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Author Topic: Gavin and TruCoin  (Read 6212 times)
bulanula
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September 22, 2011, 12:26:10 AM
 #21

On one hand, sure it's open source.
On the other hand, it's a very few people that control the client and hence blockchain.
That blockchain is worth ~$41,000,000 at the moment.

Bitcoin (and clones) is far from decentralized, that has been proven quite nicely in the alternative cryptographies forum lately.  He (or they) who control the client wields a tremendous amount of power over the chain.

Finally somebody with a cortex around here.
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September 22, 2011, 12:42:45 AM
 #22

@viperjbm   "Allow them"?? Who decides? Who decides who gets to decided?

Let me show you the fallacy of your fantisy.

viperjbm I say you cant post to this forum any longer unless you provide this community with your social security number, the license plate number of your car and the time frame your away from your house at work. Oh dont forget to include the days your away from your house at work too. We dont know, you might be a agent provocateur trying to influence this community for a nefarius objective cloaked in the stealth of assisting the community by assassinating the reputation of a senior member of this community.

Dont like that? Does it make you feel vulnerable? Does it make you feel some other way? You dont get to decide how others feel about providing any personal information. What if you say you wont provide that information and I am able to convince this community to enforcing those demands? Would you just leave the community?

Freedom has its price. Sometimes that price is accepting something you dont like or exercising your right not to be apart of that community. Freedom means I have the right not to tell you personal information. Freedom does not mean you have the right to others personal information no matter how it affects others.

viperjbm your view is so myopic you cant see the simple solution. Dont use the protoloc or client that might possiblly be  biased. If the network doesnt adopt the protocol then the protocol is ineffectual and meaningless. This is freedom at work. Those that wont to use protocol X will leave behind those that dont use protocol X. This may lead to a fork of the chain.

I think few people think beyond 3 months. 5 maybe 10 years from now there will many 'Xcoins' and they will be driven ideology,  technology and value. Anyway you cut it btc suffers from two design short comings. One being that there will be too few coins to meet demend, and two, dividing a coin beyond 3 decimal points becomes error prone for the average user. This leaves room in the market for coins that are proportional the the value of btc. Its much easier to pay with 300 'Xcoin' instead of 0.00000300 btc, and the obverse is true.

Until this perceived phantom threat arrives, those calling for greater disclosure are just Chick Littles, wetting their pants claiming the sky is falling.




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September 22, 2011, 01:05:16 AM
 #23

I personally think it would be bad form for Gavin to pimp the company he works for in his signature, this would be something more suited to a personal bio page. The success of Bitcoin absolutely requires the dev lead to be whiter than white, which IMO Gavin is and always has been.
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September 22, 2011, 01:28:01 AM
 #24

After reading though, I've changed my position.

Gavin does free work and should be allowed to promote his paid work just like everyone else on the forum.  It's just a signature - it's not like he has a huge thread promoting TruCoin.

I think the forum signature is fine.  If someone wants to promote a competing service, no one is stopping them

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genjix
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September 22, 2011, 05:11:40 AM
 #25

This is not a big deal and completely standard in open source communities. We all love the software and so try to find ways to work on it full time.
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September 22, 2011, 06:39:58 AM
 #26

I don't see this as a negative thing at all. Quite the opposite, it's a very positive development.
+1

I don't see how being confronted with real-world uses of a program can hurt a developer. If anything, that will improve his work.

He is very motivated to keep bitcoin up and running, arguably more than if it was just a side-gig.

And him being transparent about it is also good. No reason to have to remove it from his signature...

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September 22, 2011, 07:26:56 AM
 #27

RE: putting my employer in my forum signature:  what do other people think? Would that be unfair advertising for TruCoin or good full disclosure?
The latter.

This is not a big deal and completely standard in open source communities. We all love the software and so try to find ways to work on it full time.
+1. It's great when someone develops wonderful things voluntarily in his spare time. It's even better when someone develops wonderful things as a full-time job.

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September 22, 2011, 12:43:11 PM
 #28

Now you all know why Satoshi chose to disappear. Some people are more trouble than they're worth.

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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September 22, 2011, 04:09:30 PM
 #29

Is TruCoin involved in mining by any chance ?

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September 22, 2011, 06:30:06 PM
 #30

Threads like this make me really wish that there was a way for people to sign up to my ignore list directly, and skip the extra steps of them having to write insane garbage and me having to read it.

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I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
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September 22, 2011, 09:39:54 PM
 #31

Threads like this make me really wish that there was a way for people to sign up to my ignore list directly, and skip the extra steps of them having to write insane garbage and me having to read it.

Be thankful that you're not a mod, then.  Whenever someone clicks, "Report to Moderator" I get a copy of this crap in my email.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 23, 2011, 12:28:55 PM
 #32

Is TruCoin involved in mining by any chance ?

http://www.trucoin.com/

They have a products list on the site:  Exchange, Ewallet, store and more.

Yes, with the lead developer working for a private company it won't be long before the people who control the client are also the people that control the exchanges and ewallets. Then when Bank of America buys a controlling share in Trucoin and winds down the business, you're all fucked.

3 updates to their webpage since August 27th hardly puts me in mind of a hive of activity and exciting new projects they want to tell the world about. Maybe there's no updates since everything they're doing is hush hush rather than free and open, but that's the business world for you I guess...
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September 23, 2011, 12:34:23 PM
 #33

Is TruCoin involved in mining by any chance ?

http://www.trucoin.com/

They have a products list on the site:  Exchange, Ewallet, store and more.

Yes, with the lead developer working for a private company it won't be long before the people who control the client are also the people that control the exchanges and ewallets. Then when Bank of America buys a controlling share in Trucoin and winds down the business, you're all fucked.

Stop panicking and spreading unnecessary paranoia.
This is open source world. The "old" ways don't apply.

As long as we have the Bitcoin source, nobody(or everybody) controls the currency. No company can take over an open source project. Ever.

wumpus
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September 23, 2011, 02:18:40 PM
 #34

Yes, with the lead developer working for a private company it won't be long before the people who control the client are also the people that control the exchanges and ewallets. Then when Bank of America buys a controlling share in Trucoin and winds down the business, you're all fucked.
Gavin does not "control the client". He's the figurehead of bitcoin, sure, but everyone with enough time/resources and the necessary skill could fork or and build a better client. If it's much better the original client could be marginalized.

(This happened on other P2P networks as well. Does anyone still use the original bittorrent client?)

So it's really doubtful that there is a conflict of interest here. Just let the man do what he does and mind your own business :p

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September 23, 2011, 02:23:30 PM
 #35

Yes, with the lead developer working for a private company it won't be long before the people who control the client are also the people that control the exchanges and ewallets. Then when Bank of America buys a controlling share in Trucoin and winds down the business, you're all fucked.
Gavin does not "control the client". He's the figurehead of bitcoin, sure, but everyone with enough time/resources and the necessary skill could fork or and build a better client. If it's much better the original client could be marginalized.

(This happened on other P2P networks as well. Does anyone still use the original bittorrent client?)


So, what you're saying is that somebody could do things to the original client that would make it a lesser client, but at the same time create or enhance a forked client?
wumpus
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September 23, 2011, 02:25:23 PM
 #36

So, what you're saying is that somebody could do things to the original client that would make it a lesser client, but at the same time create or enhance a forked client?
No, the original client would not become worse. It would simply slowly become less popular. Again, the same happened to bittorrent.

I'm not saying that this will happen, but it means that Gavin's power over bitcoin is not absolute.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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September 23, 2011, 02:27:59 PM
 #37

So, what you're saying is that somebody could do things to the original client that would make it a lesser client, but at the same time create or enhance a forked client?
No, the original client would not become worse. It would simply slowly become less popular.


Right, the project is still open-source so if Gavin shows us a better client and it becomes popular, then maybe he will get some competition... er, HELP developing the core  Grin

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wumpus
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September 23, 2011, 02:30:14 PM
 #38

Well the contrasting option would be if bitcoin had wired-in kill switches and backdoors so that he could control the network. Some alternative chains have this. Obviously (and luckily), this is not the case for bitcoin.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
ShadowOfHarbringer
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September 23, 2011, 03:11:26 PM
 #39

Well the contrasting option would be if bitcoin had wired-in kill switches and backdoors so that he could control the network. Some alternative chains have this. Obviously (and luckily), this is not the case for bitcoin.

I can probably easily detect something very suspicious in code when I analyse small parts of it, and I am not ever a proper C/C++ programmer.

Imagine what an experienced, "everyday-C++" guy can do given a week of time. Perhaps even review entire code for backdoors.

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September 23, 2011, 05:01:54 PM
 #40

(This happened on other P2P networks as well. Does anyone still use the original bittorrent client?)
Well, bittorrent was an inclusionary protocol. Bitcoin is the opposite: explicit exclusionary protocol.

Anyway, I just checked the blame on lines 1297 down to 1307:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blame/master/src/main.cpp

Gavin Andresen had wisely ceded the signature control over checkpoints to fabianhjr. Hopefully Fabian resides in a country that doesn't have an adversarial legal system.


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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