the RISK of FPGA mining

[senseless]

This is all pure FUD and nice talk....... we know as soon as HW stock is sold best profit algos will be done just for big farms....... ppl will start to curse and be mad...

I hope I am wrong but that is how its done

the released bitstream will get you ROI of +2 years or so , while the big one milk the coins and play stupid, and GPU miners cry someone is harvest their shit and no one has FPGA for it

PS: I still hope I be wrong, but I would not bet on that

Why is it, I have to substantiate my claims but no one else does?


it's ridiculous...

WHERES THE CODE?!!?
here...
WHERES THE PROOF?!?!
here...
WHERES THE MORE PROOF?!?!?
here...
WHERES THE EXTRA PROOF!?!!?
here..
I STILL DONT BELIEVE IT, GIVE ME MORE PROOF?!!?
here..
THIS IS ILLOGICAL, EXPLAIN IT TO ME?!?!
here...

then.....

"Uh ya, I don't have any proof this is a scam but I'm going to say it's a scam anyway because I'm a troll and I want to bring my FUD parade to town"..

There are too many independent individuals working on this and with intimate knowledge of it for it to be a scam. And, as we've publicly stated MANY MANY times. There will only be 5000 of these things to hit the markets. We'd like as many as possible to be in the hands of independent miners. But if the independent / small miners don't want them -- there's no doubt that the farms will.

I'm not going to make any claims as to profitability. I'm not a master of the mystic arts or even a financial advisor. What I will say is, we've provided very conservative numbers and we expect everyone to be very happy. However, we cannot control other players in the market, at least, not as much as we'd like to be able to.

Hopefully I won't get trolled for quoting Donald Rumsfeld... But..... "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

[reb0rn21]

Did you even read what I said, I don`t believe in open source for FPGA expecialy with xx big farms that will pay any developer out there, and we know there are just few ppl that will work on fpga, my personal opinion that just crumbs will be let out, profitable bitsream will be bought and only released when some over the developer head say he can.......

I also would like to be wrong and I hope... time will tell

[senseless]

Did you even read what I said, I don`t believe in open source for FPGA expecialy with xx big farms that will pay any developer out there, and we know there are just few ppl that will work on fpga, my personal opinion that just crumbs will be let out, profitable bitsream will be bought and only released when some over the developer head say he can.......

I also would like to be wrong and I hope... time will tell

Do you have anything to substantiate that claim?

I can show you a chat room with 30 fpga devs in it right now feverishly working away to provide bitstreams for the community. What can you show me?

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

I WILL get these FPGA to GPU pricing; or Xilinx (and Intel) is going to need to get a restraining order against me. I don't know how to give up, ask paypal.

[FFI2013]

Did you even read what I said, I don`t believe in open source for FPGA expecialy with xx big farms that will pay any developer out there, and we know there are just few ppl that will work on fpga, my personal opinion that just crumbs will be let out, profitable bitsream will be bought and only released when some over the developer head say he can.......

I also would like to be wrong and I hope... time will tell

Do you have anything to substantiate that claim?

I can show you a chat room with 30 fpga devs in it right now feverishly working away to provide bitstreams for the community. What can you show me?

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

I WILL get these FPGA to GPU pricing; or Xilinx (and Intel) is going to need to get a restraining order against me. I don't know how to give up, ask paypal.

I'm just asking how are fpga any different than asic they are expensive which excludes people from poorer countries getting them plus how is it going to save on power at first maybe but as the hashrate goes up so does difficulty so you need to add more miners also how are you going to get a company selling a 3000-4000 dollar piece of hardware to 700-800 and that's a high priced gpu.
Listen I'm not trying to bust balls here I'm all for power reduction it's the cost and we all know there's going to be greedy devs hiding in 10 or 15% Dev fees it was going on with zec, you look at things different because you have access to fpgas at a cost lower than most and know what your doing with them

[senseless]

I'm just asking how are fpga any different than asic they are expensive which excludes people from poorer countries getting them plus how is it going to save on power at first maybe but as the hashrate goes up so does difficulty so you need to add more miners also how are you going to get a company selling a 3000-4000 dollar piece of hardware to 700-800 and that's a high priced gpu.
Listen I'm not trying to bust balls here I'm all for power reduction it's the cost and we all know there's going to be greedy devs hiding in 10 or 15% Dev fees it was going on with zec, you look at things different because you have access to fpgas at a cost lower than most and know what your doing with them

an ASIC can only do one thing, what it was designed to do. A FPGA is like a GPU, it can do whatever you program it to do. It's even possible to program it in the same language used to program the GPU (OpenCL).

There will be competition in the space, we're providing a platform that will force developers to compete on performance and fee to stay relevant.

Yes, cost is still high. This is my focus right now. Dropping the cost of these devices. Our current offerings are just the first step in this process; considering that we've achieved 1/2 the retail price that others are selling them for, I think we did very well. But again, this is just the start.

edit: removed the bit about claymore because it was rumor and probably not true to start with. But, even if it's not, the general idea stands.

[FFI2013]

I'm just asking how are fpga any different than asic they are expensive which excludes people from poorer countries getting them plus how is it going to save on power at first maybe but as the hashrate goes up so does difficulty so you need to add more miners also how are you going to get a company selling a 3000-4000 dollar piece of hardware to 700-800 and that's a high priced gpu.
Listen I'm not trying to bust balls here I'm all for power reduction it's the cost and we all know there's going to be greedy devs hiding in 10 or 15% Dev fees it was going on with zec, you look at things different because you have access to fpgas at a cost lower than most and know what your doing with them

an ASIC can only do one thing, what it was designed to do. A FPGA is like a GPU, it can do whatever you program it to do. It's even possible to program it in the same language used to program the GPU (OpenCL).

There will be competition in the space, we're providing a platform that will force developers to compete on performance and fee to stay relevant. It's not going to be a situation like with claymore where he (as I understand the rumours) LOST THE SOURCE CODE but still continues to collect massive fees for something he doesn't even update (ClaymoreXMR).

Yes, cost is still high. This is my focus right now. Dropping the cost of these devices. Our current offerings are just the first step in this process; considering that we've achieved 1/2 the retail price that others are selling them for, I think we did very well. But again, this is just the start.

Thank you I appreciate you taking the time to explain things I'm against asic because they are centralized with bitmain running the show with them having kill switches and backed by the Chinese government things can only go one way theirs, my biggest issue with fpgas is the pricing and hopefully things will work out there needs to be hardware specifically for mining that can mine different algos but are available for anyone

[Alantre]

Granted there is risk in FPGA
But this takes some power back from asic manufacturers who are most likely running equipment like this or better.
once these can be scaled down nicely, they will replace gpu's entirely. and this was always going to happen. Gpu miners have already cut back on spending and will likely be deciding whether to get more invested into it, or less. The days of getting into mining at home with your 1 or 2 gpu's is not over, smaller cap coins with their own algos will get away from FPGA until they get big, just like ASICS.

Ultimately we will just have a middle ground between gpu's(hobbyist) and ASICS(large scale). and this first batch of miners will make a very small dent overall compared to asics for the next 6-12 months, So there is still time for gpu miners to all get their ROI.
But I would rather side with FPGA to slow down companies who use asics in house before releasing to market for massive gains

[tripolino]

FPGA is a joke , not real benefit!

[melpheos]

FPGA is a joke , not real benefit!

You mean 5-10x performance for the same power consumption as a GPU is a joke ?
Well you have some particular sense of humor

[chup]

You mean 5-10x performance for the same power consumption as a GPU is a joke ?
Well you have some particular sense of humor

Crypto space is too dynamic. Timing is everything. I was mining Bytom with GPU from the very beginning of mainnet. Now difficulty is higher and I'm holding long term what I mined. Did You do the same with FPGA?
As I like to be diversified (CPU, GPU, ASIC, trading), I would enter FPGA mining if I see realized plans of having number of developers interested, publishing algos fast enough and competing with fees over miners.

[melpheos]

You mean 5-10x performance for the same power consumption as a GPU is a joke ?
Well you have some particular sense of humor

Crypto space is too dynamic. Timing is everything. I was mining Bytom with GPU from the very beginning of mainnet. Now difficulty is higher and I'm holding long term what I mined. Did You do the same with FPGA?
As I like to be diversified (CPU, GPU, ASIC, trading), I would enter FPGA mining if I see realized plans of having number of developers interested, publishing algos fast enough and competing with fees over miners.

FPGA for home miner will be used for established coin on established algo.
Developpers who work for themselves can produce the bitstream and mine without publishing their work and can adapt to new algorithm faster.

[FFI2013]

Granted there is risk in FPGA
But this takes some power back from asic manufacturers who are most likely running equipment like this or better.
once these can be scaled down nicely, they will replace gpu's entirely. and this was always going to happen. Gpu miners have already cut back on spending and will likely be deciding whether to get more invested into it, or less. The days of getting into mining at home with your 1 or 2 gpu's is not over, smaller cap coins with their own algos will get away from FPGA until they get big, just like ASICS.

Ultimately we will just have a middle ground between gpu's(hobbyist) and ASICS(large scale). and this first batch of miners will make a very small dent overall compared to asics for the next 6-12 months, So there is still time for gpu miners to all get their ROI.
But I would rather side with FPGA to slow down companies who use asics in house before releasing to market for massive gains

I don't know the big miners and bitmain will always be ahead of regular miners they have alot of money to burn and some of the best people working for them, hopefully someone will come up with a way to beat both and make a algo that can only be mined cpu/gpu the only way for pow to be decentralized is to be mineable by hardware that's accessible to everyone anywhere at a reasonable cost

[Piskeante]

there is a rule.

The more hashrate you put on a coin, the faster you end it. A coin cannot be mined for ever right?? Crypto market is not the market where you can crash a coin by hard-mining it, and when it goes PoS then change to another coin that will be as valuable as that one and continue thinking you´ll have the same profit.

This example ilustrates it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4tjn3VVPis

This is what you guys are doing. By centralizing the hashrate in big machines, leaving not wealthy asside because they cannot pay that hardware, you destroy the possibility for others to live. For example, in Venezuela, and other countries, this cryptomarket is helping people to pay bills. This is possible because the hashrate has not gone up with ASIC mining and others making mining unprofitable for gpu miners.  

Capitalism SHOULD NOT BE A WAY OF DESTROYING POOR PEOPLE BY CENTRALIZING THE MARKET. This market was not meant to be done by rich. And if this has become like this, i wish it dies as soon as possible.

Decentralization, the most claimed award for this market is , according to you, DEAD, since by pulling this machines online, you´ll make unprofitable mining for everybody except you.

But even considering you did not care about it, the more hashrate , and faster (because this machines mine much more), the increase in difficulty can also take you down by the greed of others.

GPU's let people enter this world, because the hashrate is not bound to increase a lot in a short period. ASICS and whatever shit you like, can increase hahrate to some extent that in a short period your machine will not give you any profit.

Endeed, someone said that at a price of 6000$ for BTC would not be profitable for ASIC miners, as the costs and difficulty would leave no profit.

I understand you are pushing your own agenda. And also your own money. Greed has achieved this: BTC , mined only by ASIC is the MOST CENTRALIZED MARKET TODAY. 70% of all the hashrate is in China and controlled by chinesse people.

some people are claiming that this people are selling cheaper their coins (not passing through exchanges) because that money would be "black money" without taxes and controls. Also, if those people are selling coins asside from the market, the market would see NO DEMAND, when in fact there is.

I will never support you guys. I will never support greed.

[jmigdlc99]

I can show you a chat room with 30 fpga devs in it right now feverishly working away to provide bitstreams for the community. What can you show me?

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

I WILL get these FPGA to GPU pricing; or Xilinx (and Intel) is going to need to get a restraining order against me. I don't know how to give up, ask paypal.

30 devs working on FPGAs would definitely be a sight to see.

I'd just like to change things up a bit and say THANK YOU, senseless and GPUHoarder, your work on bringing these FPGAs to the masses is phenomenal and will surely healthy for crypto in the long run. People have placed their trust on you for a reason and I wish nothing but success for your endeavors. Good luck!

[brokencodesq]

Did you even read what I said, I don`t believe in open source for FPGA expecialy with xx big farms that will pay any developer out there, and we know there are just few ppl that will work on fpga, my personal opinion that just crumbs will be let out, profitable bitsream will be bought and only released when some over the developer head say he can.......

I also would like to be wrong and I hope... time will tell

Do you have anything to substantiate that claim?

I can show you a chat room with 30 fpga devs in it right now feverishly working away to provide bitstreams for the community. What can you show me?

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

I WILL get these FPGA to GPU pricing; or Xilinx (and Intel) is going to need to get a restraining order against me. I don't know how to give up, ask paypal.

I'm just asking how are fpga any different than asic they are expensive which excludes people from poorer countries getting them plus how is it going to save on power at first maybe but as the hashrate goes up so does difficulty so you need to add more miners also how are you going to get a company selling a 3000-4000 dollar piece of hardware to 700-800 and that's a high priced gpu.
Listen I'm not trying to bust balls here I'm all for power reduction it's the cost and we all know there's going to be greedy devs hiding in 10 or 15% Dev fees it was going on with zec, you look at things different because you have access to fpgas at a cost lower than most and know what your doing with them

FPGA's are different from ASIC, because once you stamp out an ASIC, it's done... You ship it as is... Something changes, or you want to mine another algorithm? Tough... It was printed that way.

FPGA... the FP means FIELD PROGRAMMABLE. Means you dont need special tools to rewrite the function of the gates in the FPGA. The GA means GATE ARRAY.
5 years ahead of GPUs in AI. Actually used to design the GPUs you think are so friggin powerful.

Now we have SINGLE FPGAs that do the work that used to take dozens and even hundreds of CPLDs or FPGAs...

And these simpletons want to live in denial... Oh they can never replace my GPU... They could never do what a CPU can...  Bwahahaha...

Stop your self bullshitting.

Also, as to the argument that poorer countries cannot get them?  Poorer people cannot get them?
I submit to you, that 3 and 4 generation old FPGAs can be clustered. They can be bussed together, adding SRAM or SyncDRAM to them, (CHEAP, and FAST at those lower clockrates), and a cluster of moderately powered FPGAs could be tasked to do what these 10th generation PLDs can do, just at a slower rate per chip, and with less logic per chip. The bitstream can come from any JEDEC compatible flash device, or even from an MCU running a JEDEC emulation of a flash chip...


Something nearly twice as powerful could be made for 1/3 the cost of the new 10th gen FPGAs, just requiring a little more engineering.

Stop guessing about what you don't understand.

[ciciteng]

I really keep my attention close to this new approach; how the FPGA mining technology will turns out.
It's interesting yet so risky considering that all people and big company doing this arm race.
Personally I really want that the FPGA mining able to close the gap with current situation with ASIC miner.
But let's see is it really sensible anyhow.

[Littledragons]

This honestly is going to be the next gen GPU mining. I dont know about getting them cheaper than regular GPUs, but if you can do what you say more power to ya!

I do believe this because on doing my own research Ive found that most corporate clients should be using FPGAs rather than GPUs because of the differing variability and lower power usage but they simply cant get the devs for it. This is going to be the next gen, IMHO

[McMCrypto]

Each hardware has his own space in the cryptomining ecosystem...... FPGA is not suitable (profitable) for ETHASH algo.... but with TRIBUS, you could get 2100 MH/s (Keyco),  that means 30$/ per day  or  ROI in 6,5 -7  months (with low electricty cost ) , with ONLY 1 card... and with less wattage usage than a full GPU Rig.... so you will save in OPEX cost, .... the PROS  for FPGA its absolutely  programmable,  the CONTRAS,  you need know enough low -level  programming skills in order to develop  the bitstream for each algo you want to  use.

[adaseb]

FGPA were never a threat to the markets ever, even during the Bitcoin days.

The reason why is because there is a very low supply of FGPA manufacteurs out there. Exponentially smaller than GPU manufacteurs and even smaller than the ASICs that are produced.

I don't Xilinx and all the other FGPA manufacteurs will step up production just so a few people can mine XMR at an excellent rate.

[Sir William]

https://discord.gg/M6CyRh

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