dev trying hard to develop ProgPOW

[GPUHoarder]

The key to earn big money in altcoin mining is "mine at the beginning,at low network difficulty",only GPU or CPU farm can rush in at beginning.mine for few days and wait the rocket,you will earn more than mining a whole year.Get the most advanced GPU and CPU is primary task.FPGA may be suitable for long run,but the revenue  is too low  compared to GPU using my method.

You realize you can compile opencl code for fpga on sdaccel right?

opencl for FPGA is just a dessert and may not be really useful. For example, it hasn't seen the true effect of lyra2z for many days, but it can be compiled in a few minutes on the GPU.

On average it takes me about 1 day to make a hashcore for a new algorithm on the FPGA.

ALL the rest of the time is the "shell", and I'm not referring to senseless' shell but the code and drivers on the PC side, the FPGA/Logic interface and deserialization of command and control data, high bandwidth state passing or low bandwidth block+nonce passing, dynamic clock management, power and thermals, etc.

New algorithm - ~1 day to be up and running, heavily optimized over a few weeks just like GPU or CPU.

And this is me working solo. We will have a team of FPGA developers working on this. This is not the first move - making the VCU1525 available, this is part of an entire effort.

 

[fanatic26]

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

[senseless]

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

This is like saying its a really bad idea to use GPU miners because there are only a few mining programs that exist for it.
Think about it - if we are really concerned Claymore and a few of the devs who push CCminer could easily just lock it down and make it so we have to pay to play. This would actually be worthwhile IMO (and is what Claymore already does by using the dev-fee).

The fact is that tons of corporate entities actually use GPUs when they should be using FGPAs. This is simply a fact. It will quickly become a world in which we will all joke about the days in which we were mining with GPUs. Its just a fact of life. Tech goes forward and so do industries within the Tech sector.

Just the same we were able to mine bitcoin with CPU, then GPU, then ASIC.... Aaaaaaaaand it's gone
The only defense against ASIC and evil bitmain/Halong is dev trying hard to develop ProgPOW

I'm looking forward to ProgPOW+FPGA They make a better combination than you'd think.

[ragecage]

Let's give the video cards back to the gamers and use devices that are more suited for what we need in the crypto community.

naah, rejected. gpu has many advantages over fpga.
let exist coins for cpu, gpu, fpga and asics. and noone do not cross the line of others.

[realaccountakira]

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

What Claymore earns is probably ant food compared to what huge companies would pay to keep the best source code private. Why? Because it could be more costly for them not do so. If they have centralization of software they could be earning twice than what everyone else is. Thats a lot more than some 1 or 2% dev fee.

This is probably happening now and we just don't know it. #Claymore has a private version that mines 2x the speed.

[senseless]

Since there will be a variety of code for each different coin, I can see an FPGA market for software getting pretty nasty. the best code will be kept in house and it will hurt competition more than you would think

With limited number of devices in the market devs are incentivized to release their code. By having multiple devs in the same space it creates competition. Go look at some of claymore's ethereum addresses and tell me that it's not worth it for those who are able

What Claymore earns is probably ant food compared to what huge companies would pay to keep the best source code private. Why? Because it could be more costly for them not do so. If they have centralization of software they could be earning twice than what everyone else is. Thats a lot more than some 1 or 2% dev fee.

This is probably happening now and we just don't know it. #Claymore has a private version that mines 2x the speed.

As someone who secretly mined on FPGA for over a year and in a big way. I can say with absolute 100% certainty you're wrong.

[frostedace]

ROI and electricity fee are not important, because GPU and CPU can bring dozens of times more revenue every year.

Keep your eyes open and don't fall into the trap.

This guy sounds like he would run a profitable venture lol.