Stop blaming MtGox

[CWestermark]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

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[Barek]

The bottom line is the quality of Bitcoin.

I think everyone agrees transaction malleability is a bad thing. Why not just fix it?

[Entropy-uc]

MtGox incompetently managed their accounts and their method of posting transactions to the network.  People discovered their failures and exploited it to rob MtGox.  That is 100% MtGox's fault.

MtGox blames Bitcoin for their failures in attempt to crash the price which would allow them to recover their losses.  This is the 3rd time they have triggered such a crash by the way.

The crash attempt fails because no one with sense trades with them anymore.  Developers step in and point out that the failure is a result of MtGox being incompetent.

Suddenly a bot appears that exploits the defect to create duplicate transactions.  These duplicates have no effect on who gets paid in transactions, or gives any advantage to hackers.  It just aggravates and confuses people until one of the duplicate transactions drops off the network as intended by the protocol.  The bot doing this is extremely well connected in the bitcoin network suggesting it must be operating on nodes that have been active for years.

Who benefits?  Only MtGox.  They have failed, are probably insolvent, and are now flinging mud at bitcoin hoping to damage the source of all their revenue.  It is EXTREMELY LIKELY that they are the source of the malicious transactions spamming the network right now.

I don't blame MtGox.  I blame any fool who trades with them.

[blueberry]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

Are you are a Mt. Gox sockpuppet? All your posts were made only today.

Name:    CWestermark
Posts:    5
Activity:    5
Position:    Newbie
Date Registered:    November 23, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
Last Active:    Today at 04:15:16 PM

[CWestermark]

MtGox incompetently managed their accounts and their method of posting transactions to the network.  People discovered their failures and exploited it to rob MtGox.  That is 100% MtGox's fault.

MtGox blames Bitcoin for their failures in attempt to crash the price which would allow them to recover their losses.  This is the 3rd time they have triggered such a crash by the way.

The crash attempt fails because no one with sense trades with them anymore.  Developers step in and point out that the failure is a result of MtGox being incompetent.

Suddenly a bot appears that exploits the defect to create duplicate transactions.  These duplicates have no effect on who gets paid in transactions, or gives any advantage to hackers.  It just aggravates and confuses people until one of the duplicate transactions drops off the network as intended by the protocol.  The bot doing this is extremely well connected in the bitcoin network suggesting it must be operating on nodes that have been active for years.

Who benefits?  Only MtGox.  They have failed, are probably insolvent, and are now flinging mud at bitcoin hoping to damage the source of all their revenue.  It is EXTREMELY LIKELY that they are the source of the malicious transactions spamming the network right now.

I don't blame MtGox.  I blame any fool who trades with them.

I agree on that MtGox customer service is bad and that they can handle communication better. But hey, who should we trade FIAT -> BTC with now when also Bitstamp has BTC withdrawal problems? We all have to be a "fool" and sometimes trade our BTC -> Fiat at an exchange. And right now they are all crappy in my point of view. Bitstamp / BTC-E, their customer support is also not to responsive, without phone numbers etc. I am no coder, so can not tell if their implementation of teh BTC protocoll is better.

 

[DubFX]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

You are a Mt. Gox sockpuppet. All your posts were made only today.

Name:    CWestermark
Posts:    5
Activity:    5
Position:    Newbie
Date Registered:    November 23, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
Last Active:    Today at 04:15:16 PM

Is really mt gox that stupid?

[blueberry]

Just read this newbies' posts. 4 out of all 5 posts this user ever made bash the other exchanges and defend MtGox. This newbie even blames the Bitcoin Foundation and Bitcoin.

I tried to deposit 3btc to my bitstamp account and it still has not been credited. The transaction is on the blockchain with 8 confirmations. Probably similar issue as with MtGox. Might not be only a MtGox issue in the air.

And they call BTC a smooth currency? Still big steps to take before that is 100% true

Probably GOX creating an error with Bitstamp so that they don`t have to go out of business.

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

I agree on that MtGox customer service is bad and that they can handle communication better. But hey, who should we trade FIAT -> BTC with now when also Bitstamp has BTC withdrawal problems? We all have to be a "fool" and sometimes trade our BTC -> Fiat at an exchange. And right now they are all crappy in my point of view. Bitstamp / BTC-E, their customer support is also not to responsive, without phone numbers etc. I am no coder, so can not tell if their implementation of teh BTC protocoll is better.

[Mrrr]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

You are a Mt. Gox sockpuppet. All your posts were made only today.

Name:    CWestermark
Posts:    5
Activity:    5
Position:    Newbie
Date Registered:    November 23, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
Last Active:    Today at 04:15:16 PM

He is. C is a reference to the conquest of Seville by the Castillians on Nov 23 1248. West is opposite of East, now let the Karpeles Manuscipt Library Museum be conventiently located on East 1st street, Duluth, Minnesota! Mark is self explanatory. I'm still at large as to where the Illuminati fit into this but I'll keep you up to date!

[hilariousandco]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

It wasn't the issue with Bitcoin, but how they handled the situation by spreading FUD and passing the blame for their shitty service.

[EvilPanda]

Haha anybody noticed the name? CWestermark. Karpeles, is that you? Come out and face the crowd 

[HeliKopterBen]

Other exchanges are reporting withdrawal delays now.  Maybe gox was right.

[Zarathustra]

Other exchanges are reporting withdrawal delays now.  Maybe gox was right.

News
Bitstamp Support
11th Feb., 2014
Bitcoin withdrawal processing suspended
Dear Bitstamp users Bitstamp’s exchange software is extremely cautious concerning Bitcoin transactions. Currently it has suspended processing Bitcoin withdrawals due to inconsistent results reported by our bitcoind wallet, caused by a denial-of-service attack using transaction malleability to temporarily disrupt balance checking. As such, Bitcoin withdrawal processing will be suspended temporarily until a software fix is issued. No funds have been lost and no funds are at risk. This is a denial-of-service attack made possible by some misunderstandings in Bitcoin wallet implementations. These misunderstandings have simple solutions that are being implemented as we speak, and we're confident everything will be back to normal shortly. Withdrawals which failed on the 10th and 11th of February will be canceled and the amounts added back to the customer account balances. We will communicate any further developments regarding this issue. Thank you for your understanding! Best regards Bitstamp team

https://www.bitstamp.net/news/

[superduh]

looks like there was more truth in the mtgox press release that the core devs dared to admit. apparently now they are coordinating a "solution" asap
blame gox for everything you want but a problem is a problem

[CWestermark]

Just read this newbies' posts. 4 out of all 5 posts this user ever made bash the other exchanges and defend MtGox. This newbie even blames the Bitcoin Foundation and Bitcoin.

I tried to deposit 3btc to my bitstamp account and it still has not been credited. The transaction is on the blockchain with 8 confirmations. Probably similar issue as with MtGox. Might not be only a MtGox issue in the air.

And they call BTC a smooth currency? Still big steps to take before that is 100% true

Probably GOX creating an error with Bitstamp so that they don`t have to go out of business.

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

I agree on that MtGox customer service is bad and that they can handle communication better. But hey, who should we trade FIAT -> BTC with now when also Bitstamp has BTC withdrawal problems? We all have to be a "fool" and sometimes trade our BTC -> Fiat at an exchange. And right now they are all crappy in my point of view. Bitstamp / BTC-E, their customer support is also not to responsive, without phone numbers etc. I am no coder, so can not tell if their implementation of teh BTC protocoll is better.

I might be a n00b here, but now even your god Andreas Antonopoulos blames a weakness in the protocol
http://www.coindesk.com/massive-concerted-attack-launched-bitcoin-exchanges/

[blueberry]

I might be a n00b here, but now even your god Andreas Antonopoulos blames a weakness in the protocol
http://www.coindesk.com/massive-concerted-attack-launched-bitcoin-exchanges/

Technical issue or not, the market is still skeptical that MtGox will honor all BTC withdrawals after this issue is fixed:

At the time of this post:

Gox 577
Stamp 642
Bitfinex 638
Btc-e 635

Note: Gox should be 100 above the rest due to difficulties in withdrawing fiat. So it is currently 165 below where it should be if BTC withdrawals were being honored.

[CWestermark]

Technical issue or not, the market is still skeptical that MtGox will honor all BTC withdrawals after this issue is fixed:

I agree with you that MtGox is not a good exchange. No customer service, no phone number and they should hire a person that handles their communication with media and clients. But there are none that does it much better. Bitstamp and BTC-E is the same crap, and this, the exchanges are sadly one of the weakest spots of Bitcoin right now.

Another issue is that Bitcoin still is on a beta release, were bugs are expected. The more value Bitcoin gets the harder it is to maintain and change these bugs. Hence I think we will get some Altcoin that surpasses BTC in 2-5 years.

 

[blueberry]

Bitstamp and BTC-E is the same crap, and this, the exchanges are sadly one of the weakest spots of Bitcoin right now.

Other than MtGox, how are the exchanges weak spots right now? The exchanges have just taken precautionary measures and stopped bitcoin withdrawals are currently fixing their software so the minor bug becomes a non issue. No funds have been lost. Things should be back to normal within a few days at most, I suspect.

Another issue is that Bitcoin still is on a beta release, were bugs are expected. The more value Bitcoin gets the harder it is to maintain and change these bugs.

The more valuable Bitcoin gets the more incentive and money available to spend fixing bugs.


If the other exchanges are back to normal operation within a few days and MtGox is still having BTC withdrawal issues after 2 weeks, then you must agree that MtGox's issues are more than just technical. There is a chance they may be using this bug as a convenient excuse to cover up some larger issue. It is possible they may even be the ones behind the attacks. As already stated, the markets remain skeptical.

Right now however, I am giving MtGox the benefit of the doubt.



Regardless of the above, MtGox are to blame for the havoc in the markets they caused yesterday with the way they handled the announcement. I have written about this in greater detail:

I think the problem people have with Gox is the way they handled the announcement and also the havoc it caused in the Bitcoin markets afterwards which could have been avoided. Their long-winded announcement went into a lot of technical detail about the transaction malleability flaw. Most traders are non-technical users of Bitcoin and would assume after reading the announcement that Bitcoin was broken. Sure enough, the announcement caused the flash crashes only minutes after release at Btc-e and Bitfinex resulting in millions of dollar losses from panic and margin calls.

This resulting panic in the markets could have been easily avoided had the announcement been reworded differently in a less dramatic fashion. You only need to read the first 2 paragraphs and immediately you suspect some serious flaw in Bitcoin. Less emphasis should have been made on all the details of the flaw, we are not to blame, more emphasis on that Bitcoin is not broken, this issue is not major, everyones funds are safe, we apologize to our customers for long delays etc... The devs were right to say that Bitcoin is not broken in order to prevent FUD from spreading and reaching the mainstream media with damaging articles where average joes would use this as another reason to avoid Bitcoin. Thanks to the devs a lot of the articles out there emphasize that this is a minor flaw and solutions can be easily implemented.

Mark Karpeles may understand technical issues well, but when it comes understanding investor and traders psychology and the huge impact these announcements will have on the Bitcoin markets, he either doesn't seem to have a clue or simply doesn't care (negligence).

[ravetrader]

Now when BTC-E and Bitstamp has similar problems, the bug that MtGox highlighted seems to have credit. Might Gox who cause similar issue with at their competitors exchanges

So now the ball is back at the bitcoin faundation. Bitcoin still in beta, might sadly not be so smooth yet.

 

It wasn't the issue with Bitcoin, but how they handled the situation by spreading FUD and passing the blame for their shitty service.

that is exactly the picture i was expecting here, as i clicked on that topic!

[casascius]

Even in spite of these issues, any of the exchanges should be able to pay out withdrawals with a short delay of well under 24 hours, just by aggregating the backlog into one single batch transaction and sending it out using the regular bitcoind software.

If I were operating an honest exchange and had a "spreadsheet" of bitcoin payments I needed to pay out, I would pay them all out in one giant "sendmany" transaction.  Even if the transaction got mutated prior to confirmation, there is a 100% chance the transaction would go through.  I'd repeat the same process daily or several times a day, and announce that only "instant" withdrawals are no longer available, they just have to be done in a batch, by hand, hopefully the same day.

I am guessing that even if the other exchanges must temporarily halt withdrawals, the honest ones will quickly find a way to get withdrawals pushed out with a 0-24 hour delay!

I am pretty critical of MtGox and stopped using them more than a year ago because I just don't trust them.

[superduh]

Even in spite of these issues, any of the exchanges should be able to pay out withdrawals with a short delay of well under 24 hours, just by aggregating the backlog into one single batch transaction and sending it out using the regular bitcoind software.

If I were operating an honest exchange and had a "spreadsheet" of bitcoin payments I needed to pay out, I would pay them all out in one giant "sendmany" transaction.  Even if the transaction got mutated prior to confirmation, there is a 100% chance the transaction would go through.  I'd repeat the same process daily or several times a day, and announce that only "instant" withdrawals are no longer available, they just have to be done in a batch, by hand, hopefully the same day.

I am guessing that even if the other exchanges must temporarily halt withdrawals, the honest ones will quickly find a way to get withdrawals pushed out with a 0-24 hour delay!

I am pretty critical of MtGox and stopped using them more than a year ago because I just don't trust them.

everyone always giving gox shit for putting a "bandaid" on everything and not fixing their problems. if they tried to appease people without fixing their internal issues or this mutation problem than then they'd get shit if something goes wrong with it later - regardless. i think them having a permenant solution or an internal workaround that solves this ISSUE once and for all is more important then just sending transactions out, dealing with all the "complaints" fake or real, and having to manually reconcile all the btc address and internal records. a permanent solution is the ONLY real solution. putting a short term solution to this issue is far worse than halting withdrawls and figuring everything out correctly.

pushing transactions out makes a lot more sense with "personal" wallets, not for exchanges that use shared wallets and have complicated internal networks.