serious discussion on the strategy of the manipulator. Please no flame posts

[Revalin]

@Revalin: I read the OP, and the thread title, and I ignored it because I was foolish enough to believe I could talk sense into people on the internet. Truly, I am the naive one.

My way:  Listen to what they have to say with an open mind.  Give them some honest consideration.  Show them the facts the way I see them.  Give them a chance to show how their theory works.  We all get a chance to consider the merit of our ideas, and perhaps some opinions change.

Your way:  Tell them they're wrong.  State your opinion in all caps, but don't bother actually backing up your opinions with facts or data.  Become increasingly condescending in your tone, culminating in calling them idiots.  Finally act surprised that no one listens to you.

[1714187810]

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[ineededausername]

Major askwalls at 5.8, 6.0 are gone... manipulator is away for the moment.

[netrin]

If you stare at that second chart a little you can see that a previous resistance trendline is now a support.  Granted, the trendline is going downwards but still...

A daily gain against a monthly drop bouncing along a year long upward support.

My way:  Listen to what they have to say with an open mind.  Give them some honest consideration.  Show them the facts the way I see them.  Give them a chance to show how their theory works.  We all get a chance to consider the merit of our ideas, and perhaps some opinions change.

I nominate this guy for Grand Internet Poobah.

[Jixtreme]

@Revalin: I read the OP, and the thread title, and I ignored it because I was foolish enough to believe I could talk sense into people on the internet. Truly, I am the naive one.

My way:  Listen to what they have to say with an open mind.  Give them some honest consideration.  Show them the facts the way I see them.  Give them a chance to show how their theory works.  We all get a chance to consider the merit of our ideas, and perhaps some opinions change.

Your way:  Tell them they're wrong.  State your opinion in all caps, but don't bother actually backing up your opinions with facts or data.  Become increasingly condescending in your tone, culminating in calling them idiots.  Finally act surprised that no one listens to you.

I guess I just haven't hugged enough rainbows.

Harsh people exist. On this topic, I am one of them. I don't have to prove to others the LACK of existence of this mysterious, omnipresent, "The Manipulator." You have to prove his existence to me! And every time someone here tries and fails to conclusively do that, I am going to tell them why they're an idiot.

[netrin]

I don't have to prove to others the LACK of existence of this mysterious, omnipresent, "The Manipulator."

Correct. You do not.

You have to prove his existence to me!

Incorrect. Reread the first post for further explanation.

[TiagoTiago]

@Revalin: I read the OP, and the thread title, and I ignored it because I was foolish enough to believe I could talk sense into people on the internet. Truly, I am the naive one.

My way:  Listen to what they have to say with an open mind.  Give them some honest consideration.  Show them the facts the way I see them.  Give them a chance to show how their theory works.  We all get a chance to consider the merit of our ideas, and perhaps some opinions change.

Your way:  Tell them they're wrong.  State your opinion in all caps, but don't bother actually backing up your opinions with facts or data.  Become increasingly condescending in your tone, culminating in calling them idiots.  Finally act surprised that no one listens to you.

I guess I just haven't hugged enough rainbows.

Harsh people exist. On this topic, I am one of them. I don't have to prove to others the LACK of existence of this mysterious, omnipresent, "The Manipulator." You have to prove his existence to me! And every time someone here tries and fails to conclusively do that, I am going to tell them why they're an idiot.

Prove to me you exist.

[Jixtreme]

Prove to me you exist.

Okay Descartes

This isn't trying to prove the existence of God. This is proving the existence of a specific person with deep pockets, who is throwing large orders at the Bitcoin market with the intent of evoking a specific buy/sell response from other players. Seeing as how quickly and thoroughly Bruce Wagner was exposed, I don't think I'm asking too much.

[johnj]

Revalin:

I'm intrigued by your charts, but I'm having a hard time parsing them.  Can you break it down a little bit more?

[TiagoTiago]

The point of the thread is not to decide whether the manipulator exists or not; it is about, the behavior of the manipulator, regardless of whether he is hypothetical or real.

[NamelessOne]

Okay Descartes

This isn't trying to prove the existence of God. This is proving the existence of a specific person with deep pockets, who is throwing large orders at the Bitcoin market with the intent of evoking a specific buy/sell response from other players. Seeing as how quickly and thoroughly Bruce Wagner was exposed, I don't think I'm asking too much.
[/quote]



The existence of a rich person or people working together isn't even up for debate. Someone with HUGE pockets has massive walls up. Those walls are put up and and taken down instantly all the time, generally at key times when action is happening. If you haven't seen those, you shouldn't be commenting. The fact these massive walls appear and disappear instantly, along with how they are used, is plenty of proof that a very rich 'person' exists. You just seem to have a huge problem with them being called "The Manipulator" even though it fits with your provided definition. There was a massive 10000btc sell that crashed everything at 6.90 which may or may not have been the same person.  "His" exact goal can only be speculated, but that goal is really the only aspect that remains up for debate, not the "persons" existence. You can see the walls just like everyone else.

The 'twists and turns' caused to the market by "his" behavior aren't 'ulterior motives' or a hidden agenda, they are relatively CLEAR motives, almost blatant for the world to see. They would be ulterior if he made a public statement about his goals, and then did the opposite. Of course it isn't an ulterior motive, WE KNOW HE WANTS TO MAKE MONEY. Kind of clear, just like you said. So unless he honestly thinks that 17000btc wall will sell, he has a reason for keeping the price from getting any higher. He doesn't want it to go over 7, at least not yet, most likely because it will make him money 'playing the market' as you said. These walls have stopped rallies, massive 10000 coin sell offs have caused panic crashes. Perhaps you are suggesting that this "person" is ALSO an idiot (like everyone here according to you), because how can they expect to sell 17000btc in a massive rally stopping wall instead of spreading it out? But wait! Every single time the price gets close to his walls he removes them! So clearly he doesn't actually want to sell that that price. Thus we come back to manipulation and "their" strategy.

Purposefully playing with a small market with tons of money or doing so accidentally through ignorance achieves the same result. Calling it 'the manipulator' 'it' 'he' 'she' 'the conductor', it is all the same. The market is affected.  So what is your theory? All you've done is talk shit. Why is the 17000btc sitting there at $7? Why was the 12000btc sitting at $5 until yesterday when the price got close? Why has this been happening for almost two months? Why does "THE CONDUCTOR" make these walls? Please regale us with your 'non idiot' wisdom.

[speeder]

His wall always get torn down when we get close to them...

Thus the question: Why we do not mount a ORGANIZED rally, so that he is forced to remove his wall or let us buy it? (and thus cause a real rally).



It is obvious that part of his strategy is maintain the price where he wants, and do so by using fake walls... If we push HARD against those walls, we will break his strategy, and then we "win"



What we need to to is simple, gather lots of fiat, and then at a organized time, buy all BTC that we can... the spike will:

a) Scare the wall away.

or

b) Buy the wall away.



Of course, this has a potential flaw: People that know of the plan that do not believe in a real rally, might want to use us all buying BTC to create the spike, as a sure-fire way to dump all their BTC without causing a crash...

[netrin]

Of course it isn't an ulterior motive, WE KNOW HE WANTS TO MAKE MONEY. Kind of clear, just like you said.

Well, we do not know that. Not with certainty that justifies all caps.

Why we do not mount a ORGANIZED rally, so that he is forced to remove his wall or let us buy it?

A rally is an organized motion, in so far as a herd is organized.

[speeder]

Why we do not mount a ORGANIZED rally, so that he is forced to remove his wall or let us buy it?

A rally is an organized motion, in so far as a herd is organized.

Yes, I mean MORE organized than that.

[Minsc]

Why did he put a 3000ish coin buywall at 5.50, bumping the price way up today?

I wonder what's going to happen.  So far only one or two people took the bait and it has not climbed.

[klaus]

Why did he put a 3000ish coin buywall at 5.50, bumping the price way up today?

I wonder what's going to happen.  So far only one or two people took the bait and it has not climbed.

he's fine. he thought now, bitcoins are worth for him 5.5. no more no less. he bought 2000 btc at once, the rest remains in the orderbook. he's still there if you think you want to sell to him you can do.
5.5 is exactly the middle price today between 5.30 and 5.80 (optical at bitcoincharts.com). so what is the problem.
he wants to buy at this price. Why drop into the selling line and pay more? would you do? me not. this is no manipulator. if you have 25.000 US$ how would you buy bitcoins for it? drop into selling? ok. thats yours. not his style.

[322i0n]

that wall is obviously not just to buy coins as it could easily be at .20 or .30 lower and still absorb all sells.

[Minsc]

that wall is obviously not just to buy coins as it could easily be at .20 or .30 lower and still absorb all sells.

No one is selling either.  The market has been stagnating since last evening.  Perhaps The Manipulator is making it stagnate?

[klaus]

that wall is obviously not just to buy coins as it could easily be at .20 or .30 lower and still absorb all sells.

i've seen it live, the price was at 5.28. he drop them all until 5.5 that has been 2000 btc. finish. the rest has to sell to him. you can do. he's still there.

[klaus]

No one is selling either.

but that is not his false. if you want to sell at 5.5 you can do. why discuss? he want to buy at 5.5. finish.

this is no manipulator.

[ineededausername]

I like how when The Manipulator puts up askwalls people rightly point out his manipulation... but when he puts up a bidwall some people say, "Yeah, he just wants to buy."
uh-huh.