Make a real ATM

[cbeast]

Can't someone just make a Bitcoin ATM that works like a real bank ATM. That is you register for a wallet and only get one wallet address. You can deposit and withdraw from that wallet, but can't send to any other address unless it is in your wallet. Additional paper wallets could be issued from a deterministic wallet, but would not be transferable to another wallet within that ATM system. If funds were to be moved, they would be treated like cash and no longer the responsibility of the money transmitter. Basically it would be like a smartphone app with local currencies loaded. This seems like it would be fully compliant with how current ATMs work with full accountability.

[DubFX]

It's actually already avaible in few cities.

[cbeast]

I'm probably not clear enough.  I mean to say that you would need to restrict the ATMs further so you cannot add funds to any other wallet than has been issued by the ATM owners. Robocoins and Lamassu machines allow you to send to any address. This should be restricted so that such funds can only be transferred outside the ATM system. For instance,  you would not be able to send to your smartphone but you could be issued a paper wallet that you could sweep yourself after the funds have adequate confirmations.

[DeathAndTaxes]

What distinction do you think that makes (other than likely the worst marketable ATM in the history of mankind)?

FinCEN says the act of exchanging BTC for USD or the reverse is what makes one a MSB.  Your proposed restricitons would only make the ATM very unpopular.   

BTW "traditional ATMs" comply with money transmitter laws.   You can't get cash out of an ATM in the US without having given someone somewhere all your personal info (name, address, ssn, dob, photo id, etc).  The ATM operator may not have that information but they are working with your card issuer who does.  If the card issuer doesn't follow the rules the ATM network won't accept their cards.

[cbeast]

What distinction do you think that makes (other than likely the worst marketable ATM in the history of mankind)?

FinCEN says the act of exchanging BTC for USD or the reverse is what makes one a MSB.  Your proposed restricitons would only make the ATM very unpopular.   

BTW "traditional ATMs" comply with money transmitter laws.   You can't get cash out of an ATM in the US without having given someone somewhere all your personal info (name, address, ssn, dob, photo id, etc).  The ATM operator may not have that information but they are working with your card issuer who does.  If the card issuer doesn't follow the rules the ATM network won't accept their cards.

Really it would be more like a Bitcoin savings account. It would be a terrible ATM but we will never likely see any real bitcoin commerce in america with the witch hunt mentality. At least it would give some bitcoin exposure to people on the street.

[DeathAndTaxes]

What distinction do you think that makes (other than likely the worst marketable ATM in the history of mankind)?

FinCEN says the act of exchanging BTC for USD or the reverse is what makes one a MSB.  Your proposed restricitons would only make the ATM very unpopular.   

BTW "traditional ATMs" comply with money transmitter laws.   You can't get cash out of an ATM in the US without having given someone somewhere all your personal info (name, address, ssn, dob, photo id, etc).  The ATM operator may not have that information but they are working with your card issuer who does.  If the card issuer doesn't follow the rules the ATM network won't accept their cards.

Really it would be more like a Bitcoin savings account. It would be a terrible ATM but we will never likely see any real bitcoin commerce in america with the witch hunt mentality. At least it would give some bitcoin exposure to people on the street.

IF the ATM accepted dollars and converted them to BTC then FinCEN (in their awkward let cram this square peg into the round hole which is the "closest" fit mentality) says its operator is a money transmitter.

So if there are no full service Bitcoin ATMs in the US there will be no "savings account" Bitcoin ATMs in the US either and if you could deploy Bitcoin savings account ATMs it would make a lot more business sense to just deploy much more capable and popular full service ones.

[cbeast]

What distinction do you think that makes (other than likely the worst marketable ATM in the history of mankind)?

FinCEN says the act of exchanging BTC for USD or the reverse is what makes one a MSB.  Your proposed restricitons would only make the ATM very unpopular.   

BTW "traditional ATMs" comply with money transmitter laws.   You can't get cash out of an ATM in the US without having given someone somewhere all your personal info (name, address, ssn, dob, photo id, etc).  The ATM operator may not have that information but they are working with your card issuer who does.  If the card issuer doesn't follow the rules the ATM network won't accept their cards.

Really it would be more like a Bitcoin savings account. It would be a terrible ATM but we will never likely see any real bitcoin commerce in america with the witch hunt mentality. At least it would give some bitcoin exposure to people on the street.

IF the ATM accepted dollars and converted them to BTC then FinCEN (in their awkward let cram this square peg into the round hole which is the "closest" fit mentality) says its operator is a money transmitter.

So if there are no full service Bitcoin ATMs in the US there will be no "savings account" Bitcoin ATMs in the US either and if you could deploy Bitcoin savings account ATMs it would make a lot more business sense to just deploy much more capable and popular full service ones.

What if the dollars were escrowed into a multisig transaction and never able to be withdrawn as bitcoin? I understand the square peg argument and that is why america (uncapped intentional) is toxic to small business and innovation. It would be cool to allow people to invest in bitcoins even if they never saw them but only gained from their growth.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If I am understanding your last post correctly they would only add or remove dollars and the dollar balance would be based on the BTC exchange rate.  So if the exchange rate today is $1,000, they deposit $1,000 and have a 1 BTC balance.  Later it rises to $2,000 per BTC so they could withdraw up to $2,000 USD?

It is an interesting idea although my reading of FinCEN overly broad and vague "guidance" on virtual currencies is that would still be considered a MSB.  A startup looking to do that should obtain qualified legal advice though as it could also run afoul of various banking and securities statutes as well.  Ironically it might actually be more regulated than a "normal" Bitcoin ATM.

[cbeast]

I think by creating a Bitcoin savings account only, people can use an ATM to invest in Bitcoins without being able to spend them.


1. Customer uses a smartphone to setup an account and password based on cryptography with a special app that also sends a copy of account information to email and 2FA verification.

2. Customer puts local currency into ATM

3. Customer uses app to set up a multisig transaction (optional) with a nLockTime set for 1 year like a Certificate of Deposit.

4. Customer receives an encrypted signature key electronically and a hardcopy as a receipt.

5. Customer may withdraw whatever that Bitcoin amount is worth minus a small fee by inserting the hardcopy (or a oopy) or use the app.

Note: The customer may wish for the price of Bitcoin to be higher than when secured.


Obviously the ATM company would not even be in the Bitcoin business except by collecting fees and reinvesting like a bank.

edit:
I think the option of an nLockTime that sends the Bitcoins to the account holder would help ensure that if the ATM business folds, the transactions are not lost. The accounts cannot be transmitted any farther that the ATM business allows. They would probably also require ID to set up an account for AML conformity.

[SLIPSTER14]

I think by creating a Bitcoin savings account only, people can use an ATM to invest in Bitcoins without being able to spend them.


1. Customer uses a smartphone to setup an account and password based on cryptography with a special app that also sends a copy of account information to email and 2FA verification.

2. Customer puts local currency into ATM

3. Customer uses app to set up a multisig transaction (optional) with a nLockTime set for 1 year like a Certificate of Deposit.

4. Customer receives an encrypted signature key electronically and a hardcopy as a receipt.

5. Customer may withdraw whatever that Bitcoin amount is worth minus a small fee by inserting the hardcopy (or a oopy) or use the app.

Note: The customer may wish for the price of Bitcoin to be higher than when secured.


Obviously the ATM company would not even be in the Bitcoin business except by collecting fees and reinvesting like a bank.

edit:
I think the option of an nLockTime that sends the Bitcoins to the account holder would help ensure that if the ATM business folds, the transactions are not lost. The accounts cannot be transmitted any farther that the ATM business allows. They would probably also require ID to set up an account for AML conformity.

i think i know what you intend. good idea

[ChuckBuck]

There's a 2 way Bitcoin ATM that just launched in South Korea.  It may not have all of the OP's requirements, but it deals in both fiat and Bitcoin:

http://www.coindesk.com/south-korea-launches-first-bitcoin-atm/

Definitely looks like and operates like a standard ATM.  Doesn't quite have the "locked" to one owner part down, but looks like a step in the right direction:

[tocoolforschool]

they look good. very good.
i am quite impressed

[pdux]

I think the Barcelona ATM makes what you are just asking:

There are some videos in their website: http://www.btcpoint.org

And it can buy and sell BTC, other currencies and I think is 3 times cheaper than Robocoin, but not sure.

[franky1]

i think the OP is talking about having a operator that requests your life history and issues you a bitcoin card, that has a private key on it. that cards public key is registered to the customers life history. then the customer can use that card to just slide into the machine and cash out. without having to repeatedly input their life history.

i can see this happening by the operator having a card with 98% of the private key on the chip. the other 2% is what the customer keeps in their head as their pin number. and the operator only saves the public key and pin on their database.

so when a customer puts in the card, it reads the 98% from the chip, gets the 2% from the user typing it in. and makes a fully working private key. the machine then (independent of operators server) creates the raw transaction to withdraw x bitcoin and sends the signed transaction to the network. along with an API to the operators server that says public key sent Xbtc for $Y in return.
the operator checks the public balance and checks the user has not gone over any AML fiat limits, then sends back a command to release the fiat.

the machine dispenses the $$ and the operator logs that public key user swapped x for y, to keep it logs correct for regulatory purposes.

well thats my brain fart anyways

[E.exchanger]

I think is already their i saw it on the forum a guy introducing btc atm  but those were placed in china.I've also heard that there is one in Canada too but never get to know where exactly it is !!

[CurbsideProphet]

It seems like one of the features of Bitcoin would be to rid yourself of the need for something like an ATM.  I don't know that I can see any benefits of tethering a new technology to one that is more or less archaic. 

[Sanningcreet25]

That Chinese ATM looks amazing. im guessing its better than the Robocoin ATM.

[augustocroppo]

Bitcoin ATM is one of the most stupid idea I even came to know. Why are you concerned with something almost useless?

[lnternet]

Bitcoin ATM is one of the most stupid idea I even came to know. Why are you concerned with something almost useless?

I have met many people buying person to person through localbitcoins. There is a big demand for exchanging cash for coins. The vast majority of people don't know how to install a download or set up an encrypted, backed up wallet. But they know what cash is, and want bitcoin for it. This market is very big.

[franky1]

It seems like one of the features of Bitcoin would be to rid yourself of the need for something like an ATM.  I don't know that I can see any benefits of tethering a new technology to one that is more or less archaic.  

some people do not have/want bank accounts
some people do not want to search listings on a localbitcoin website and arrange a meet up to get cash in hand
some people want to just walk upto a box in their neighbourhood unplanned and swap their bitcoin for banknotes any time they please, to then spend in a pub/bar.

until bitcoin is mainstream and used in all major categories of merchants in all towns. some people will still need to use bank notes