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Author Topic: vulnerability of the forum. slander in plagiarism  (Read 1226 times)
LiluSG
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July 08, 2018, 12:07:44 AM
 #21

After stalking at inbizin's profile and merit history I found out that xandry (staff in Russian board) almost gave 103 Merits to inbizin' s posts (almost all of posts that received merits has been deleted) in the last 120 days. I don't know if this is a fair distribution of Merits but I smell something fishy around here.  Roll Eyes

Sorry for interrupting OP.  

Moderator in our locale, initially distributed Merit for his help in moderating sections and topics. Those, if you saw that the topic is made, for example, not in that section, or it is a duplicate of those already existing,
then you can write a message in the subject, give a link to the rule and give recommendations. Then make a report. Thereafter, any topic removed, or transferred. In the post-report put 1 merit, if it was useful to the moderator and subsequently removed. Therefore, such a history of merits

There are several problems in this direction. We have one of the biggest locales on the forum, millions of messages. Only 2 active moderators for this whole mass. Also very meager with merit-sorse, in our locale of merit is simply not, in comparison with the English locale. The moderator decided to give him such options. By the way, he threw him in the usual posts that he saw and they were interesting to him. Now this possibility is not present, but our sections have considerably changed. So this definitely was good, although not in the standard way. But in this there is nothing direct such secret  Roll Eyes

By comparison, in the English locale give 10 merits in one post is considered normal. In our locale, at once the conversation about dual accounts, buying, and so on. Again, all this fuss is unhealthy due to the fact that Merita little. I hope this at least somehow clarifies the logic of the action and problems of our locale Smiley
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xtraelv
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July 08, 2018, 04:49:01 AM
Merited by chimk (1)
 #22

[
There are several problems in this direction. We have one of the biggest locales on the forum, millions of messages. Only 2 active moderators for this whole mass. Also very meager with merit-sorse, in our locale of merit is simply not, in comparison with the English locale. The moderator decided to give him such options. By the way, he threw him in the usual posts that he saw and they were interesting to him. Now this possibility is not present, but our sections have considerably changed. So this definitely was good, although not in the standard way. But in this there is nothing direct such secret  Roll Eyes

By comparison, in the English locale give 10 merits in one post is considered normal. In our locale, at once the conversation about dual accounts, buying, and so on. Again, all this fuss is unhealthy due to the fact that Merita little. I hope this at least somehow clarifies the logic of the action and problems of our locale Smiley

The statistics do not support your claims.
Russian section gets plenty of merit per user.
Spam has been tidied up in that section and some other local boards should take notes. (Some local boards are great)
The only concern I have is that some of the reporting on there is of an industrial scale and this thread shows how that can be abused by malicious reporting of targeted users. It is not the moderators fault but they should keep an eye on it so it doesn't develop into a problem.
When enforcing the rules the goals should always be kept in mind.





Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3093768

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LiluSG
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July 08, 2018, 10:12:52 AM
 #23



If I correctly understood this statistics, then in the local sections there is only one third of the total merit. The rest 2/3 can be said in the English-language part of the forum. Yes, in local charts we most of all have it. But 10% of all forum users are Russian-speaking. This is a huge mass of messages that they write and actually the people themselves who are trying to get a merit.

And everything looks rather relative. Approximately from the category of how to measure the population density per square km. We have it large in relation to the territory (merit) which we have. I saw the statistics, where we calculated this coefficient how many merit per each mouth is in each of the sections, I'll try to find. Again, on such a mass of people, we have only a few Merit-sorse, swill 3-4, it's not even 10

Yes, I can sub-objectively say that in the English part of the forum to get easier Merit. In the Russian for 10 pieces you need to roll a guide on several sheets, and here for only interesting thoughts in a couple of lines can give so much Smiley

About the moderator is correctly noticed, they are not small, about abuse understand. The system is not perfect, but it was at least some attempts
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July 08, 2018, 11:14:52 AM
Last edit: July 08, 2018, 11:34:34 AM by taikuri13
Merited by xtraelv (1)
 #24


The statistics do not support your claims.

This is the old statistics.

Now:

Local


Rus


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3312945.0
https://albertoit.github.io/Visualization/index.html

I saw the statistics, where we calculated this coefficient how many merit per each mouth is in each of the sections, I'll try to find. Again, on such a mass of people, we have only a few Merit-sorse, swill 3-4, it's not even 10

These are my calculations (in Russian). (Approximate)

Link1

Link 2

Link 3


My calculations are based on the fact that in the Russian local thread: 11.9% (22101 merit)
In all the locales, 31.4% (58638 merit)

Hence, in the English thread, 100-31.4 = 68.6%

Compare with the Russian (merit, %)

68.6 / 11.9 = 5.764 (576.4%)

Attendance of the English thread is greater than the Russian thread by 576.4%?

It's very hard for me to believe this

ps: Compare the number of merit-source in the English thread and in Russian

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July 08, 2018, 02:13:57 PM
 #25


This is the old statistics.

Now:


Thanks for the work and statistics)

All my message is just that, that there is a problem with the moderation of such a volume of topics and posts, so the local community did it, and the fact that we still have less merit than we would like, including from the point of view of its generation  Roll Eyes
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July 08, 2018, 04:10:48 PM
 #26

<…> I saw the statistics, where we calculated this coefficient how many merit per each mouth is in each of the sections, I'll try to find. <…>
Perhaps it was this post, although it is broken down by weeks and not months, and is now a couple of months old: Forum Metrics - Section/subsection sMerit breakdown in detail (specifically section 5.5 Local).
A weekly updated breakdown can easily be seen on the Merit Dashboard. The "section subsection" tab (sixth tab) gives you the information broken down by months on the left, and aggregate on the right graphic.
Quote
<…>But 10% of all forum users are Russian-speaking. This is a huge mass of messages that they write and actually the people themselves who are trying to get a merit. <…>
The distribution of sMerit is not specifically language or board related, with no quotas set on those terms. Regardless, the Forums I figure tries to balance things around a bit adding merit sources based on deeper information which we cannot get hold of. One would say that the amount of sMerit awarded in one local board is low/adequate/high depending on many features, not just language.

For example, the basic objective measures would be the amount of sMerit awarded in relation to the number of posts posted in the section for a given period of time (the former data we have, but alas not the latter).
Of course, we would also have to weigh-in the subjective feature of quality/interest of the posts themselves vs sMerit received. This is subjective, and the lack of sMerit in relation to this complex variable (or set of variables I’d say) is only detectable currently on a visual perception level, where current moderators and I’d say merit sources could have a big saying to report if they detect that there is effectively a large deficiency in this relation (quality/interest vs sMerit awarded).

Looking at the only variable that we really have of the above, the amount of sMerit awarded on the Russian board (with no possible contrast, at least for the commons, to number of posts and quality/interest) is 11,80% in total, and 10,79% if we just focus on the month of June 2018. No other section/subsection has more sMerit awarded during June, and if the 10% of forum users being Russian-speaking that you state were to be correct, then the proportion itself seems rather aligned (without baring all the other factors that would need to be considered).

All this does not diminish the fact that overall circulating sMerit seems to be small, and that sMerit awarded per Tx, or even per post, withers the hopes of many that do get awarded sMerit other that at a drop by drop pace (see Analysis- sMerits per transaction and sMerit transactions per post-Are they low? ). 

Other local are barely on the map at all. While they bear a much lower population and posting degree, the lack of possibilities to get sMerit there are not even likely to give them a chance to thrive and be rewarded unless they are fluent in English and migrate to the English boards.

P.D. You're free to take the campaign's signature off if you wish. The campaign has been over for a few days ...

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July 08, 2018, 04:58:06 PM
 #27


Thanks for the clarification and analysis. Of course, I exaggerated and understand that analysis, interaction and circulation are more complex than I described. Moreover, I also partly relied on subjective sensations and conveyed the general mood in the section. I do not have enough data, for the reason that reading English is harder for me and I can not so quickly navigate the flow of information, but I'll look at all the links and figure it out in more detail. Thx Smiley

P.S. If I understand correctly the postscript and you are about my signature? Yes, I know that the project is over, I'm very close with the project team and so far there has been no signal to remove the signature. By the middle of July everything will be calculated and I can remove it)

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July 08, 2018, 05:25:34 PM
 #28


By comparison, in the English locale give 10 merits in one post is considered normal. In our locale, at once the conversation about dual accounts, buying, and so on. Again, all this fuss is unhealthy due to the fact that Merita little. I hope this at least somehow clarifies the logic of the action and problems of our locale Smiley

I think you will find that in the English section the merit from genuine sources is not an average of 10 at a time. It might be more between older accounts but it is definitely not my experience from the regular sources.

Also there should always be an incentive to lure the English speaking users that have plenty to offer into the English language section where more people can read it.  Grin

Interaction with people from other countries is one of the things I like about this forum.

Edit:

One thing that I noticed but not investigated is that on some of the Russian users that I clicked on at random they had received merit but hadn't spent their sMerits. Not spending sMerits can hinder the flow of merits. Maybe one of the statistics gurus on here can look into it more.

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July 08, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
 #29

One thing that I noticed but not investigated is that on some of the Russian users that I clicked on at random they had received merit but hadn't spent their sMerits. Not spending sMerits can hinder the flow of merits. Maybe one of the statistics gurus on here can look into it more.
Very interesting question you’ve placed there. Now we can’t really resolve Gollum’s "what have you got in your pocketses" question, but we can approach xtralev’s question with the current data.

Gollum’s question requires us to know what the initial airdrop for each person was, and since that has not been published yet, and due to the fact that it depends on the activity of each user in the year (roughly) prior to Merit Kickoff, we have to give this question a pass. The only approximation that can be done on this is to calculate the “has at least got” value for each forum member, much like vod dues on his BPIP. The indicator nevertheless necessarily leaves out the 600K global total airdrop, which is a big figure to discard.

Xtralev's question on the other hand, can be answered by analysing the users that have received sMerit and not sent any at all. Now these users may or not be themselves beneficiaries from the initial sMerit airdrop, but we can obviate this fact here since they still have not sent any sMerit.
 
In total, 17.335 users have received sMerit up to last Friday morning. Out of those, 8.428 users have not sent any sMerit to anyone. That is 48,61%! Amazing right?
They add up to 39.175 sMerits, which if halved, would be 19.587 smerits that are potentially ready to be set into motion (this is a subset of all though; remember the focus here are users that have receives sMerit and not any sMerit).

In this occasion though, we do have to pay attention to the extreme cases, since they are significant:

-   There are 4.229 users that have received only 1 sMerit. These cannot send sMerit (unless they also have airdropped sMerit, which we do not know), so they should not really play a role here to be on the safe side.

-   Let’s face it, Satoshi’s 1.037 sMerits are not going to be sent.

So if we deduct the above cases to the original astounding numbers, these get reduced to:
4.199 users have received at least 2 sMerits, and have not awarded any. That is 24,22% of the total amount of users that have received sMerit in total, with an equivalent of 34.946 sMerits that could originate 17.473 sMerits. It is also 32,2% of the user base that have received sMerits, if we deduct the 4.199 users that recived sMerit but cannot send sMerit, from the 17.335 users.

Of all the above, the important figure is perhaps the 32,2% of users that, having received sMerit in a magnitude greater or equal to 2 (or 1 sMerit, but received airdropped sMerit and therefore managed to send sMerit themselves), have not sent any sMerit at all. Their amount of awardable sMerit is perhaps not that large though in the big picture.

There is a slight oversimplification though, since each user will have been in disposition to send sMerit at a different time, depending on when he/she received his/her sMerits, but it’s good enough for a starting point.
It is also important that the percentage of people does not represent the percentage of sMerit that in their hands. That is important to emphasize. The 32,2% is quantity of people, not of sMerit.

If I can grab sometime during the week, I’ll take a better look and see if I can derive an OP with a breakdown of the data, providing I find something additional that is meaningful to some extent. This could also be interesting to Add to the Dashboard.

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July 08, 2018, 09:22:42 PM
 #30

One thing that I noticed but not investigated is that on some of the Russian users that I clicked on at random they had received merit but hadn't spent their sMerits. Not spending sMerits can hinder the flow of merits. Maybe one of the statistics gurus on here can look into it more.

Yes, this problem was also in our discussions, on the analysis of some accounts and what they keep is measured without giving it away. The reasons for their logic failed to solve. One of the opinions that sounded, the fear of painting (trust)

But the layout of the DdmrDdmr more statistically disassembled and the whole situation is not as catastrophic as it seems. Although it does not solve the problem, more than 1\4 falls into so-called wells or burned as a forage account Satoshi

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July 09, 2018, 08:10:29 AM
 #31


Gollum’s question requires us to know what the initial airdrop for each person was, and since that has not been published yet, and due to the fact that it depends on the activity of each user in the year (roughly) prior to Merit Kickoff, we have to give this question a pass. The only approximation that can be done on this is to calculate the “has at least got” value for each forum member, much like vod dues on his BPIP. The indicator nevertheless necessarily leaves out the 600K global total airdrop, which is a big figure to discard.

This is my guess at the airdropped smerit.

Member: 1
Full Member: 10
Sr. Member: 25
Hero Member: 50
Legendary: 100

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July 09, 2018, 04:25:41 PM
Merited by xtraelv (1)
 #32

<...>
This is my guess at the airdropped smerit.
Member: 1
Full Member: 10
Sr. Member: 25
Hero Member: 50
Legendary: 100
Theymos posted a while ago the formula he used for the initial airdrop:

<…>
The exact formula was:
Code:
yearActivity = activity in the last ~year, max 378
freeMerit = the merit (not sMerit) you started with
modifier =
  0.1 if member
  0.2 if full member
  0.25 if sr member
  0.35 if hero
  0.4 if legendary
return (yearActivity/378) * modifier * freeMerit

So the most you could get is if you were a Legendary who maxed out your activity points in the last year, in which case you would get 1 * 0.4 * 1000 = 400 sMerit.

Note that I later made an adjustment giving 500 extra merit to some hero members, but no extra sMerit was given here.

I'll probably publish a dump of the initial sMerit at some point.

So really, the exact airdrop amount is not determinable by us since it depends on the activity for each person during the last year aprox. prior to the Merit System kickoff. We know what the potential max. was per rank, but no the individual amount…

There are three potential ways of knowing this information, none of which we have:
a.   A file release with the initial sMerit air dropped (preferred).
b.   Adding this info to user profiles (won’t happen).
c.   Having a snapshot of each user profile both at the time of Merit System kick-off, and a year prior to that (to see the difference in activity, although according to theymos’s post the year considers up to 378 days, and I’m not sure that is the exact rule). This would not account nevertheless for the hero member's exceptions.

We’ll have to set aside gollum’s "what have you got in your pocketses" question for now and perhaps forever and for the best, in order to avoid a 1-to-1 merit begging prone activity that would spin right off from this knowledge if made public.

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