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Author Topic: possible answer to getting rid of all the trash threads here  (Read 502 times)
Maus0728
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June 15, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
 #21

I think you are taking away each and every peoples privelage to learn and ask things about bitcoin here in the forum. Your suggestion will surely defeat the main purpose of the forum.

Sometimes the search button is not enough to answer my question because it is slightly different from the previous topic.

I remember the rules and regulation that the rank is not a measurement whether you are a good poster or a bad poster.
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June 15, 2018, 03:19:08 PM
Last edit: June 15, 2018, 03:32:42 PM by cryptohunter
 #22

I think you are taking away each and every peoples privelage to learn and ask things about bitcoin here in the forum. Your suggestion will surely defeat the main purpose of the forum.

Sometimes the search button is not enough to answer my question because it is slightly different from the previous topic.

I remember the rules and regulation that the rank is not a measurement whether you are a good poster or a bad poster.

Please re-read what the proposal is.

I have no idea why you are saying this.

You will be able to post and ask just like now but on the junior boards right from the outset. You will also hopefully receive an abundance of help from people hoping to be of use and in return receive merit. Rather than your thread instantly going to page 20 under my ico is best for x reason and copy and pasted news threads, nonsensical bot threads etc.

You are 100% correct that rank is not really a measurement of whether you are a great poster or not although I would suspect the number of hero and legends that are bots or pure sig/ico spammers is rather low in comparison to the proportion of new accounts. Most legends that have built their account from noob jail in the start would have a genuine interest in crypto.

Again there is no logical reason to not go ahead with it. It will for certain improve posting quality and reduce most of the trash from the main boards. What remains will then be suitable for manual moderation.  I don't think we should say because the solution is not perfect that it is not worth implementing. Certain behaviors are not easy to auto moderate so identifying those and manually moderating is the only option but you need to get to a volume level that is manageable first.

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June 15, 2018, 10:42:49 PM
 #23

I do not follow this logic... that is not to say I am correct and that you are wrong. I am always happy to discuss and learn and change my opinion.

They can still ask these questions on the junior boards. Those even attempting to join in and contribute to legitimate and worthy discussions can be given merit. I would find going there browsing through a selection of good threads, then meriting those making real effort to help or even joining in conversations of worth and interest far more rewarding than reporting 100 spammers, ico bots, post pasting bots and then the mods have to confirm and delete and take action. This is a wasteful and unpleasant process and it is also a very centralised bottlenecked process at the mod level if doing it this way. It is also a very negative thing to report person compared to giving praise and merit.

You are not to expect highly detailed knowledge of conceptual design and coding from anyone on this board including legends of course only a willing and helpful attitude to contribute and converse with others.

I am not really complaining at the obvious tech brain drain and dilution since the days of hardcore bitcoiners - that was always going to happen. Let's be honest what percentage of the board actually would have the capacity to understand many of these designs at a deep math level. I don't think it's essential most need to understand at more than a very basic level. However the board is now nothing to do with the tech or about the aim of creating decentralised trustless networks... it is simply becoming a marketing board for icos through various posting techniques that make the board almost worthless to anyone other that to hammer the search function for specific details you may want to look up from years ago.

Having a sensible vetting period that is semi automated is the obvious choice. This will be a decentralised vetting process since those with the most merit to give will be free to peruse the junior boards and all be mods in a way.
You're sort of asking the newbie jail to be bought back. Stopping people to post in the main boards is not a good idea. Although you can still merit users in any board you want to. That is much better because more the boards, more the posts to merit. Cool

I believe no one has so far liked this idea, it would be better for a better suggestion, a user friendly one, or you could just merit users, report a few and have good discussions, eh?

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June 15, 2018, 10:57:51 PM
 #24

I do not follow this logic... that is not to say I am correct and that you are wrong. I am always happy to discuss and learn and change my opinion.

They can still ask these questions on the junior boards. Those even attempting to join in and contribute to legitimate and worthy discussions can be given merit. I would find going there browsing through a selection of good threads, then meriting those making real effort to help or even joining in conversations of worth and interest far more rewarding than reporting 100 spammers, ico bots, post pasting bots and then the mods have to confirm and delete and take action. This is a wasteful and unpleasant process and it is also a very centralised bottlenecked process at the mod level if doing it this way. It is also a very negative thing to report person compared to giving praise and merit.

You are not to expect highly detailed knowledge of conceptual design and coding from anyone on this board including legends of course only a willing and helpful attitude to contribute and converse with others.

I am not really complaining at the obvious tech brain drain and dilution since the days of hardcore bitcoiners - that was always going to happen. Let's be honest what percentage of the board actually would have the capacity to understand many of these designs at a deep math level. I don't think it's essential most need to understand at more than a very basic level. However the board is now nothing to do with the tech or about the aim of creating decentralised trustless networks... it is simply becoming a marketing board for icos through various posting techniques that make the board almost worthless to anyone other that to hammer the search function for specific details you may want to look up from years ago.

Having a sensible vetting period that is semi automated is the obvious choice. This will be a decentralised vetting process since those with the most merit to give will be free to peruse the junior boards and all be mods in a way.
You're sort of asking the newbie jail to be bought back. Stopping people to post in the main boards is not a good idea. Although you can still merit users in any board you want to. That is much better because more the boards, more the posts to merit. Cool

I believe no one has so far liked this idea, it would be better for a better suggestion, a user friendly one, or you could just merit users, report a few and have good discussions, eh?


Well let's be honest reading the replies from most it seems they are not getting what the idea exactly is. It seems they think they  are getting all  posting rights revoked.

I think a vote from senior members and above might be quite a useful poll.

Please validate why stopping people or bots having immediate posting rights on the main board without first demonstrating they are willing to be useful willing participants in the spirit of the board is a bad thing...

Even though they will have immediate posting rights on a junior board where if they do prove to everyone with smerits to give that they are useful or even just willing to abide by the board rules ...then they will in a decentralised way be approved for starting topics on the main boards.

There has been no better alternative offered and leaving it as it is now is just turning the board into 90% garbage actually more likely 95%

They removed noob jail because it was not possible with the volume.... this is simply a noob jail that is able to cope with huge volume due to more or less decentralising the mod process.

Like we said they dont need to give anonymint level posts or answers just show they are genuinely interested and helpful.  



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June 16, 2018, 12:24:56 AM
 #25

I will tell you something I just thought that will show how this idea would be bad for the forum and to the newbies.

Imagine someone who has a legit question, someone who doesn't even know this bounty/spammers world exists.

He writes on Google something like "how to recover a wallet from Electrum"

He sees two main websites, bitcointalk and reddit. He immediately open two tabs, one for each.

This guy comes here, creates an account, and try to find the right board for his question. He clicks new topic and he sees a message saying he can't post there. He can only post in the newbies session.

This guy will immediately close bitcointalk tab and post on reddit. He will be answered in reddit immediately and will never come to bitcointalk again.


Later on, because reddit is filled with altcoins shilling, he "discovers" bitcoin is a shitcoin with old technology and sells all his btc and buys bch, nano, iota etc...

And spammers will continue spamming here because they already have old accounts and nobody reports them.

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June 16, 2018, 12:39:54 AM
 #26

I will tell you something I just thought that will show how this idea would be bad for the forum and to the newbies.

Imagine someone who has a legit question, someone who doesn't even know this bounty/spammers world exists.

He writes on Google something like "how to recover a wallet from Electrum"

He sees two main websites, bitcointalk and reddit. He immediately open two tabs, one for each.

This guy comes here, creates an account, and try to find the right board for his question. He clicks new topic and he sees a message saying he can't post there. He can only post in the newbies session.

This guy will immediately close bitcointalk tab and post on reddit. He will be answered in reddit immediately and will never come to bitcointalk again.


Later on, because reddit is filled with altcoins shilling, he "discovers" bitcoin is a shitcoin with old technology and sells all his btc and buys bch, nano, iota etc...

And spammers will continue spamming here because they already have old accounts and nobody reports them.

Have you not seen the newbies which come here ask a question thats already been asked before a dozen times and then disappear? Reddit is probably a better option for them because its already a cesspool driven by a popularity voting system.

Bitcointalk is for discussion relating to the crypto space. Sure questions can be asked and answered but if they are going to ask questions relating to Electrum theres several different other platforms which are more suited like stack exchange. These questions are not unique.
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June 16, 2018, 02:17:00 AM
 #27

100 merit+ to start a thread on the main alt or btc board

junior boards opened for btc and alt sections for all the...

which ico is best threads, my ico is best threads, i will copy and paste other threads to boost my post count threads, etc

the boards simply moves too fast with many many duplicate threads and most are just pump my ico threads anyway by armies of sockpuppet accounts with zero merit

mods need demerit powers really for obvious spammers who have purchased high level accounts but never post anything of worth and just use them to spam for different icos

This is a forum where every newbie is really expected to post something that is new for them. It might be a trash post from all of us who already have lots of information about crypto but for newbies who have less knowledge about them it is a genuine question. There are some newbie accounts that are merely for leveling up there rank to join signature campaigns and some bounties. Even the merit system wasn't able to solve the shitty and spammy posts but it lessens the potential of making bounty and signature armies to make a living. The best thing to clean this forum from spammers is to remove altcoin section where newbies are spamming their shitty coins just to get a piece of money. The forum should be all about bitcoin only, since it's bitcointalk.org. The removal of bounties and signature campaigns from ICOs will help clean this forum from spammers and shitty posts from newbies ranking their way up.
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June 16, 2018, 10:07:56 AM
 #28

I will tell you something I just thought that will show how this idea would be bad for the forum and to the newbies.

Imagine someone who has a legit question, someone who doesn't even know this bounty/spammers world exists.

He writes on Google something like "how to recover a wallet from Electrum"

He sees two main websites, bitcointalk and reddit. He immediately open two tabs, one for each.

This guy comes here, creates an account, and try to find the right board for his question. He clicks new topic and he sees a message saying he can't post there. He can only post in the newbies session.

This guy will immediately close bitcointalk tab and post on reddit. He will be answered in reddit immediately and will never come to bitcointalk again.


Later on, because reddit is filled with altcoins shilling, he "discovers" bitcoin is a shitcoin with old technology and sells all his btc and buys bch, nano, iota etc...

And spammers will continue spamming here because they already have old accounts and nobody reports them.

This person will find the right board because

altcoin - senior board
altcoin - junior board

bitcoin senior board
bitcoin junior board

it will not be difficult for him to locate the board for him to ask new questions on.

most spam is coming from very low merit very low rank  accounts........ the bots are on zero merit mostly because they either copy and paste other posts or post out of context nonsense.

spammers using accounts that are still able to post on the senior boards will be moderated manually once you get rid of the huge proportion of new accounts posting trash for cash

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June 16, 2018, 11:20:57 AM
 #29

This guy will immediately close bitcointalk tab and post on reddit. He will be answered in reddit immediately and will never come to bitcointalk again.


There are both merits and demerits to making restrictions for new users on nay platform.The staff has to make final decision after evaluating everything. Having a limit for new members like x number of posts a day (initially) is however sufficient for a genuine member in my opinion.

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Maus0728
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June 16, 2018, 11:33:03 AM
 #30

The best thing to clean this forum from spammers is to remove altcoin section where newbies are spamming their shitty coins just to get a piece of money. The forum should be all about bitcoin only, since it's bitcointalk.org.
It doesn't mean that the posts from the forum are only bitcoins discussion because it is entitled as bitcointalk. Still, altcoins are being traded into bitcoin. Why do we need to remove Altcoin section if it can help all the member here in the forum.
The removal of bounties and signature campaigns from ICOs will help clean this forum from spammers and shitty posts from newbies ranking their way up.
Well at least it will lessen the number of shitposters around here, but the time will come that forum will be deserted and the amount of shared discussion will decrease. Only members who have lovely bitcoin will be left here for knowledge.
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June 18, 2018, 01:41:56 PM
 #31

This guy will immediately close bitcointalk tab and post on reddit. He will be answered in reddit immediately and will never come to bitcointalk again.


There are both merits and demerits to making restrictions for new users on nay platform.The staff has to make final decision after evaluating everything. Having a limit for new members like x number of posts a day (initially) is however sufficient for a genuine member in my opinion.

Limiting to x posts per day on the main board will not suffice since bots and spammers will just make more accounts and the board will still move as fast as it does now with 99% junk ico speculation. This makes it impossible for good threads to get any foothold and spark up good discussions like before.

Also spam PM need attention i am getting too many of these shits now too. Should be no warnings just ban these spammers offering to pm thousands of members and so many 1000 promotion posts from their bots.




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June 18, 2018, 09:55:41 PM
 #32

well since we have had no reasonable argument to suggest this is a bad idea then I think we should push ahead with it asap

how to get this implemented asap?

briefly scanning the main alt board and looking at the merit of the thread starters I notice we can cut away 90%+ of the same ico pumping, shilling, bot threads being started

the questions that are not outright spam and shilling are mostly ridiculous for a main alt board and are asked over and over again.

the sooner we have junior and senior boards the better it will be for bct

if we fail to isolate some REAL good reasons not to implement this then it should be put into action as soon as possible to stop the board becoming unusable

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June 19, 2018, 11:48:47 AM
 #33

Of course, the forum should put restrictions for users who are spamming this place. But making a rule in general for all members is not right in my opinion. I mean why punish all members for the spam caused by a handful of a members.

In my opinion, the limit to create certain number of threads in a day should be there. Usually , on small forums the staff is able to notice themselves if some user does this. But there is so much activity here, that is it almost impossible to spot all such users manually. If possible, reports should be sent to the staff once a member crosses that number of posts in certain time frame to check this.
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June 19, 2018, 12:09:25 PM
 #34

Of course, the forum should put restrictions for users who are spamming this place. But making a rule in general for all members is not right in my opinion. I mean why punish all members for the spam caused by a handful of a members.

In my opinion, the limit to create certain number of threads in a day should be there. Usually , on small forums the staff is able to notice themselves if some user does this. But there is so much activity here, that is it almost impossible to spot all such users manually. If possible, reports should be sent to the staff once a member crosses that number of posts in certain time frame to check this.

1. There is no punishment you can post on the junior boards
2. It is not a handful of members it is an army of bots and new members who dont follow or attempt to follow the rules.

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June 19, 2018, 05:09:59 PM
 #35

To me I think personally, this won't work. It will increase the chaos already as many people will be farming for more merit just to get to 100+ and keep opening new topics. And also as someone has mentioned the payment for at least copper member being inexpensive, a lot of persons will simply go ahead to make the payments and keep opening new topics. I think the Mods should monitor and close non relevant threads. Demerit will defi be abused should it ever be put in place
That too is not a good option. I think thread locking should be a better approach.
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June 19, 2018, 07:16:06 PM
 #36

To me I think personally, this won't work. It will increase the chaos already as many people will be farming for more merit just to get to 100+ and keep opening new topics. And also as someone has mentioned the payment for at least copper member being inexpensive, a lot of persons will simply go ahead to make the payments and keep opening new topics. I think the Mods should monitor and close non relevant threads. Demerit will defi be abused should it ever be put in place
That too is not a good option. I think thread locking should be a better approach.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean.


1. increase the chaos where? (certainly not on the main boards) what chaos of merit farming? keep opening new topics?  none of this is going to a/ be any easier than just going to the main board and posting? it all sounds a lot of hassle and there are a lot of points of failure for them to achieve any of this. I'm not sure who will award them merit for any of these tactics.

This is like saying it is pointless to put your money in a safe at your home because people will if they want to enough bring explosives or a digger to open it or take it a way with part of your home. Even shutting the front door and vetting who has access is a waste of time just leave the door open and throw your valuables all over the entrance floor.

It is simply a way of making it more difficult to ruin the main board with ico spam and bots. It is rewards vs all the hassle that will be the thing that deters them. Right now they have no hassle just open a new account start filling the main boards with spam and nonsense bot jabber.

2. the mods have no chance of monitoring all threads on here and closing those that are unsuitable there are simply too many threads.

Demerit is for mods alone if they abuse it openly then I am sure a  global mod can be alerted.

Noob jail was only removed because of the volume ... this is noob jail with decentralised moderation by all those with smerit. I think smerit should be for heros and legends only who have something to lose by trying to game the system.




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June 24, 2018, 01:20:49 PM
 #37

more discussion to encourage adoption required

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June 24, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
 #38

Theymos would probably never agree to this. And nothing prevents turning even good thread to the worst spam collection. Moderators clearly cannot get rid of all spam, one of my promotion messages (guilty!) was deleted yesterday, even though it from December! The administration needs to use AI to catch all those spam!

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June 24, 2018, 03:02:52 PM
 #39

Im not against with the idea, but I can see some problems with this if implemented there will be more merits and accounts selling at higher price.

We all know how hard to manage to get 100 merits you need a lot of time to spend in this forum, how about others that has a job and cant put too much time and effort to get hundred of merits but a legitimate user and not a spammer.

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June 26, 2018, 10:56:48 PM
 #40

Im not against with the idea, but I can see some problems with this if implemented there will be more merits and accounts selling at higher price.

We all know how hard to manage to get 100 merits you need a lot of time to spend in this forum, how about others that has a job and cant put too much time and effort to get hundred of merits but a legitimate user and not a spammer.

Accounts should not really be sold.

I think 50 merits could be a sensible start

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