Florida men arrested for trading bitcoins!!!!

[instructor2121]

This was on coindesk...what does everyone think?

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/

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[phinzphan]

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/florida-targets-high-dollar-bitcoin-exchangers/


"According to court documents, the agent told Michelhack that he wanted to use the Bitcoins to purchase stolen credit cards online. After that trust-building transaction, Michelhack allegedly agreed to handle a much larger deal: Converting $30,000 in cash into Bitcoins."

there's the real story.

[instructor2121]

That makes more sense now...Didnt see your post earlier about this

[acoindr]

We're also discussing this here How to NOT be a victim of a sting operation

[oOoOo]

WOW! My predictions are coming true much faster than even I could have imagined!

This is just from a few days ago:

The U.S. is a fascist police state. Stick around at your own risk. This goes for anyone btw, not just BTC hodlers.

edit: btw. they could arrest anyone who ever held a bitcoin. Just claim that they were transferred to you one time from a s/d address. The burden of proof is on you. To hell with the constitution and habeas corpus!
.

and:

I said it before and I'll say it again: Bitcoin will NEVER be outlawed in the U.S. or anywhere in the "western world".

They will, rather, use their massive surveillance apparatus to silently show up one morning at your house, shoot your dog, and "arrest" you for your alleged "connection" to s/d. This is much easier for them and you see a very similar thing already happening to protesters in Europe and around the world.
Your guns/plane-tickets should rather be ready before that happens!

Scary stuff...

[cryptoanarchist]

It looks like we're heading into a full scale currency war now.

The feds cannot win, but they're going to hurt a lot of people on their way down.

[Nathonas]

It's pretty simple really. You can use Bitcoins in the US, just don't use them for any kind of illegal or criminal activity. This is no different from someone using fiat to buy stolen credit cards, drugs, fake passport, etc etc. I'd imagine that the government loves busting people that use Bitcoins for illegal activities because it gives them proof to paint Bitcoin as an evil criminal currency.

[BCB]

It's pretty simple really. You can use Bitcoins in the US, just don't use them for any kind of illegal or criminal activity. This is no different from someone using fiat to buy stolen credit cards, drugs, fake passport, etc etc. I'd imagine that the government loves busting people that use Bitcoins for illegal activities because it gives them proof to paint Bitcoin as an evil criminal currency.

+1

[sirhashalot]

What's being left out is the fact the the under cover officer made it clear that he was exchanging Bitcoins to engage in a criminal activity.


~BCX~

Yeah, because the police would never make false statements, plant evidence, invent probable cause, or lie to the media in pursuit of a headline-grabbing sting operation with no element of public service to it.

[BTCLuke]

Yeah, because the police would never make false statements, plant evidence, invent probable cause, or lie to the media in pursuit of a headline-grabbing sting operation with no element of public service to it.

The evidence would come up in court. If the cop isn't recording it to say "look there, he knew!" then it would be on the cop to prove him wrong when he says "Nobody said shit about a crime..."

[instructor2121]

I guess when selling BTC, you must disclose"I can not sell these to you if you will be engaged in ANY illegal activity" just to cover yourself.

[sirhashalot]

The evidence would come up in court. If the cop isn't recording it to say "look there, he knew!" then it would be on the cop to prove him wrong when he says "Nobody said shit about a crime..."

It's cute that you actually believe that.

[tvbcof]

Firstly, it is good to make clear in no uncertain terms that a transaction is business only.  At least until it is accomplished.  I'm sure the hints about avoiding entrapment cover that since it is kind of a no-brainer.

Secondly, if I was stupid enough to make a transaction after a guy blathered on about his criminal intent and found myself in hot water, my defense would be that when when the guy claimed to be a criminal I considered it most likely that he was lying/bragging (and thus not worth wasting some authorities time by reporting it) but also unsafe to back out of a transaction in case he was not lying.

Thirdly, it probably is genuinely dumb to operate an ongoing arbitrage operation using localbitcoins since there may be a credible requirement to KYC at that point.  In my personal case I am simply selling down an asset I've owned for years so I theorized that I would be safe enough selling on localbitcoins, but as it happens the market is typically not suitable for my usecase and Coinbase is working well for me so far.  And localbitcoins had some bug on my browser when I considered it.  (Note the 'I theorize' part.  IANAL.)

[russokai]

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/florida-targets-high-dollar-bitcoin-exchangers/


"According to court documents, the agent told Michelhack that he wanted to use the Bitcoins to purchase stolen credit cards online. After that trust-building transaction, Michelhack allegedly agreed to handle a much larger deal: Converting $30,000 in cash into Bitcoins."

there's the real story.

Nope that's not the real story at all.  That's just something they added to make the case slightly stronger.  And to confuse easily confused people.

These guys were arrested for trading bitcoins in FL.  Even $301 worth would have made it an "illegal" act and they could have been arrested.

[bryant.coleman]

F***ng FBI and their sting operations. I hope these lowlifes will burn in hell for ever.

[seriouscoin]

The first charge i can understand altho i dont agree with most AML (its being lobbied by financial institutes)

The BULLSHIT charge is this

The second is running an unlicensed money transmission business. Statute 560.125 forbids people from exgaging in frequent unlicensed money transmission-type transactions of more than $300 but less than $20,000 in any 12-month period in the state.

WTF is money transmission type ? Obviously prosecutor will throw this BS charge out there knowing public defense is a useless lawyer.

Define what is bitcoin first, you fcking piece of shit. Buying high end electronic/audio parts frequently can easily be over $20,000 in year, does that mean i will be charged?

Because of this, i doubt the evidence regarding "committing a crime with bitcoin"

[oOoOo]

It's pretty simple really. You can use Bitcoins in the US, just don't use them for any kind of illegal or criminal activity.

Dude! Have you ever heard the term Parallel Construction?
Their only goal is to make money off of you, and they will make up any BS they can to get as much extorted out of you as they can!

I'd imagine that the government loves busting people that use Bitcoins for illegal activities because it gives them proof to paint Bitcoin as an evil criminal currency.

And that's already happening. Sooner or later they will come after everyone holding a bitcoin for "money laundering". There are ~15-20,000 bitcoin users in the U.S. and believe me, these "law enforcers" will spend all the money and all the effort they can to get every one of us. There was silk road, and they will make up more BS "laws" to come after small-time bitcoin users as well. Watch out!

Yeah, because the police would never make false statements, plant evidence, invent probable cause, or lie to the media in pursuit of a headline-grabbing sting operation with no element of public service to it.

This is the reality...

[Lethn]

When you can find me somebody who has been arrested for Bitcoin use who isn't also being arrested for something that's blatantly illegal as well then I'll get concerned, but to me if these people are committing fraud or dealing in drugs etc. then eventually they're going to end up hurting somebody here the more they think they can get away with it.

Not much sympathy I'm afraid, let me know when somebody I've actually chatted to on these forums gets arrested for no reason and looking at earlier posts it would definitely be something if it turned out that they were faking the illegal stuff and are just harassing Bitcoin users, we'll see what happens.

[BTCisthefuture]

Another case of someone breaking the law,  and giving bitcoin a bad name as a result.  This gets in the news cause it has to do with bitcion,  but really it's a story of someone willingly and knowingly breaking the law.  If it was done with dollars and euro's it wouldn't be in the news. Add bitcoin to the mix and it's in the news 

[yatsey87]

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/florida-targets-high-dollar-bitcoin-exchangers/


"According to court documents, the agent told Michelhack that he wanted to use the Bitcoins to purchase stolen credit cards online. After that trust-building transaction, Michelhack allegedly agreed to handle a much larger deal: Converting $30,000 in cash into Bitcoins."

there's the real story.

So can you not sell people anything if they tell you it's gonna be used for ilegal things? Surely you're not responsible for what they do with it.