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Mike011 (OP)
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June 25, 2018, 01:52:01 PM
 #1

In relation to this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3628532.0


Some say that it is ok to advertise suspicious products on this forum and that the senior members warnings are enough and that each individual is responsible for his own investments. This is partly true. Why partly? Because even though we are all responsible for our investmebts, this forum still stays as a method of delivering such scams, ie making them possible, intentionally or not. Senior member warnings are enough investment wise. However, if there are no details about the advertised product (be it scam or not), thread should be locked until proof is presented. If there is no proof (video of the device in action, face, name and the address of the individual/company that is producing, etc) thread should be locked for good, and person should be tagged a scammer or banned permanently. This is not a brain surgery, please keep the things simple and effective and above all, try to keep the name and the reputation of this forum clean.
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June 25, 2018, 03:08:35 PM
 #2

Here is my reply from the other thread:

That's like blaming the post office for sending you the lottery win scams.

Also:

video of the device in action, face, name and the address of the individual/company that is producing, etc

None of this is proof of legitimacy. In fact, some of the biggest crypto scams (one is in my sig) would have been perfectly fine according to this criteria. False sense of safety can be worse than encouraging users to engage their brains.
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June 25, 2018, 03:41:01 PM
 #3

I have never received any "lottery scams" via my post office. What are you talking about? You must be living in a very scammy state. Also, if you are ok with this forum being known as a scammer`s paradise, be my guest, because i can`t see any will from your side to even try to put an end to this.
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June 25, 2018, 04:06:20 PM
 #4

I have never received any "lottery scams" via my post office.

It's a famous method and was very popular 10-15 years back no matter the country. You could receive once per month and a lot of people failed in the trap. Usually senior people, unfortunately. Nowadays it's very less popular but instead, they call you at home directly, I received such calls sometimes 3 times per week. And when it wasn't a lottery it was because I won a dinner in a fancy restaurant

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June 25, 2018, 04:10:07 PM
 #5

Interesting... It must have died out because it was a scam. And because someone did something about it.
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June 25, 2018, 04:10:23 PM
 #6

I have never received any "lottery scams" via my post office. What are you talking about? You must be living in a very scammy state. Also, if you are ok with this forum being known as a scammer`s paradise, be my guest, because i can`t see any will from your side to even try to put an end to this.

What I'm saying is that you're not offering a viable solution. Who's going to establish the criteria for what is a scam and what isn't? Who's going to enforce it? There are many aspects of this that you're not even trying to address beyond "the forum should do something".

There are many scams in the mail. You're lucky that you're not getting them but they don't bother me much because they go straight into the shredder. The point is - I DON'T WANT the post office to check my mail for possible scams. That's not the same as not wanting the scams to end.
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June 25, 2018, 04:28:21 PM
 #7

When I got to the forum, I very early on got acquainted with the idea of the community policing itself. I went and checked out the thread in question, and it was clear in the first 3 pages that is what was going on. Here is a great example.

OP.  I would be willing to review if necessary.  Im sure Phil would be willing to review himself.. and he's the better candidate.

until then, I will remain more skeptical than the above replies are.

And a follow up.


YES, I was a guarantee of a real product reviewed by a trusted member.
and most of all, I want PROOF of a product as described BEFORE taking or requesting ANY payment; as well as GUARANTEED shipping/receiving terms; even if its no guarantee or promise whatsoever.  at least you would be honest about it.

Just like anyone else out there that is interested, I would want to purchase one: if what you say is true.
Everything else you say means nothing if the product is just a scam or a ruse... because you are simply trying to push a product;  that's not being manufactured yet.... you haven't reached a manufacturing agreement even, you haven't sent any review samples out.... it's all hot air and fancy photos.

Do you understand me now?

Look at the history of miners that have been introduced and marketed the same way you are doing it now.  Now, look at how many of those "miners" are actually retail/purchasable products OR that have existed at one point.....    At most 1 out of 15-20 of them is an actual product now.

Look at how Pandaminer came about and was first introduced to us;  and subsequently, what steps they took.

Take note.  We are watching.  We are willing to purchase if it is worth it.


It may seem like I am being pushy, or harassing you:

What I am really doing is I'm trying to hand you the key to a successful sale;  should the product be legitimate.  I suggest you be extremely transparent from now on.

I understand the feeling of wanting more to be done to protect people, but you can only put up so many flashing lights, and warnings before people become complacent with the notion of "safe".
Honestly history has also shown us that the scams and scammers will either evolve, or just try the same thing and see what sticks. Regulating the forum further won't make much difference, people just have to stop breathe and make an informed decision, which includes listening to older forum members who have seen these scams in the past.

As far as I'm concerned members provided all the warnings necessary. I'm sorry to hear anyone got taken, but it now has to be a learning experience and used to move forward and help police the community by asking questions and taking statements with a grain of salt.




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June 26, 2018, 04:45:39 AM
 #8

Interesting... It must have died out because it was a scam. And because someone did something about it.

Post office based scams died out because it is cheaper for scammers to use the internet rather than having to buy postage to scam people.

Scam lotteries and Ponzi scams used to be sent via mail.

Like LeGaulois said it was popular 10-15 years ago in all countries.

Us oldies remember. I remember the days that computers used to have tape drives, 16kb of RAM, 1200 baud modems and cellphones couldn't SMS...prior to that there were no home computers or cellphones....


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June 26, 2018, 05:55:55 AM
 #9

There have been many examples of scams in the past in which the full identity of the scammers identity was known. In fact some of the largest scams in Bitcoin's history involve people whose identity is public.

Many scams also start out to be legitimate businesses, and the owner was either planning on a long con, or the business looses access to its assets and passes those losses onto its customers.

In the example in the OP, the thread may as well have involved someone who has access to a small number of machines he was claiming to be selling, but would take payment for many more machines than he produces, he could sell the machines for several months, and subsequently stop production even though he continues to accept payments for the machines, he could take payment for the machines, and not deliver them until they are close to the end of their useful life. Or whoever is "confirming" it is not a scam could be corrupt or get fooled.

I agree if we implemented what you describe would probably reduce the number of scams, but the losses would be much greater.
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June 26, 2018, 06:09:29 AM
 #10

Are you paying for this site to make a good security for you? I can't blame someone would demand it but that's why 'each individual is responsible for his own investment' because this is Internet and anyone can do whatever they want, if you know what I mean.




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June 26, 2018, 08:26:07 AM
Merited by suchmoon (5), LTU_btc (1)
 #11

each individual is responsible for his own investments


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June 26, 2018, 08:52:05 AM
 #12

...if there are no details about the advertised product (be it scam or not), thread should be locked until proof is presented. If there is no proof (video of the device in action, face, name and the address of the individual/company that is producing, etc) thread should be locked for good...

19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).
End of story I guess  Grin

Be happy be at peace. Looking forward to BTC at $1M
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