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Author Topic: Shrem's kidnapping reveals slavish mindset of "public Bitcoin figures"  (Read 4822 times)
btcusury (OP)
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February 05, 2014, 04:32:49 PM
 #1

As Rick Falkvinge points out:

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It becomes increasingly clear that the arrest of BitInstant CEO Charlie Shrem is a harassment arrest, intended to spread chilling effects, an arrest that has no judicial basis whatsoever but to demonstrate wielding of power by a repressive police system.

Indeed, this is a KIDNAPPING, not an arrest.

The funny thing is that even IF it were a genuine money laundering charge, Shrem would still be morally innocent, because the money was (allegedly) used to buy drugs, not to steal or murder or otherwise cause harm to someone.

If some guy in a suit who calls himself a "lawmaker" writes on a piece of paper that it is "unlawful" to eat chicken, and you are "caught" eating chicken and forcibly taken away from your home -- would you call that an "arrest" or a kidnapping?

Nobody is harmed by you eating chicken. Nobody was harmed by what Charlie Shrem is alleged to have done by people believing themselves to be "authority." If we assume the charges against Sherm are true, who exactly was harmed? The answer is obviously nobody.

(The charges are: one count of conspiring to commit money laundering, one count of operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, and one count of wilfully failing to file a suspicious activity report.)

As much as I like CoinDesk, they ran an article by a clueless/spineless Daniel Cawrey, who writes:

Quote
The reality is, it is Shrem’s alleged negligence, not the government’s actions, that got him into his current precarious position.

Really? So if I tell you that I'm the authority and you have to do as I say but you don't, and I then kidnap (arrest) you, it's your negligence, not my actions, that got you into such a precarious position? Who exactly grants me or people who say they are "the government" such "authority"? Cawrey hints at the answer a bit longer down the article:

"The [Bank Secrecy Act] gives FinCEN the authority under the auspices of the US Treasury to “determine emerging trends and methods in money laundering and other financial crimes”, according to the FinCEN website." - Oh, so a piece of paper, entitled Bank Secrecy Act, written by some self-serving "lawmakers," is what gives some people the right to initiate violent action against people who don't have that right. I see.

Cawrey continues:

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Bitcoin has a long way to go to reach credibility to a mainstream audience. As a result, Shrem’s alleged crimes are a detriment to everyone who is trying to build positive rapport within the cryptocurrency space.

The detriment is the slavish behavior too many in the community are displaying, as exemplified by this journalistic travesty by Cawrey. If all it takes is an accusation of some abstract victimless "crime" to take down one of our own, then we have already lost. You might as well sell all your bitcoins right now for some safe dollars. As a commenter to that article points out:

Quote
Extreme wrongdoing? Which part? The part where people are voluntarily and knowingly trading substances (which may or may not be mind-altering -- like thousands of products and drugs you can buy at your local pharmacy)? Or the part where people were smoking dope?

Or wait, the worst part -- the "extreme wrongdoing" -- is the guy who traded one currency unit for another currency unit to avoid being caught in the other aforementioned "wrongdoing"... Those are the bastards we gotta worry about!

This FUD subscribes to the same status-quo load of crap, all of the State's made-up, phony "crimes". Viewed by their "laws," everyone's doing something "illegal" everyday, and anyone the "authorities" don't like will be found to have mud on his shoes and be accused of "extreme wrongdoing".

We may have to live in a world (for the time being) where people continue to believe in witches, but (luckily) we don't have to pretend to believe in witches with them.

Exactly. Continue to believe in witches if you'd like, but the simple and obvious truth is that a man, innocent of any moral wrong-doing, has been unjustly kidnapped and is being threatened with 25 years in a cage. The fact that the people responsible call themselves "government" has no bearing on the facts. If it was the Mafia doing it nobody would find it acceptable.

As another commenter points out:

Quote
Shrem made the mistake of trying to have a business in America. The America Land of the Free as we once knew it is gone. Having any business in the United States today is risky if not an outright stupid endeavor. There are thousands of government workers getting paid to shut you down, harrass you, spy on you, bankrupt you, and lock you in a cage.

The Winklevoss twins, who invested in Shrem's BitInstant, had this to say upon learning of Shrem's arrest:

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We were passive investors in BitInstant and will do everything we can to help law enforcement officials. We fully support any and all governmental efforts to ensure that money laundering requirements are enforced, and look forward to clearer regulation being implemented on the purchase and sale of bitcoins.

It's one thing to state "we have no connection to Sherm's alleged illegal activities" but it's another to unthinkingly pander to the oppressor.

Should the public faces of Bitcoin be opportunists who worship at the altar of the state? I don't think so. Bitcoin is the most disruptive technology of our time, more disruptive than the Internet, as Andreas Antonopoulos and Stefan Molyneux eloquently explain from differing perspectives. It's people like these who should be the public faces of Bitcoin, not unthinking, cowardly, profit-driven weasels who support oppression if under the umbrella of "government."

The Bitcoin Foundation, a group that ostensibly aims to represent the interests of the Bitcoin community, offers no comment on the facts of the matter, choosing instead to distance itself from its now former member, implicitly making the ridiculous assumption that this kidnapping of one of their members has nothing to do with an attack on Bitcoin.

They -- the control freaks who believe they have authority over other people (exclusive rights) -- are obviously paying a lot more attention to Bitcoin now, this kidnapping happening about the same time as the NY hearings and Gavin's CFR meeting. What all thinking people of conscience should be doing is vocally supporting Shrem, not assuming he's "guilty as charged" and a "bad apple" in the Bitcoin community. If we blindly accept the oppressive "laws" of the system whose greatest threat is cryptocurrencies, rather than guide ourselves by morality and natural law, then they have a chance of destroying/controlling Bitcoin. If we unthinkingly act this way, then it's only a matter of time before they kidnap the next top Bitcoin person.

As Falkvinge says:

Quote
This is a harassment arrest apparently intended to intimidate and associate “bitcoin”, “silk road”, “drugs”, and “money laundering” with each other, and the community should take exactly none of this nonsense and this repression. At this point, it’s important to stand up for the bitcoin community and for Shrem against a harassment arrest.

If we don't stand up for Shrem, we are complete idiots waiting for the next blow.

FACT: There were hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths by December 2020 due to the censorship of all effective treatments (most notably ivermectin) in order to obtain EUA for experimental GT spike protein injections despite spike bioweaponization patents going back about a decade, and the manufacturers have 100% legal immunity despite long criminal histories.
btcusury (OP)
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February 05, 2014, 06:03:33 PM
 #2

A valid point if true, though you forgot the "allegedly."

But did he really "turn around and break the rules he agreed to play by"? Or did he simply not do anything (negligence) because he felt that there was nothing wrong with what was happening? That seems to be the case with charges 1 and 3 (conspiracy to commit money laundering, failing to file a suspicious activity report).

Remember to separate legal "wrong-doing" from moral wrong-doing.

So, can you elucidate in which way he "turned around and broke the rules he agreed to play by"?

FACT: There were hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths by December 2020 due to the censorship of all effective treatments (most notably ivermectin) in order to obtain EUA for experimental GT spike protein injections despite spike bioweaponization patents going back about a decade, and the manufacturers have 100% legal immunity despite long criminal histories.
justusranvier
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February 05, 2014, 11:11:06 PM
 #3

Indeed, this is a KIDNAPPING, not an arrest.
There is no difference between the two.

The fact that some kidnappers wear costumes does not change their actions from kidnapping to something that isn't kidnapping. Clothing isn't magical.
BTCisthefuture
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February 06, 2014, 03:02:36 AM
 #4

Moral issues aside,  if you choose to not follow known rules you take the risk of getting in trouble.

I haven't seen anything to suggest he was doing this for any other reason than to make a quick buck.  If he was doing it for "moral" reasons though,  I would have to assume his money would be more well spent lobbying to have certain laws changed ,  not much progress or help you can do if you're sitting in a jail cell.

I don't think non violent people should go to prison, I wish him the best of luck. With that said, he knows the rules  and risks and chose to play them how he wanted.

Hourly bitcoin faucet with a gambling twist !  http://freebitco.in/?r=106463
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February 06, 2014, 03:17:50 AM
 #5

Shrem sold himself out to 'the man' than tried to get clever.

He fucked himself.


Typical kids with spines of a jellyfish.
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February 06, 2014, 03:21:38 AM
 #6

This is why all alt-coins should stay decentralized...
Revelations86
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February 06, 2014, 05:15:58 AM
 #7

Putting the issue aside of whether people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves.  He screwed over his own partner and his investors by engaging in activity that he said he would not engage in especially holding the title of Chief Compliance Officer.  BitInstant could have been what CoinBase is today and greater.  It's like asking people for money to invest in my coin and then going and using it for other purposes than to develop the coin.   He screwed himself over and the stakeholders of his company out of potential future revenue.
TheFootMan
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February 06, 2014, 12:57:32 PM
 #8

Typical kids with spines of a jellyfish.

Well put.

I would add:

What goes around, comes around.

I've seen this countless times in life. Sooner or later, those who act in a certain way will face consequences.


He's done a great service to the community with his company, and if he stuck to doing business the 'right way', he would probably still be doing it.
btcusury (OP)
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February 06, 2014, 02:06:36 PM
 #9

Indeed, this is a KIDNAPPING, not an arrest.
There is no difference between the two.

The fact that some kidnappers wear costumes does not change their actions from kidnapping to something that isn't kidnapping. Clothing isn't magical.
The difference is psychological, not physical. When you hear of someone being arrested, you react in a certain conditioned way (hmm, what did he do?). In contrast, hearing of someone being kidnapped sparks emotions like empathy. And if Shrem didn't engage in any moral wrong-doing, then it's more accurate to say that he was kidnapped, rather than arrested.


You lost all credibility at the second word in your title.

Shrem consciously broke money laundering laws he agreed to get licensed.

Not only did he break the law, he documented it in email while instructing others to do the same thing.

Just because you don't happen to agree with the law doesn't invalidate that law as Shrem will find out sitting the next 20-30 years in a US federal prison.

~BCX~

So you're saying that just because you don't happen to agree with the law against eating chicken, that doesn't invalidate that law?

Why would you take an abstract idea like a piece of legislation as the authority over your own moral reasoning? Are you unconsciously surrendering your sovereignty and freedom to a piece of paper written by some self-serving weasel in a suit? Or am I reading you wrong?




Can someone who believes Shrem got what he deserved explain what he did wrong, morally?


FACT: There were hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths by December 2020 due to the censorship of all effective treatments (most notably ivermectin) in order to obtain EUA for experimental GT spike protein injections despite spike bioweaponization patents going back about a decade, and the manufacturers have 100% legal immunity despite long criminal histories.
Trance
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February 06, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
 #10

Shrem is giving BTC a bad name, buying drugs off the Silk Road, laundering money and knowingly letting unlawful things slide by his attention!

This is bad publicity for BTCitcoins network, but they are just trying to use Shrem as a international example for others involving themselves in illegal festivities within the US

Some people are so poor ALL they have is money
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February 06, 2014, 02:26:02 PM
 #11

Shrem is giving BTC a bad name, buying drugs off the Silk Road, laundering money and knowingly letting unlawful things slide by his attention!

This is bad publicity for BTCitcoins network, but they are just trying to use Shrem as a international example for others involving themselves in illegal festivities within the US

bitcoin was had the silk road propaganda for years. so really it is not that damaging, it is just trying to keep the propaganda machine fuelled to the same level.

i do agree they are using shrem as a President so show other exchanges that the US government does not take money laudering lightly. but the failure in this scheme of theirs, if the first post of this thread is to be believed (concerning the alleged broken laws):

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and one count of wilfully failing to file a suspicious activity report.

only licenced money transmitters are required to file SAR reports by law.. which must mean he had a licence, to have failed his duties under the licence.. which counter-acts this alleged crime:

Quote
one count of operating an unlicensed money transmitting business,

.... i am now intrigued and might start looking deeper into the facts of this, as something does not look right

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Elwar
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February 06, 2014, 02:27:55 PM
 #12

The people in the suits that write things on paper have the "right" to kidnap you because they have more guns and weapons at their disposal than you do.

That is the only thing that matters.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
techstorm2
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February 06, 2014, 02:34:13 PM
 #13

Putting the issue aside of whether people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves.  He screwed over his own partner and his investors by engaging in activity that he said he would not engage in especially holding the title of Chief Compliance Officer.  BitInstant could have been what CoinBase is today and greater.  It's like asking people for money to invest in my coin and then going and using it for other purposes than to develop the coin.   He screwed himself over and the stakeholders of his company out of potential future revenue.

whos the chief compliance officer of HSBC or Wachovia or JP morgan, is he still at large or caged? hhhmmm

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augustocroppo
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February 06, 2014, 03:49:38 PM
 #14

Can someone who believes Shrem got what he deserved explain what he did wrong, morally?

What Shrem deserve is up to a court of justice to decide, not me, you or anyone else. Moreover, he did not made anything morally wrong. This is not about his moral views, this is about the agreement he made with the authorities. He promised to comply with certain requirements and failed to keep up with the promise. In other words, he agreed to play by certain rules and was caught cheating. Now a court of justice will decide what punishment he will receive. I personally think he will not be jailed. He is going to be offered the opportunity to help the authorities collect evidence to build other cases. The authorities know that is much better having him around to help them rather than having he locked in a jail for the next decades.
augustocroppo
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February 06, 2014, 04:22:25 PM
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Can someone who believes Shrem got what he deserved explain what he did wrong, morally?

What Shrem deserve is up to a court of justice to decide, not me, you or anyone else. Moreover, he did not made anything morally wrong. This is not about his moral views, this is about the agreement he made with the authorities. He promised to comply with certain requirements and failed to keep up with the promise. In other words, he agreed to play by certain rules and was caught cheating. Now a court of justice will decide what punishment he will receive. I personally think he will not be jailed. He is going to be offered the opportunity to help the authorities collect evidence to build other cases. The authorities know that is much better having him around to help them rather than having he locked in a jail for the next decades.

When exactly did he agree of his own free will to comply with those requirements? He was TOLD that he would follow those rules, or he would be thrown in a cage.

Most likely when his company applied to be a money transmitter business. Do you think compliance is just a verbal agreement? I am certain that there is a document with his signature where he declares to be aware of the requirements made by the authorities.
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February 06, 2014, 08:06:04 PM
 #16

The weight of his crimes don't matter much. Shrem and other high profile bitcoiners are more dangerous to the Goldman Sachs establishment than the president of Syria. So that tiran is out and Shrem is in. And he stays in. Later they will create some Guantanamo bay-ish place for us. CU there! 
Denton
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February 06, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
 #17

The mainstream has a slavish mindset, that's why Bitcoin needs a slavish face to go mainstream. In the meantime things like dark wallet will continue to develop and empower bitcoin users.

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February 06, 2014, 10:47:14 PM
 #18



That's something we can agree on. Shrem isn't really anything like them. Still, he's being charged with victimless crimes, and it's bullshit.


Victimless crime LOL

There's no such thing.


~BCX~

There are very few crimes out of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in the world, that aren't victimless.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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February 06, 2014, 11:47:25 PM
 #19

The weight of his crimes don't matter much. Shrem and other high profile bitcoiners are more dangerous to the Goldman Sachs establishment than the president of Syria. So that tiran is out and Shrem is in. And he stays in. Later they will create some Guantanamo bay-ish place for us. CU there! 

The delusions of nerds....thinks they are important enough to warrant imprisonment in guantanamo

LOL
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February 07, 2014, 03:59:16 AM
 #20

You're one of those people that get it, but will argue to the point of stupidity to keep from admitting it.

If Nike shoes were illegal to purchase, then yes I would say hunt the "shoe buyers" down. But it isn't illegal.

As far as the dope smokers, if it is legal, like in Colorado, then no.
But in let's say Texas, yes then society and the rule of law is violated.
perfect example of no matter how you disagree with the law, it is still the law.


Anyway let's get back to Shrem.
He is in no way a "political prisoner", he is a scum bag that caught and his victims are the customers and others who worked hard to make Bitinstant what it was. He will fry because when the US Federal Government nails you, you're nailed.


~BCX~





So you'd support hunting them down just because the government says it's illegal?  No other reason needed?
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