[NXT] Decentralized Asset Exchange Discussion Thread

[Fry]

15004211867702614232

Please!

[1715134476]

1715134476

[Jerical13]

Could I get some TestNXT for the asset exchange?

Thanks

2630721545000745539

[Jerical13]

The title pretty much sums it up. This thread is for discussing any aspect of or related to the NXT decentralized asset exchange.

TestNXT instructions:
1. See CfB's post here.
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5084677#msg5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!

Some links:
http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-asset-exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations

A brief explanation of decentralized exchange:
Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed nxtsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

So, basically this feature allows some one to generate a token on the NXT network that represents a Bitcoin or a Litecoin or essentially any commodity. Attached to these generated tokens is a "promise to pay" which give them value. These tokens can then be exchanged through the network.

Is the exchange that you describe incorporated into the feature? a user can create a token and place it on the market for open bidding? Is that the jest of what you're describing? Are these tokens divisible? Can they be generated in sets? Is the exchange to be part of the client? Sorry to hit you with so many questions:) Is there some place to find this info? I find this to be a fascinating idea.

my understanding is: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. (i think i counted the number of questions right )

idk what would be the place to find this info. this thread i think would be the best place. try playing with the test client, that'll help i suspect.

Hi again. I have been screwing around with this feature for a while to today,(mostly reading and watching vids about the topic) I tried your suggestion about using the test version but I am limited by my knowledge of computers and couldn't get the test client to work. I have found out a lot and while I would like to try out the test exchange, I think I have a decent understanding of the feature, so thanks for the help and info. I do how ever have a few more questions about the client that I wasn't able to find info on.

Once the exchange is operational there will be two clients, one for Forging coins and sending and receiving coins and then another for the exchange, Is this correct or will the exchange client incorporate all of these functions in one client? Are transactions that are done through the exchange processed on the same block chain as the currency? And are there fees associated with exchange transactions and If so how do they work (paid in currency or paid in the exchanged asset or some other way?)

I realize you are busy, so if there is a link you could suggest or a source of info that might help.....at any rate any info you might give would be appreciated and maybe answer someone else's  questions as well. And thanks again.

Transactions in the decentralized exchange are processed on the same blockchain as the currency. Yes there are fees, just like bitcoin you are bidding for inclusion, but probably there will be a hard coded minimum to prevent spam, probably it will be 1nxt or 0.1nxt. fees are payed in nxt.

I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by "bidding for inclusion". Let me sum up what I think you mean and you tell me if I am on the right track.

The fee is applied at the generation of the asset and the total fee is based upon the demand for the generation of the asset. Kind of like the alias feature; If two people want the same alias, high bidder wins. So if you create an asset that is unique then you would only be charge the coded minimum fee. Sound close? if my understanding is correct or close to correct, Then there are no transaction fees(i.e. fees  for trading assets). Is that so?

I have been playing with the feature but haven't really got to use it yet. I tried to create an asset and was denied because I had insufficient funds (no TestNXT). Overall I think it is a pretty awesome idea. I would like to see "Last Trade" pricing added to the main index of assets, and possibly index categories (So someone who is in the market for currencies could index only those types of marketed assets and not have to wade and search though other types of assets on the exchange), but those are just ideas for future upgrades. It will be pretty bad ass as it is once it is up... and it is really exiting to imagine what it will be. Thanks for the info on this topic.

[Anon136]

The title pretty much sums it up. This thread is for discussing any aspect of or related to the NXT decentralized asset exchange.

TestNXT instructions:
1. See CfB's post here.
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5084677#msg5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!

Some links:
http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-asset-exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations

A brief explanation of decentralized exchange:
Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed nxtsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

So, basically this feature allows some one to generate a token on the NXT network that represents a Bitcoin or a Litecoin or essentially any commodity. Attached to these generated tokens is a "promise to pay" which give them value. These tokens can then be exchanged through the network.

Is the exchange that you describe incorporated into the feature? a user can create a token and place it on the market for open bidding? Is that the jest of what you're describing? Are these tokens divisible? Can they be generated in sets? Is the exchange to be part of the client? Sorry to hit you with so many questions:) Is there some place to find this info? I find this to be a fascinating idea.

my understanding is: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. (i think i counted the number of questions right )

idk what would be the place to find this info. this thread i think would be the best place. try playing with the test client, that'll help i suspect.

Hi again. I have been screwing around with this feature for a while to today,(mostly reading and watching vids about the topic) I tried your suggestion about using the test version but I am limited by my knowledge of computers and couldn't get the test client to work. I have found out a lot and while I would like to try out the test exchange, I think I have a decent understanding of the feature, so thanks for the help and info. I do how ever have a few more questions about the client that I wasn't able to find info on.

Once the exchange is operational there will be two clients, one for Forging coins and sending and receiving coins and then another for the exchange, Is this correct or will the exchange client incorporate all of these functions in one client? Are transactions that are done through the exchange processed on the same block chain as the currency? And are there fees associated with exchange transactions and If so how do they work (paid in currency or paid in the exchanged asset or some other way?)

I realize you are busy, so if there is a link you could suggest or a source of info that might help.....at any rate any info you might give would be appreciated and maybe answer someone else's  questions as well. And thanks again.

Transactions in the decentralized exchange are processed on the same blockchain as the currency. Yes there are fees, just like bitcoin you are bidding for inclusion, but probably there will be a hard coded minimum to prevent spam, probably it will be 1nxt or 0.1nxt. fees are payed in nxt.

I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by "bidding for inclusion". Let me sum up what I think you mean and you tell me if I am on the right track.

The fee is applied at the generation of the asset and the total fee is based upon the demand for the generation of the asset. Kind of like the alias feature; If two people want the same alias, high bidder wins. So if you create an asset that is unique then you would only be charge the coded minimum fee. Sound close? if my understanding is correct or close to correct, Then there are no transaction fees(i.e. fees  for trading assets). Is that so?

I have been playing with the feature but haven't really got to use it yet. I tried to create an asset and was denied because I had insufficient funds (no TestNXT). Overall I think it is a pretty awesome idea. I would like to see "Last Trade" pricing added to the main index of assets, and possibly index categories (So someone who is in the market for currencies could index only those types of marketed assets and not have to wade and search though other types of assets on the exchange), but those are just ideas for future upgrades. It will be pretty bad ass as it is once it is up... and it is really exiting to imagine what it will be. Thanks for the info on this topic.

Ok so yea there is a fee for generating an asset, thats separate from what i mean by bidding for inclusion. So when ever you send an asset from one person to another that transfer must be included in a block. that block has limited space and the author of the block gets to decide what transactions make it in a which don't. a rational self interested forger will put in the transactions that pay him the most first and leave out the ones that pay him less if the demand for space exceeds the supply of space. this is what i mean by bidding for inclusion.

yes i agree it is very excited. it could change the world in profoudn ways. you are welcome.

[Jerical13]

The title pretty much sums it up. This thread is for discussing any aspect of or related to the NXT decentralized asset exchange.

TestNXT instructions:
1. See CfB's post here.
2. Create testNXT account here: https://holms.cloudapp.net:6875
3. DO NOT use your main password account; create an account by using a new, unique passphrase.
4. You can download fmiboy's AE-enabled client here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5084677#msg5084677
5. Ask for testNXT in main thread or here; include your testNXT account number.
6. HAVE FUN!

Some links:
http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-asset-exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5054385#msg5054385
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations

A brief explanation of decentralized exchange:
Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed nxtsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

So, basically this feature allows some one to generate a token on the NXT network that represents a Bitcoin or a Litecoin or essentially any commodity. Attached to these generated tokens is a "promise to pay" which give them value. These tokens can then be exchanged through the network.

Is the exchange that you describe incorporated into the feature? a user can create a token and place it on the market for open bidding? Is that the jest of what you're describing? Are these tokens divisible? Can they be generated in sets? Is the exchange to be part of the client? Sorry to hit you with so many questions:) Is there some place to find this info? I find this to be a fascinating idea.

my understanding is: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. (i think i counted the number of questions right )

idk what would be the place to find this info. this thread i think would be the best place. try playing with the test client, that'll help i suspect.

Hi again. I have been screwing around with this feature for a while to today,(mostly reading and watching vids about the topic) I tried your suggestion about using the test version but I am limited by my knowledge of computers and couldn't get the test client to work. I have found out a lot and while I would like to try out the test exchange, I think I have a decent understanding of the feature, so thanks for the help and info. I do how ever have a few more questions about the client that I wasn't able to find info on.

Once the exchange is operational there will be two clients, one for Forging coins and sending and receiving coins and then another for the exchange, Is this correct or will the exchange client incorporate all of these functions in one client? Are transactions that are done through the exchange processed on the same block chain as the currency? And are there fees associated with exchange transactions and If so how do they work (paid in currency or paid in the exchanged asset or some other way?)

I realize you are busy, so if there is a link you could suggest or a source of info that might help.....at any rate any info you might give would be appreciated and maybe answer someone else's  questions as well. And thanks again.

Transactions in the decentralized exchange are processed on the same blockchain as the currency. Yes there are fees, just like bitcoin you are bidding for inclusion, but probably there will be a hard coded minimum to prevent spam, probably it will be 1nxt or 0.1nxt. fees are payed in nxt.

I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by "bidding for inclusion". Let me sum up what I think you mean and you tell me if I am on the right track.

The fee is applied at the generation of the asset and the total fee is based upon the demand for the generation of the asset. Kind of like the alias feature; If two people want the same alias, high bidder wins. So if you create an asset that is unique then you would only be charge the coded minimum fee. Sound close? if my understanding is correct or close to correct, Then there are no transaction fees(i.e. fees  for trading assets). Is that so?

I have been playing with the feature but haven't really got to use it yet. I tried to create an asset and was denied because I had insufficient funds (no TestNXT). Overall I think it is a pretty awesome idea. I would like to see "Last Trade" pricing added to the main index of assets, and possibly index categories (So someone who is in the market for currencies could index only those types of marketed assets and not have to wade and search though other types of assets on the exchange), but those are just ideas for future upgrades. It will be pretty bad ass as it is once it is up... and it is really exiting to imagine what it will be. Thanks for the info on this topic.

Ok so yea there is a fee for generating an asset, thats separate from what i mean by bidding for inclusion. So when ever you send an asset from one person to another that transfer must be included in a block. that block has limited space and the author of the block gets to decide what transactions make it in a which don't. a rational self interested forger will put in the transactions that pay him the most first and leave out the ones that pay him less if the demand for space exceeds the supply of space. this is what i mean by bidding for inclusion.

yes i agree it is very excited. it could change the world in profoudn ways. you are welcome.

Ok. so then it is just like a coin transaction pretty much. You can choose to pay a higher fee for faster more assured processing. or a low minimum fee if you aren't in a hurry. I like that. I was wondering if there was something that anchored the NXT currency to the asset exchange. If some one could create an asset for a creation fee and trade that asset freely that would kind of be bad for network as people could bypass the base currency once they created the asset which could lead to fewer fees for running the network. So there would be no fees between trading parties (unless they wanted them) but a fee to the network. Which requires all asset traders to be vested (at least somewhat) in the base currency, thus adding more demand and more value to the base currency. Dammit that is smart.

[Anon136]

wall of text

Ok. so then it is just like a coin transaction pretty much. You can choose to pay a higher fee for faster more assured processing. or a low minimum fee if you aren't in a hurry. I like that. I was wondering if there was something that anchored the NXT currency to the asset exchange. If some one could create an asset for a creation fee and trade that asset freely that would kind of be bad for network as people could bypass the base currency once they created the asset which could lead to fewer fees for running the network. So there would be no fees between trading parties (unless they wanted them) but a fee to the network. Which requires all asset traders to be vested (at least somewhat) in the base currency, thus adding more demand and more value to the base currency. Dammit that is smart.

You got it exactly right.

[Jerical13]

Is there anyone working on reaching out to groups and organizations who might be interested in the benefits of the AE? Or any literature being developed to provide info about it? I don't mean to appear as a vulture, but with the bad light that has been cast upon private exchanges, the iron is hot. It may be a good time to put bugs in ears.... unless you think the software is still too underdeveloped to truly pitch the feature.... At any rate an info package could be put together; or several packages based on prospective users interests. If this is in the works, I can help. If it is not on the works, I can still help  Can't write computer program, but I am a fairly decent propaganda writer.

NXT UBER ALLES!!!

[Jerical13]

O.k. I think we are on the same page when it comes to the A.E. We are just seeing it from different perspective.

First, let me say that what the AE represents to me is free market. Not just a free market that someone tells you is a free market, and then manipulates the value of the market currency, or implies involuntary risks to your assets, (taxing you to fund bailouts), or legislates transaction customs.....ETC. But a truly free market. You or I or anyone alive has never seen or had the benefit of a free market in the sense of the free market that NXT has the potential to be. We have the chance to make it so. Maybe someday this NXT thread on Bitcoin forum will be in a archive some where and people will look back at it as a transcript for a convention of the start of something truly great.

Secondly, as I stated above, I think we see sort of eye to eye on a lot of the fundamentals of NXT, and that the differences regarding this topic are simple communication issues (as most differences are.)

That being said, the reason I think your Ideas on this topic are wrong is that they impose upon the Idea of NXT as a free market; and the problems that they are intended to solve won't be solved by their implementation.

First of I will argue the point you made about squatting. I do think that this is going to happen. People will use the opportunity to purchase domain names and profit by selling them. This may seem kind of ugly, and base, and put a smudgy appearance on the AE, but things like this are a part of a free market. Your line of thought that a 1000 nxt fee will prevent this is flawed in the sense that it assumes people who have the means to pay higher fees are above capitalizing on this opportunity to profit. People will still buy as many names as they can, and still demand the highest price for their sale that the market will bare; but the starting price is automatically going to be more than 1000 NXT, and their will be fewer people holding more in demand domain names, as entry level competition for the names will have been restricted by a price that wasn't dictated by the market. There is going to be a rat race for domain names; a low fee makes it a more fair, more inclusive and more attractive race to get into. No one will pay CRAZY prices to buy a domain name. They will pay what they feel it is worth.

Secondly, restricting the AE's use to traditional assets is a violation of free market fundamentals and limits the ways the AE can be used and by whom it can be used by. This will limit the total usability and usage of the AE and make it a less versatile  tool. The only restrictions that should be imposed are the ones that are needed  for the secure functionality of the AE. If these functional and security restraints don't restrict an asset that is not a traditional asset from being traded, there should be no "sent from above" restriction applied that would limit the market. If the functional and security restraints don't limit the ways in which people can conduct commerce freely amongst themselves. There should be no such restriction imposed by any person or committee of persons. This would eliminate, to a certain degree, creative and innovative uses for the AE.

Thirdly, There is no financial need in the fee being high, as the cost in registering an asset, to the system is the same as all other transaction. The High fee cost is an artificial price, and the fee will, in the highest probability, end up in the account of someone who has 50 million NXT. The effects of this are exponential, when coupled with the effects of limiting innovation and creativity.

Fourthly, as far as your comment "sell it on Ebay" , I was invisioning more of a "Craigslist". If your Ebay suggestion was an attempt to imply that people selling  things in this manor I suggested selling comic books would turn the AE in to an unmanageable, unnavigable clusterfuck, then you should brace yourself; because even if it were not used in this fashion, if it is in any way successful, The AE as it functions now is going to be a clusterfuck. And I don't think the "Tiered" system will prevent this. If the AE is going to be manageable and navigable it will have to be structured differently. High issue fees aren't by any means, structural improvements. High fees and restructuring (tiers) are two different solutions to the problem of the short comings of the functionality of the AE. The high fee solution is a market fixing, ineffectual, demographiclly exclusive, free market restrictive, quick fix bandaid, that resembles the two party government approach to problem solving. The restructuring solution, while not instantly gratifying, is a real solution. And while I do somewhat agree with the idea of the "tier" system suggestion, I don't think that in the long run, even that will be effective. (I do have some ideas regarding this, but that is another topic, the topic at hand is the fixing of issue fees).

In short, I am for this AE of ours being a free market. The first free market that anyone alive will ever have access to. So that means I am for anything that facilitates open and unrestricted trade and commerce between anyone and everyone. And I am opposed to anything that is contrary to this, including fees not set by that free market, and socialist gateways to that market, or any other constraint or restriction that is not required for the AE to function securely.

And I also feel that all of the arguments that you sited in favor of the higher fee, can be solved with restructuring the AE, and making it even more of a free market and facilitating more free trade and commerce; And this should be the area of focus, and that any future marketing strategies have this as a top consideration. The fees will do nothing to solve these problems.

   

[sepehr]

Something that need to complete Asset Exchange is Company account or Crypto Company.

I have mentioned it several times but not yet paid enough attention:

We can arrange for a company account!
We can have two type of accounts, Personal accounts and company accounts like any Bank.
Personal accounts can act just like normal currency accounts. One person have the total control over the account while he/she have it's credentials.
But Company accounts can include several personal accounts. each personal account is a member of board of company and can participate in decisions.
Company board members can decide how the payments from company account should be made.
They will vote for a logical order that showing how payments from company account should be made.

For example:

Payments from Company Account(CA) can be confirmed if "Personal Account A"(PS-A) confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A and PS-B" confirm it.
Payments from CA can be confirmed if "PS-A or (PS-B and PS-C)" confirm it.

So in this case the system can:

1-Form a company in virtual world.
2-The company board can take decisions according to the voting system we implemented separately for a "logical order".
3-payments from company can be made according to combination of Personal entities defined in "logical order"
4-Members of board at anytime can change the "logical order" of company so they can change the CEO of company as they wish.
5-The company after forming can announce Assets in Asset exchange feature. so everyone can be a stake holder of an asset of company. And receive dividends.

So this Company account can generate Assets for itself and offer to public.

It's just a new Idea aroused in my mind!

I think every one that implement this idea in his currency will have the future!

[ASIC-8Tile]

Your line of thought that a 1000 nxt fee will prevent this is flawed in the sense that it assumes people who have the means to pay higher fees are above capitalizing on this opportunity to profit. People will still buy as many names as they can, and still demand the highest price for their sale that the market will bare; but the starting price is automatically going to be more than 1000 NXT, and their will be fewer people holding more in demand domain names, as entry level competition for the names will have been restricted by a price that wasn't dictated by the market. There is going to be a rat race for domain names; a low fee makes it a more fair, more inclusive and more attractive race to get into. No one will pay CRAZY prices to buy a domain name. They will pay what they feel it is worth.

Secondly, restricting the AE's use to traditional assets is a violation of free market fundamentals and limits the ways the AE can be used and by whom it can be used by. This will limit the total usability and usage of the AE and make it a less versatile  tool. The only restrictions that should be imposed are the ones that are needed  for the secure functionality of the AE. If these functional and security restraints don't restrict an asset that is not a traditional asset from being traded, there should be no "sent from above" restriction applied that would limit the market. If the functional and security restraints don't limit the ways in which people can conduct commerce freely amongst themselves. There should be no such restriction imposed by any person or committee of persons. This would eliminate, to a certain degree, creative and innovative uses for the AE.

Thirdly, There is no financial need in the fee being high, as the cost in registering an asset, to the system is the same as all other transaction. The High fee cost is an artificial price, and the fee will, in the highest probability, end up in the account of someone who has 50 million NXT. The effects of this are exponential, when coupled with the effects of limiting innovation and creativity.

Fourthly, as far as your comment "sell it on Ebay" , I was invisioning more of a "Craigslist". If your Ebay suggestion was an attempt to imply that people selling  things in this manor I suggested selling comic books would turn the AE in to an unmanageable, unnavigable clusterfuck, then you should brace yourself; because even if it were not used in this fashion, if it is in any way successful, The AE as it functions now is going to be a clusterfuck. And I don't think the "Tiered" system will prevent this. If the AE is going to be manageable and navigable it will have to be structured differently. High issue fees aren't by any means, structural improvements. High fees and restructuring (tiers) are two different solutions to the problem of the short comings of the functionality of the AE. The high fee solution is a market fixing, ineffectual, demographiclly exclusive, free market restrictive, quick fix bandaid, that resembles the two party government approach to problem solving. The restructuring solution, while not instantly gratifying, is a real solution. And while I do somewhat agree with the idea of the "tier" system suggestion, I don't think that in the long run, even that will be effective. (I do have some ideas regarding this, but that is another topic, the topic at hand is the fixing of issue fees).

In short, I am for this AE of ours being a free market. The first free market that anyone alive will ever have access to. So that means I am for anything that facilitates open and unrestricted trade and commerce between anyone and everyone. And I am opposed to anything that is contrary to this, including fees not set by that free market, and socialist gateways to that market, or any other constraint or restriction that is not required for the AE to function securely.

And I also feel that all of the arguments that you sited in favor of the higher fee, can be solved with restructuring the AE, and making it even more of a free market and facilitating more free trade and commerce; And this should be the area of focus, and that any future marketing strategies have this as a top consideration. The fees will do nothing to solve these problems.

Great comments Jerical13.
I would like to add my perspective.
1000NXT now is not very much as a starting point. The reason I state this is if you look at what other "centralized" AE such as btct.co at the time and some others, were charging 5 BTC at the time. Flat fee. Quite expensive at today's BTC value comparison.
I think that any fees that are charged for a listing in the AE are distributed percentages among forging and/or possibly lottery/random/development accounts between accounts taking into consideration a weighting factor such as activity, etc... and any other ideas others might have.
A re-adjustment of pricing according to some kind of value from BTC etc...? Kind of like how the PoW algorithm adjusts accordingly to the hash rate, etc...
Thank you for sharing.
Just some ideas...

[Anon136]

sorry i know i need to read that comment and reply to it jerical13 its just very very large. i haven't forgotten about it though.

[Jerical13]

sorry i know i need to read that comment and reply to it jerical13 its just very very large. i haven't forgotten about it though.

Its's cool. take your time. That's why I wanted to converse on a separate form from the main thread. Sorry about the length. I find it really difficult to not express myself fully, to forsake misunderstandings. At your leisure.....I would like to hear your thoughts though so try not to forget

[Jerical13]

[/quote]

Great comments Jerical13.
I would like to add my perspective.
1000NXT now is not very much as a starting point. The reason I state this is if you look at what other "centralized" AE such as btct.co at the time and some others, were charging 5 BTC at the time. Flat fee. Quite expensive at today's BTC value comparison.
I think that any fees that are charged for a listing in the AE are distributed percentages among forging and/or possibly lottery/random/development accounts between accounts taking into consideration a weighting factor such as activity, etc... and any other ideas others might have.
A re-adjustment of pricing according to some kind of value from BTC etc...? Kind of like how the PoW algorithm adjusts accordingly to the hash rate, etc...
Thank you for sharing.
Just some ideas...


[/quote]

With the transparent forging of NXT the cost of transactions and running the network is reduced. As I sited above, it creates no additional cost for a transaction that registers a domain name (unless I have misinterpreted the information) than any other transaction, so the cost factor isn't a valid argument. If the cost per transaction is the same, there is no justification for the minimum fee to be different. There may be an argument that the influx of people rushing to register and squat names will overload the block chain, but that is where the "bidding for inclusion" would hold trump over transaction priority, and by that association, cost of domain registeration. If some one wants to be sure to get a specific domain name, they might be more inclined to opt to pay a higher fee.

[nemabcd]

10391254739172632001
I like to try some testnxt,thanks

[nxtsky]

Why I can't issue an asset which name is already exist? I got a error as "xcp" is already used.

It's by design.

I don't get it. As "xcp" for example, Some one has issued "xcp" already. And I have some "xcp" and want to sell it. I can't sell it if I didn't  issue it, unless I use another name. Why? I mean all the same thing should be under the same name.

because BobsXCPTokens are a different thing from NxtskysXCPTokens. Just issue them like this NxtskysXCP.

Thanks, as a newbie, I don't completely understand how AE works. Is there any paper used to explain the AE works in detail? The NXT wiki is to simply too describe AE system.

ill just explain it to you right now. Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed netsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

Thanks, I basically understand how AE works. It can be used to issue asset, and we must trust the asset owner. If the asset owner disappear, the people who buy the asset would lost their money.It is ideal for the issue of shares. but not useful for the average person. Am I right? 

[Anon136]

Why I can't issue an asset which name is already exist? I got a error as "xcp" is already used.

It's by design.

I don't get it. As "xcp" for example, Some one has issued "xcp" already. And I have some "xcp" and want to sell it. I can't sell it if I didn't  issue it, unless I use another name. Why? I mean all the same thing should be under the same name.

because BobsXCPTokens are a different thing from NxtskysXCPTokens. Just issue them like this NxtskysXCP.

Thanks, as a newbie, I don't completely understand how AE works. Is there any paper used to explain the AE works in detail? The NXT wiki is to simply too describe AE system.

ill just explain it to you right now. Exchanges like nxt, ripple, and mastercoin work with an idea called colored coins. So with a bitcoin any one bitcoin is the same as any other bitcoin. They are what we call fungible. Colored coins are intentionally not fungible. They are intentionally distinct and different from one another. Colored coins have a value attached to them. So for example, speaking in abstractions here, a colored nxt may have the value attached to it of "Nxtsky promises to pay 1 btc to who ever sends him this token, signed netsky". Now that token can be traded on a market.

Lets say betty wants to trade litecoin for bitcoin. She sends litecoin to "hanks litecoin gateway" with a message attached "bettys nxt address:blablabla". Hank will issue "X hankLTCTokens" and sends them to bettys nxt address. Betty uses these to fill the highest bid for on their orderbook thus gaining nxt. Next betty uses her nxt to fill the lowest ask on the orderbook for nxtskysXCPTokens. She sends her nxtskysXCPTokens to nxtskys nxt address with a message attached "bettys xcp address:blablabla". Betty waits for the xcp to arrive.

its obvious to most at first the disadvantages of what i just described. Its very complex compared to sending your coins to cryptsy but this is the cost of decentralization and decentralization comes with its own rewards. at some point in the future you will not just be buying any old random token. You will buy the ones issued by the guy who lives down the street so you can go there and pick them up in person.

Thanks, I basically understand how AE works. It can be used to issue asset, and we must trust the asset owner. If the asset owner disappear, the people who buy the asset would lost their money.It is ideal for the issue of shares. but not useful for the average person. Am I right? 

that person would have to build up some reputation but if he could do that than it would be useful to him.

[Sapphire]

Hey guys!

I want to join you testing the Asset Exchange feature. Can you send me some testNXT?
Here's my test acc: 3073766067894120566

[JKBtCn]

I received some testnet NXT earlier but made the mistake of changing the fee amount from 1,000 to 10,000 when creating an asset to exchange!

Q: so this fee, would it go to the account that forges the block? If so, that's a lovely payout!

Would love to keep playing: Any more testnet NXT?

Thanks: 12745592950286399800

[qq2536007339]

I want test,here is my account number:18347252788360169341,thanks!

[Isildur23]

Can i get some testnxt?

8619009819187075604

Thanks in advance!