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Author Topic: FPGA Miner Design for Sale to Someone willing to Market It  (Read 7967 times)
TeraMiner
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September 18, 2011, 04:58:06 PM
 #41

Thanks to some of you who took the time to think about the potential market. You all have cited the same risks that I've mulled over. There is the risk that someone else may come up with a better product, the price of bitcoins may drop through the floor, miners might be afraid to purchase something that doesn't have a value beyond mining, etc. In line with one of the earlier posts, the current mining capacity is about 15,000 GH/s. If 5% of that capacity switched to our high-end product, that would be the sale of 250 boards. I wonder how likely that is?

We have enough money to design and build 50 prototype of the high-end board so we really don't need any investment from other partners. However, that doesn't mean that we want to invest all that time and money into something that will leave us holding the bag when the music stops. I don't like to go into something unless I see a reasonable chance of success so I was looking for someone fully plugged into the BitCoin community to assess the potential and ultimately help sell it. If I knew that I would sell 500 high-end boards, I'd start building right now on my own. I understand that all new ventures have risk, so I guess I'd like to get a handle on the level of interest.

In all honesty, how many would YOU buy if it were available today. Also, do you know the names of large scale miners that might be interested in pre-ordering some boards (with cash held in escrow until product delivered) to gain early exclusivity, etc?

P.S. All work on this product has been done on our own time from our own homes. The only things that came from employers are technical and industry knowledge. It's hard to leave that at the door.
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nmat
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September 18, 2011, 05:56:06 PM
 #42

So, if you were selling these:

Quote
Entry-Level board achieves 750 MH/s @ 15W for $740.
High-End board achieves 3,000 MH/s @ 60W for $2100.

I would buy one entry-level board (or maybe one high-end if it doesn't have a fan and if I get a pre-order discount Tongue).

Note that this applies to today. If you come up with this in two months I might have a different opinion. This is a risky investment for miners too.

PS: I know that I am not a big investor, but I thought I'd show my support anyway.
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September 18, 2011, 07:24:05 PM
 #43

I doubt anybody will take you seriously till you provide some proof of your claims.

I suspect that everything you posted was made up on the spot, me thinks you don't have a running prototype or even self-written code.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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September 18, 2011, 07:38:19 PM
 #44

Thanks to some of you who took the time to think about the potential market. You all have cited the same risks that I've mulled over. There is the risk that someone else may come up with a better product, the price of bitcoins may drop through the floor, miners might be afraid to purchase something that doesn't have a value beyond mining, etc. In line with one of the earlier posts, the current mining capacity is about 15,000 GH/s. If 5% of that capacity switched to our high-end product, that would be the sale of 250 boards. I wonder how likely that is?

We have enough money to design and build 50 prototype of the high-end board so we really don't need any investment from other partners. However, that doesn't mean that we want to invest all that time and money into something that will leave us holding the bag when the music stops. I don't like to go into something unless I see a reasonable chance of success so I was looking for someone fully plugged into the BitCoin community to assess the potential and ultimately help sell it. If I knew that I would sell 500 high-end boards, I'd start building right now on my own. I understand that all new ventures have risk, so I guess I'd like to get a handle on the level of interest.

In all honesty, how many would YOU buy if it were available today. Also, do you know the names of large scale miners that might be interested in pre-ordering some boards (with cash held in escrow until product delivered) to gain early exclusivity, etc?

P.S. All work on this product has been done on our own time from our own homes. The only things that came from employers are technical and industry knowledge. It's hard to leave that at the door.

bottom line
Right now you are offering a pig in a poke

nothing to ship or show
Can you really expect others to layout hard cash on a promise
Especially when you yourself are reluctant to input any CASH

been there done that
you gotta front the money & grow form there

I wish I got rich on Just selling my idea's but thats not how starting your own business works



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markm
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September 18, 2011, 07:48:36 PM
 #45

You claim to have working prototypes, can you ship one to Gavin or some other core development team members so they can verify that the thing actually exists and works as claimed?

-MarkM-

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V4Vendettas
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September 18, 2011, 09:09:55 PM
 #46

Untill proof is provided then your wasting everyones time.

I'm interested in FGPA as a miner however  your posting ....




Wish scammers wouldn't toy with us so.

Proof wont be coming but hey I would love to be wrong.

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September 18, 2011, 09:13:40 PM
 #47

Untill proof is provided then your wasting everyones time.

I'm interested in FGPA as a miner however  your posting ....




Wish scammers wouldn't toy with us so.

Proof wont be coming but hey I would love to be wrong.

LOL. Proof or it didn't happen.
nmat
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September 18, 2011, 09:15:47 PM
 #48

Am I missing something? He isn't asking for money. The question is: if I was selling these, how many would you buy? You don't pay to answer. Besides, if you are wasting your time posting to call this a scam, you might as well give a real answer.

When he comes asking for money, you can tell him to get lost. Right now, it isn't the case.
TeraMiner
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September 18, 2011, 09:17:10 PM
 #49

ElectricMucus and RobertRibbeck,

Throughout this thread, I have continually reminded that we have a working proof-of-concept and some good component pricing locked down. We're just trying to decide whether to take this all the way to production. You should know that we would not take a dime from anyone until we had a product to sell. If there was a large-scale miner that was impressed by our demo and was willing to put some skin in the game to get temporary exclusivity, we'd consider it. That arrangement would be useful to mitigate our personal risk, that's all.

My questions on this thread are helping us to understand the potential demand for this solution. We'll use this feedback in our decision to go forward or not. No scam. No money exchanging hands. Thanks nmat for getting it. Just looking for an intelligent discussion regarding the value of such a product. It doesn't do anybody any good to continue doubting our abilities or motives. Just assume that we can prove our targets once we move away from the dev kit and build the first prototype. I know this is hard for some but I'm trying to have a productive conversation on the forum. Treat it like an "academic" conversion if that makes it easier for you.

Again, assuming a 2x markup over costs mentioned, would the typical miner be likely to replace their GPUs with this product. What sort of penetration do you think it could make in the global hash rate? I'm hoping that this is the place where mature BitCoin miners might offer some advice and guidance for us.

randomguy7
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September 18, 2011, 09:27:09 PM
 #50

You should add a poll to this thread. I'd probably buy one of the high end boards when it's ready and if I'm convinced then that it's not a scam (sending a prototype to a trusted person like one of the core devs might be a simple solution to get the required trust).
I think you'd sell quite a lot as this basically would kick most gpu miners out of the game (at least those who pay for their electricity).
bulanula
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September 18, 2011, 09:29:44 PM
 #51

Well the problem is this : these figures are way too optimistic and so much better than current production models and the like that people are doubting them. If this was indeed real then I would totally consider dumping my GPUs because of the less noise, less consumption of energy, no need for host computer and all the clutter that comes with it etc. The only downside would be the cost ( which imho is totally reasonable even at 3000 bucks for the big 3000 mhash/s model as it is just at the magical 1$/mhash point ) and problem that this cannot easily be used for other things like GPUs can etc.

BUT at the current climate anybody who buys further mining hardware is a complete and utter idiot AND these values seem to good to be true and possible in real life etc. AND you give no proof or any evidence these figures are possible. Hence, people saying it is a scam.
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September 18, 2011, 09:30:14 PM
 #52

would the typical miner be likely to replace their GPUs with this product. What sort of penetration do you think it could make in the global hash rate?

I don't mine. I don't plan on start mining until there are small low power FPGA/sASIC/ASIC solutions available that I can fire up and forget. No whining fans, no noticeable heat output.

I don't plan on ever mining for profit. I would run such a system to help support Bitcoin. While I can't quantify any numbers for you, I'm quite sure there are others who - like me - are interested in Bitcoin as a social and political experiment more than as an "investment".

With all that said, without ArtForz or ztex at least considering your numbers to be plausible (Mhash/s as well as price) I belong to the wait-and-see crowd. Impressed and interested, if true.

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September 18, 2011, 09:37:01 PM
 #53

ElectricMucus and RobertRibbeck,

Throughout this thread, I have continually reminded that we have a working proof-of-concept [...]



Lets recap at first you make some exaggerated claims in your OP along with 'unbelievable' prices.
Then you proceed telling everybody that this are your production costs while mentioning nothing in the sort at first.
You tell us that you have made a working prototype 'on off-the-shelf' equipment and now suddenly all that's left is a proof of concept.

ok I admit it IHBT... can we move on now  Roll Eyes

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September 18, 2011, 09:40:13 PM
 #54

Am I missing something? He isn't asking for money. The question is: if I was selling these, how many would you buy? You don't pay to answer. Besides, if you are wasting your time posting to call this a scam, you might as well give a real answer.

When he comes asking for money, you can tell him to get lost. Right now, it isn't the case.


Im going to be humble on the internets  Undecided you have a point so..

As a miner if this was actualy for sale in a polished state ready to rock and roll and not an investment scam I would certainly buy the 3000 mhash/s model.


Happy ?



Still bullshit and belive me no one wishs it wasnt the case more than me I would love somthing like this.


bulanula
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September 18, 2011, 09:44:17 PM
 #55

Am I missing something? He isn't asking for money. The question is: if I was selling these, how many would you buy? You don't pay to answer. Besides, if you are wasting your time posting to call this a scam, you might as well give a real answer.

When he comes asking for money, you can tell him to get lost. Right now, it isn't the case.


Im going to be humble on the internets  Undecided you have a point so..

As a miner if this was actualy for sale in a polished state ready to rock and roll and not an investment scam I would certainly buy the 3000 mhash/s model.


Happy ?



Still bullshit and belive me no one wishs it wasnt the case more than me I would love somthing like this.



Exactly my point too. Too damn good to be true. Would so love to get rid of these heat and noise making GPUs near my bed.
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September 18, 2011, 09:48:37 PM
 #56

I like the heat as it keeps my office in the garage warm but dear god the fans make a racket dont they. Still its free heating so I try not to moan to much as winters in the UK suck.

How do these FPGAs mesure up on the noise/heat front?


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September 18, 2011, 10:04:46 PM
 #57

They virtually produce little noise and heat compared to a GPU running 24/7 at 99% load etc.

The OP is just coming here and saying all these incredible sounding figures. It is like somebody telling the auto industry they can make an electric car with 1000 km range and very cheap cost 10000 dollars. Simply impossible with current tech. That is why we are so skeptic. If this is true then by no means send Gavin or somebody a little bit of evidence then we can talk about scaling your production process to cope with all of us buying this and selling our ATI cards etc. Smiley
TeraMiner
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September 18, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
 #58

Thanks for these recent replies as they highlight a benefit that I had not considered. It seems that not only are the electricity costs a factor but the noise and heat pose significant discomfort to the miners. We would strive for a passive heat sink (no noise) but the 60W estimate for the high-end product may require a fan. We'll see.

My impression so far is that if we build this, it would be significant enough that miners would really go for it.

Also, I've learned that you miners are a skeptical group. Therefore, our first order of business would be to have a reputable set of miners evaluate our early prototypes. Is there a short list of people that you recommend we work with to get a review that would satisfy the masses? I heard mention of "Gavin"? Any others?

I apologize if the original post was misleading. When I stated production costs, I was talking about the cost to manufacture the board as opposed to price to sell the board. I realize it wasn't worded well. I will change the original post to be more clear that these are manufacturing costs.
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September 18, 2011, 10:12:42 PM
 #59

Teraminer, just grab your cell phone and shoot some video of the FPGA in action. If you have one running it shouldnt take 10 minutes of your time. That should be good enough proof to assert you are not just trolling. In theory, it could still be a more elaborate hoax, but I kinda fail to see the point in anyone doing that.

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September 18, 2011, 10:17:35 PM
 #60

Teraminer, just grab your cell phone and shoot some video of the FPGA in action. If you have one running it shouldnt take 10 minutes of your time. That should be good enough proof to assert you are not just trolling. In theory, it could still be a more elaborate hoax, but I kinda fail to see the point in anyone doing that.
+1

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