serious discussion on the strategy of the manipulator. Please no flame posts

[NamelessOne]

Yes, that is a possibility for sure. Do these super walls appear on any other exchanges? I only use MtGox.

[BadBear]

Yes, that is a possibility for sure. Do these super walls appear on any other exchanges? I only use MtGox.

I dunno, that's a good question.  It sure is peculiar.  I'm glad I got in while the getting is good though!  The way it rebounded I think we'll see it reverse it's trend, or at least stabilize soon.  There are just way too many people waiting for them to get cheap, like me!

[Jixtreme]

Explain 17000 BTC in at 7 that can appear and disappear instantly as it has many times. Often ranging from 10000 - 17000BTC . It is either a single person or a group who perfectly time placing or removing their walls.

Yes, one person/bot, but with malicious intent to manipulate the market?? or simply to profit? If you had funds to place 17k BTC orders, why would you only order 1000?

This is a stupid bot with deep pockets who chooses moments to go all-in based on an algorithm.

THERE. IS. NO. MANIPULATOR.

It's hilarious how idiotic some of the people here are.

I will enjoy taking your money.

[NamelessOne]

You won't be taking mine,  I've been making plenty of money. Someone that can stop the market dead, killing a rally, whether they are using a bot or not, is still manipulating things and screwing with thousands of other people. It doesn't need to me malicious to be manipulation.

[johnj]

This is a stupid bot with deep pockets who chooses moments to go all-in based on an algorithm.

I used to think the same thing.  Really.

But a bot-owner with deep pockets doesn't keep a 'stupid bot' around. These moves have been much less mechanical and much more organic.

I don't know exactly what's going on, but I'd be willing to bet it's not just a gang of ill-advised bots.

[netrin]

The "there is no singular manipulator" case has been well stated. It does not need to be repeated ad infinitum as per the OP's request. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the price was wildly manipulated for profit and/or intensional discrediting, but I don't think the 'walls' will enlighten us. I often wonder about the stolen coins, whether Mt. Gox is solvent, or whether any central banks or credit agencies have taken active watch.

Revalin, I found your charts fascinating and others agree. Perhaps you could start a new thread or post them to ftp. Even if delayed to preserve your advantage, they could start a great discussion and suggested improvements.

[NamelessOne]

The massive 10000btc wall at 5 is gone now. The Manipulator seems to want it to drop into the $4-5 range.

[BadBear]

The massive 10000btc wall at 5 is gone now. The Manipulator seems to want it to drop into the $4-5 range.

He's just following the market, it's likely to dip below 5 at some point so why not soak up some more bitcoins for the money?

[NamelessOne]

For sure, I'll be doing the same.

[Minsc]

The Manipulator is forcing the price down.  People keep trying to rally and whenever it starts rallying big, he dumps coins onto it to make the rallying stop.

[Technomage]

If someone can make money doing that, then why not. The price will slowly move up if there is true demand for it to go up, regardless of the back-and-forth created by manipulators. I wouldn't worry about it, either ignore the short term or use it to your advantage and trade accordingly.

[Jixtreme]

It doesn't need to me malicious to be manipulation.

Pick up a dictionary:

ma·nip·u·late   /məˈnɪpyəˌleɪt/  Show Spelled[muh-nip-yuh-leyt]  Show IPA
verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1. to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner.

(bolded for emphasis)

[istar]

What about Bitcoinia.

If they can controll the market and know for sure how it will go.
They can earn quite much by betting on it.

[NamelessOne]

It doesn't need to me malicious to be manipulation.

Pick up a dictionary:

ma·nip·u·late   /məˈnɪpyəˌleɪt/  Show Spelled[muh-nip-yuh-leyt]  Show IPA
verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1. to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner.

(bolded for emphasis)

And I'm saying it doesnt matter if they are purposefully 'being malicious' or just 'trying to make money' it is still manipulation. How about you read the dictionary yourself, there is nothing 'fair' about a 17000btc wall and selling 10000btc at once to drop the price. You posting the dictionary just proved my point.

[Jixtreme]

And I'm saying it doesnt matter if they are purposefully 'being malicious' or just 'trying to make money' it is still manipulation. How about you read the dictionary yourself, there is nothing 'fair' about a 17000btc wall and selling 10000btc at once to drop the price. You posting the dictionary just proved my point.

What a joke!

If you truly believed there was no ulterior motive, you'd be calling him "The Conductor" or something without obvious negative connotation.

Instead, you idiots think there is intent to stop natural market motion for 'his' own greedy motives.

This guy is just playing the market, trying to make a buck, like the rest of us.

[Revalin]

Jixtreme, please read the OP and GTFO?  Your opinion has been well covered in other threads, and we'd like to get back to our discussion.

I personally don't believe in The Manipulator as presented (using bid/ask walls to corral the market), since all I've seen there is evidence of a market being a market.  However, I'd like to dig into why some people do.  That's why I'm bringing out my charts: people are making lots of guesses at things they're seeing in the market depth, but I think it's mostly just from an incomplete picture.  I'm interested if people still see it when they're looking at the whole progression over time.

I do have an interesting manipulation theory of my own, but I want to finish hearing this one out first.

[bulanula]

It really is all a conspiracy against us. Government manipulates BTC price and makes it crash to levels like 1 dollar etc. -> mining becomes unprofitable -> miners quit -> government takes over network without 13 million needed worth of ATI cards etc. Simples !

The government is making cuts so they need to be clever with the $$$  

[Minsc]

Mining wouldn't cost that much electricity if we went back to CPU mining.  Solidcoin v2 changed the hash scheme to promote CPU mining.  Perhaps bitcoin should do likewise?

[bulanula]

Mining wouldn't cost that much electricity if we went back to CPU mining.  Solidcoin v2 changed the hash scheme to promote CPU mining.  Perhaps bitcoin should do likewise?

Bitcoin is the GOD !!! How dare you propose Scamcoin is better !?!? 

[NamelessOne]

And I'm saying it doesnt matter if they are purposefully 'being malicious' or just 'trying to make money' it is still manipulation. How about you read the dictionary yourself, there is nothing 'fair' about a 17000btc wall and selling 10000btc at once to drop the price. You posting the dictionary just proved my point.

What a joke!

If you truly believed there was no ulterior motive, you'd be calling him "The Conductor" or something without obvious negative connotation.

Instead, you idiots think there is intent to stop natural market motion for 'his' own greedy motives.

This guy is just playing the market, trying to make a buck, like the rest of us.

Of course he is playing the market for personal gain, that is kind of 'no shit' obvious. I don't speak for everyone but I've never said anything about conspiracy or 'ulterior motives' so attempting to paint me in that light isn't going to stick. If a person uses massive amounts of money to twist and turn an ENTIRE MARKET made up of thousands of people in order to make themselves more money, they are manipulating it UNFAIRLY, just as your posted definition of manipulation states. What are you going to reply next, a flip flop retraction of your 'read the dictionary' post? Perhaps you can just call us all idiots some more and impress us with your debating skills.

The term 'market manipulation' exists for a reason. It wasn't invented with BitCoin, or the speculation forum, and small markets such as BTC have the most potential to be manipulated. Every post you make weakens your own arguments. No shit the person probably just wants to make more money.  Stick to your trolling/mocking (though entertaining) prayer posts, you're better at those.