Is Democracy a bad idea?

[SgtSpike]

I never understood why the conservative party names themselves the Republicans, whereas the liberal party names themselves the Democrats.  Yet, the US is a Republic, not a Democracy.  Ironic...

It's an political artifact from the 1800s.

They were originally one party, the Democratic Republican party, founded by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison in 1792, in opposition to the Federalist party led by Alexander Hamilton.

They split up in the 1820s into the Jackson Men (led by Andrew Jackson, which became the Democratic party in 1844) and the National Republican party (Led by Henry Clay and John Quincy Adams, which was absorbed by the Whig party in 1832 after Clay was defeated in the presidential election, which then became the modern Republican party in 1854).

Interesting, thanks for the history.  Didn't know much about that.

DEMOCRACY IS BAD BUT I REFUSE TO OFFER UP AN ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM WHICH WOULD BE FAIRER - Every single poster on this forum, to be perfectly honest

I don't think you want a system to be completely, 100% fair.  But I'll have to think about that... sometimes, the best thing for society isn't what is fair.

Regardless, a republic is the best system a government can use.  A true democracy would allow media to control the government - they could sway the people however they wanted just by publicizing garbage.

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[netrin]

Democracy sounds like a great idea. Can you tell me where to find it?

[the joint]

This isn't an argument for good and bad, however...

Democracy -->  filtered through bell curve --> average decisions

[Elwar]

DEMOCRACY IS BAD BUT I REFUSE TO OFFER UP AN ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM WHICH WOULD BE FAIRER - Every single poster on this forum, to be perfectly honest

Alternative system offered which would be fairer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46130.0

[onesalt]

DEMOCRACY IS BAD BUT I REFUSE TO OFFER UP AN ALTERNATIVE SYSTEM WHICH WOULD BE FAIRER - Every single poster on this forum, to be perfectly honest

Alternative system offered which would be fairer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46130.0

This isn't an alternative system it's a democratic choice where in addition  you can buy more votes and untracably bribe voters, which makes it a terrible fucking system since the person with the most money will invariably win, or at least do far far better. Additionally the addition of a "time element" is just stupid and dumb. All it does is prolongs the results of a legitimate vote (if 51% of people voted for something that means the majority of people wanted it, hth) for no obvious reason, which just makes governing by that system both inefficient and stupid. inefficient

I don't think you want a system to be completely, 100% fair.  But I'll have to think about that... sometimes, the best thing for society isn't what is fair.

Regardless, a republic is the best system a government can use.  A true democracy would allow media to control the government - they could sway the people however they wanted just by publicizing garbage.

so what you're saying is that because the media can influence people the system itself is at fault? That's a terrible argument, since it's not democracy or the voting system at fault but some other, third party.

Oh also, a republic is a type of democracy, Infact, the US is already Federal Republic, and most EU countries are a parliamentary republic.

[Elwar]

Voting has ended.

Democracy is a bad idea: 11 votes
Democracy is not a bad idea: 9 votes

If you like democracy then you must accept the outcome.

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

[FreeTrade]

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

There's no free speech in your democracy?

[NghtRppr]

Voting has ended.

Democracy is a bad idea: 11 votes
Democracy is not a bad idea: 9 votes

If you like democracy then you must accept the outcome.

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

LOL and I didn't even vote like usual...

[Elwar]

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

There's no free speech in your democracy?

Not unless you want to go against the majority. Which would be un-democratic.

[Hawker]

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

There's no free speech in your democracy?

Not unless you want to go against the majority. Which would be un-democratic.

Um no.  Democracy is a free market in ideas with everyone looking to win votes.

[RodeoX]

I think it is a good idea. Since the bronze age democracy has seen several important cultural flowering periods. These would have likely not happened without the input of citizens via democracy. But of course the devil is in the details. some governments around the world can only be called "democracies" if you are using air quotes.

[Elwar]

There should no longer be any support of democracy on this forum because it has been determined a bad idea by the majority.

Q E D

There's no free speech in your democracy?

Not unless you want to go against the majority. Which would be un-democratic.

Um no.  Democracy is a free market in ideas with everyone looking to win votes.

And if you do not win a majority of votes...does that mean that your idea is not good?

[FredericBastiat]

I think it is a good idea. Since the bronze age democracy has seen several important cultural flowering periods. These would have likely not happened without the input of citizens via democracy. But of course the devil is in the details. some governments around the world can only be called "democracies" if you are using air quotes.

Ha. That was a good one. When we start talking about democratic justice vs. justice we should just apply the air quotes.

[airquote]democratic[/airquote] justice is not justice.

Or better yet use '[]' and '[/]'. The more air the better, as in nothing there.

[FreeTrade]

And if you do not win a majority of votes...does that mean that your idea is not good?

It means it didn't win a majority of votes. You're still free to go on believing it and advocating for it. That's free speech.

[Hawker]

And if you do not win a majority of votes...does that mean that your idea is not good?

It means it didn't win a majority of votes. You're still free to go on believing it and advocating for it. That's free speech.

In fact, its recommended you do keep advocating for it.  If you try to persuade people of your ideas, you often improve the ideas and even if you don't get what you want, you often get people part of the way towards your position.

Unless of course your idea is bonkers.  For example some people advocate that they should not have to pay any tax.  Other people advocate state ownership of all property.  The less time you spent advocating ideas like that in elections, the more time you have for watching sport on TV and that's likely to be more productive.

[Elwar]

In fact, its recommended you do keep advocating for it.  If you try to persuade people of your ideas, you often improve the ideas and even if you don't get what you want, you often get people part of the way towards your position.

So if your idea does not win a majority vote then you must improve your idea?

[Hawker]

In fact, its recommended you do keep advocating for it.  If you try to persuade people of your ideas, you often improve the ideas and even if you don't get what you want, you often get people part of the way towards your position.

So if your idea does not win a majority vote then you must improve your idea?

Or improve your presentation of it.  Or sometimes simply times change and people wake up to the value of your idea.  And sometimes, you have to accept that it may be 50 years hard work for your idea to be accepted and knuckle down.  Look at Ron Paul and Ralph Nader.  Neither will ever be President but both are committed to a lifetime of fighting for their ideals.

Just because you lose an election doesn't mean you are wrong and have to give up.  

[FreeTrade]

So if your idea does not win a majority vote then you must improve your idea?

Nope. That's not required either. You're quite free to continue believing in and advocating your bonkers idea.

[hmongotaku]

Democracy is not a bad thing. It's republics that are bad. The fate of the nation in the hands of a few. I wouldn't mind if these guys are like Einstiens but they're just soiled rich frat kids.

Those pommey fat caeser type people eating up all the pizza and deciding the fate of rome ushering commands without a whim of thought. Something we have here and now in the US. Rich politics helping rich people get richer, just preying on 3rd world country for their resources.  Our 2 party system playing the blame game. America fears too much socialism and communism. But we have something worst: Fascism. When we can't have sunflowers in our backyard and pit-pull as pets. When we need to be told what to think, how to ask and what to do.

[Hawker]

There is no such thing as democracy in the real world. It is an abstract ideal that can't be upheld by corrupt filthy humans.

You could say the same about monarchy and authoritarianism.  The question is whether democracy is preferable to the alternatives.