Why does Bitcoin seek regulation so desperately?

[bnrrpayments]

Wasn't it meant to be a perpetually impossible-to-regulate fiat money alternative?

[aminorex]

Too many U.S. nationals in the bitcoin foundation, perhaps.

At the NYDFS hearings, the entrepreneurs and VCs were fairly clear on this point:  Bitcoin will perceive regulation as damage and route around it.

Any effective regulation will have to be regulation of business practices, not regulation of the technical foundations.

I do think the lack of a visible plan to incorporate useful enhancements and extensions such as zerocoin are due to a chilling effect of regulatory overhang.

[Lethn]

Bitcoin doesn't seek regulation, it simply exists you're talking about the community right? There certainly are loyalist elements like the Bitcoin foundation who are trying to shove their way into the position of being the self-appointed Bitcoin arbiters to U.S government regulation but I'm pretty sure most Bitcoiners don't give two fucks what some government officials say with a bunch of guys who are full of themselves behind closed doors. In the end they can impose whatever rules they like, they can't stop Bitcoin from being traded across the internet, they can certainly impose rules in their own currency, but all that will do is drive people away into the arms of other countries and they know that.

If all else fails and the U.S government really does try to attack Bitcoin like I honestly keep thinking they might, we can switch to something like Anoncoin which is being deliberately designed to be well, anonymous, hence the name.

[gentlemand]

Because most people want to make money/ preserve their wealth without being hounded or jailed. I'm sure there'll always be a hard core who do transact with fully anonymous cryptos.

The 99.99% who wouldn't risk putting their money into something like that is going to have enough trouble finding it in their hearts to accept it as a fully legit concept.

[bnrrpayments]

To me, whoever seeks regulation for Bitcoin, entirely misses the point of Bitcoin. If whoever named themselves Satoshi wanted a regulated inflation-free payment system, they would simply set up a gold-backed shop similar to GoldMoney in a highly regulated jurisdiction of their choice. Regulation implies inevitable eventual centralization at the hands of the regulator defeating the primary idea of Bitcoin as a decentralized unit of exchange.

Yet the tycoons are not that dumb not to understand it, neither are they idealistic. They simply want to turn Bitcoin into their b1tch and ride it so long the frenzy is there stemming from the dissent of many savers with their parasitic compatriots who have robbed them through something called central banks and fiat currencies. These Bitcoin tycoons are OK if it's just another Paypal in the end as long as it sends steady cash into their pockets along the way (fiat cash, needless to say). That's the path I see the Bitcoin community taking now at large, with its core begging for regulation like a slut begging to get laid.

[BitchicksHusband]

Just because people don't want any single entity to control it doesn't mean they want crime to run rampant with it.  Regulation is fine as long as it maintains the ideals of largely leaving people alone when they're not committing crimes.

[bnrrpayments]

Just because people don't want any single entity to control it doesn't mean they want crime to run rampant with it.  Regulation is fine as long as it maintains the ideals of largely leaving people alone when they're not committing crimes.

Trusting governments will limit themselves in their regulation is like trusting them per se. Why not then just use their printed fiat instead?

[Ibian]

Regulation is just to get the 99% on board. All the people who do not oppose massive government or are afraid of being their own master. In reality, all regulation will do is make the people who would follow it anyway feel safe and protected, while not affecting those who wish to use it anonymously or for tax evasion in the slightest.

And it's not a matter of "seeking", by the way. It was going to happen, it just happens to be a good thing that it is happening.

[bnrrpayments]

And it's not a matter of "seeking", by the way. It was going to happen, it just happens to be a good thing that it is happening.

No kidding? How will governments enforce this regulation? By censoring the Internet on a global scale and checking every USB stick/HDD for bitcoins?

[Ibian]

And it's not a matter of "seeking", by the way. It was going to happen, it just happens to be a good thing that it is happening.

No kidding? How will governments enforce this regulation? By censoring the Internet on a global scale and checking every USB stick/HDD for bitcoins?

That's just it - they can't actually enforce much. Only on the fiat side, which a lot of us don't care about - and then only for those who don't take active steps to stay anonymous.

[richmke]

No kidding? How will governments enforce this regulation? By censoring the Internet on a global scale and checking every USB stick/HDD for bitcoins?

Just like China, and just like the legal pot dealers in CO and CA.

China made it illegal for the banks to transact business with bitcoin exchanges.

The pot dealers in CO and CA could not open up bank accounts to deposit all their cash because the banks were prohibited from dealing with drug money. They needed a IRS/Treasury ruling for those businesses.

The government makes it illegal for the banks to do a lot of business. It would be relatively easy for the USA government to impose the same restrictions on Bitcoin exchanges. The government could also make it illegal for businesses to buy/sell bitcoin (like they regulate alcohol, firearms, tobacco, drugs, etc.).

If you can only transact purchases/sales of bitcoins in person with an individual, that would severely limit its value.

Would you own more than a few bitcoins if the only way you could ever cash out (to buy a new car) is to find someone locally to sell them to? Without some electronic banking means, how could you ever hope to sell $300,000 to buy a new house?

[Ibian]

Would you own more than a few bitcoins if the only way you could ever cash out (to buy a new car) is to find someone locally to sell them to?

Yes. Wait, no, let me be clear: Fuck yes. Localbitcoins works, and it works better the more people use it.

Without some electronic banking means, how could you ever hope to sell $300,000 to buy a new house?

Does the internet count? Cause that's what bitcoin runs on. People buy and sell houses and cars and who knows what else in bitcoin already, why wouldn't that become a normal thing? It works, it's safer, cheaper and faster than relying on banks, and it saves you the trouble of converting from fiat to real money.

[coinpharmer]

people just want to be able to know they wont goto jail for getting rich with bitcoin. its not always ok to just buy a flashy house/car and have no explainable reason, the default thinking is your involved with drugs, and at this point all your things can be taken. people want to be able to pay the gov some % and get to live a happy life is all.

also i read about post offices nation wide are thinking about acting as bitcoin exchanges, that would be epic! I bet they could easily charge a small fee and make a bunch of money and get things kicked off for every day bitcoin use in stores and p2p

[richmke]

Fuck yes. Localbitcoins works, and it works better the more people use it.

Anything works for small transactions. Every day, billions of dollars are traded on the currency exchanges. localbitcoins would be worse than healthcare.gov at a fraction of that volume.

Without some electronic banking means, how could you ever hope to sell $300,000 to buy a new house?

Does the internet count?

Nope. The point is not to transfer the bitcoins, but to turn them into cash you can use at the grocery store. You can buy and sell monopoly money all day. But, if you can't deposit your profits into your checking account, all the paper profits are worthless.

Cause that's what bitcoin runs on. People buy and sell houses and cars and who knows what else in bitcoin already, why wouldn't that become a normal thing?

Like I said, if the government prevented banks from directly and indirectly participating in bitcoins, then high value bitcoin transactions become virtually impossible.

It works, it's safer, cheaper and faster than relying on banks, and it saves you the trouble of converting from fiat to real money.

That's the point: There is no trouble of converting real money to real money, so why bother with the fiat money? It may be faster than relying upon banks (btc to btc vs. usd to usd), but it is safer and cheaper for me to transfer with a bank. I can send/receive 1 penny, or a $1 million for free through my bank.

BTW: Bitcoins is NOT faster than a bank where it really counts. Bitcoins has a huge problem with point of sale transactions. I can buy anything at a store, pay with my credit card, and be done in seconds. Try sending bitcoins and having your transaction fully confirmed in less than 30 seconds. What happens to the network when millions of transactions a minute are trying to post?

At best, bitcoins is more like your savings account. You can spend it, but it takes work. Until bitcoins becomes like your checking account, it will have limited penetration.

[Ibian]

Well first off, you don't have to convert to fiat. There are enough businesses that accept bitcoin today, right now, that you could theoretically live solely on bitcoin for everything except taxes. And I'm not sure we have the same ideas about what "small transactions" means. One localbitcoins trade can be enough for a full month worth of expenses.

As for sales, you don't wait for confirmations. I think Overstock takes one confirmation, so about ten minutes. Hardly a problem. For smaller stuff, like my monthly VPN bill, it is confirmed faster than I can flip from multibit to the website. Much faster and easier than using a plastic card.

The only thing you NEED fiat for, strictly speaking, is taxes. Literally anything else can be done in bitcoin if the business or person will take it. And more do every day.

[skivrmt]

Well first off, you don't have to convert to fiat. There are enough businesses that accept bitcoin today, right now, that you could theoretically live solely on bitcoin for everything except taxes. And I'm not sure we have the same ideas about what "small transactions" means. One localbitcoins trade can be enough for a full month worth of expenses.

As for sales, you don't wait for confirmations. I think Overstock takes one confirmation, so about ten minutes. Hardly a problem. For smaller stuff, like my monthly VPN bill, it is confirmed faster than I can flip from multibit to the website. Much faster and easier than using a plastic card.

The only thing you NEED fiat for, strictly speaking, is taxes. Literally anything else can be done in bitcoin if the business or person will take it. And more do every day.

Do you drive?  Like leave the house?   I haven't heard of a gas station anywhere accepting Bitcoin yet.  Do you pay a cell phone bill?  How about a utility bill?  At some point in the transaction process it gets converted to fiat.

Currently... 

[TheButterZone]

http://www.coindesk.com/pump-gas-for-bitcoin-in-the-us/
http://www.coinfueled.com/
http://www.coindesk.com/bylls-lets-canadians-pay-bills-bitcoin/